Coach Fages and the coaching group

[marooned]

I really didn't like Fages commenting on Hawthorn's coaching position in the after match presser. I would have liked one of the journalists to have asked "where has the teams intensity gone since the Geelong match ?" A bit too much spin in his pressers lately is frustrating me

 

[Dalions]

I really didn't like Fages commenting on Hawthorn's coaching position in the after match presser. I would have liked one of the journalists to have asked "where has the teams intensity gone since the Geelong match ?" A bit too much spin in his pressers lately is frustrating me

I think he just answered a question didn’t he?

 

[Mighty Lions]

Look at our injury list last year in comparison to this year's. I don't know what exactly happened, but it can't be a coincidence that our injury list started to rise the moment Griffiths left. And Noble is a top quality coach. You only have to look at what he has done to North to see that.

How about acknowledgement that Daniher has played every game this year rather than the terrible times he's had over the 3 seasons? Fluke or credit to our medico's? How about finally getting Cockatoo in a position to play seniors again? Fluke or credit to our medico's again? Rayner & Hippy's ACL's along with Dizzy's shoulder have nothing to do with our medical staff. Not sure what evidence you have that makes you believe Griffiths leaving has had a negative effect.
Noble was footy manager, not a coach or coach's assistant nor a strategy coach. I have no doubt him leaving was a shame but not the negative effect you are intimating. You, more than most on here are quick to throw stones at our coaches. I for one believe our game day effort by 6-8 players is the reason we have struggled of late. Put a rocket up their bums this week and I am sure you will see us come away with a comfortable win.

 

[briztoon]

^ good point. I would also like to add that Fagan isn't the only reason to our rise. Saying Fagan is the reason for our success would be insulting our physio team, our coaching staff and our support network. We rose to the top because Fagan was surrounded by brilliant people that made him become better. During the off season, we lost critical members in all aspects of our club and that has had an effect on us. Look at our rising injury list after our head physio guy left for Melbourne. Look at our on field performance after Daly moved up and Noble left. All of this has brought us down and I'm with the soft cap decrease, I'm actually unsure if we will be able to fix it. We're already struggling to pay the people at the club, so the thought of adding better people to our club seems unfathomable. I'm not sure as to where we are in our premiership window, but I'll know next year. And the club will too. And if we're in the same position or in an even worse position, changes would have to be made. It might not be Fagan, but rather those around him.

Can you tell us what Noble’s day to day role was with club, especially his role within the coaching group?

 

[martinson]

How about acknowledgement that Daniher has played every game this year rather than the terrible times he's had over the 3 seasons? Fluke or credit to our medico's? How about finally getting Cockatoo in a position to play seniors again? Fluke or credit to our medico's again? Rayner & Hippy's ACL's along with Dizzy's shoulder have nothing to do with our medical staff. Not sure what evidence you have that makes you believe Griffiths leaving has had a negative effect.
Noble was footy manager, not a coach or coach's assistant nor a strategy coach. I have no doubt him leaving was a shame but not the negative effect you are intimating. You, more than most on here are quick to throw stones at our coaches. I for one believe our game day effort by 6-8 players is the reason we have struggled of late. Put a rocket up their bums this week and I am sure you will see us come away with a comfortable win.

100%.

We've copped injuries, we have a few good players out of form and we've dropped off our intensity. It doesn't take much of a drop off in intensity to make a big difference on the scoreboard.

We had a golden run with injuries. Everyone knows that doesn't last forever.

 

[royboys4eva]

It will be interesting to see how Fagan deals with the lack of effort from some players. Let's be frank we all know who most of us are referring too. Daniher and Cameron have given next to no forward pressure in most games this season. You could count on one hand how many tackles Daniher has laid this season. Joe may well say that's not what I was recruited for .. but once you run onto he field your required to do your the one percenters as well. I saw on the weekend both him and Charlie within a few metres of a defender with the ball and both just watched him run off with no effort to chase or apply a tackle. it's terrible look.

Our game plan revolves around getting it inside 50 and then trapping it in there or forcing a dump kick out and having a wall of players waiting for the dump kick. Right now the ball just streams out with no pressure and as a result we can't structure up behind the ball properly.

For that reason alone I would get Tom Berry back into the side and just tell him to tackle/harrass. Zorko had a huge last qtr on Sunday be he was barely noticeable for 3 qtrs. Play him in the forward 50 where he can make things happen and keep the ball locked in thru pressure if he can't win the ball around the ground. McCluggage really needs to be playing on the ball 100% now.

It feels right now at this point that Fagan has to do something to stop this rapid decline. It may be as simple as a few small positional changes or team selection or the problem may be much deeper - certainly getting Gardiner and Adams back would improve us by a 3/4 goals.

 

[martinson]

It will be interesting to see how Fagan deals with the lack of effort from some players. Let's be frank we all know who most of us are referring too. Daniher and Cameron have given next to no forward pressure in most games this season. You could count on one hand how many tackles Daniher has laid this season. Joe may well say that's not what I was recruited for .. but once you run onto he field your required to do your the one percenters as well. I saw on the weekend both him and Charlie within a few metres of a defender with the ball and both just watched him run off with no effort to chase or apply a tackle. it's terrible look.

Our game plan revolves around getting it inside 50 and then trapping it in there or forcing a dump kick out and having a wall of players waiting for the dump kick. Right now the ball just streams out with no pressure and as a result we can't structure up behind the ball properly.

For that reason alone I would get Tom Berry back into the side and just tell him to tackle/harrass. Zorko had a huge last qtr on Sunday be he was barely noticeable for 3 qtrs. Play him in the forward 50 where he can make things happen and keep the ball locked in thru pressure if he can't win the ball around the ground. McCluggage really needs to be playing on the ball 100% now.

It feels right now at this point that Fagan has to do something to stop this rapid decline. It may be as simple as a few small positional changes or team selection or the problem may be much deeper - certainly getting Gardiner and Adams back would improve us by a 3/4 goals.

I want the Charlie back who ran 40m flat out to run a guy down on the wing last year.

Oscar is chasing harder than Charlie and Joe right now.

 

[jackess]

Look at our injury list last year in comparison to this year's. I don't know what exactly happened, but it can't be a coincidence that our injury list started to rise the moment Griffiths left. And Noble is a top quality coach. You only have to look at what he has done to North to see that.

Answerth and Berry's injuries are concerning but not so worried about the others. Plus we've done well rehabbing most of the perennially injured players we've traded in

Can't do anything about ACLs, it was about the 4th time Dizzys shoulder has popped out too, a few ankles which are just bad luck

 

[ForzaRoma]

Can you tell us what Noble’s day to day role was with club, especially his role within the coaching group?

Well for one thing, Noble was always in the coaches box with Fagan during Fagan's first few years in the club, thus helping Fagan form the play-style he wants for the club. Furthermore, Noble's North Melbourne team plays a lot like we did. Especially during the 2017-2019 season. Saying Noble had no effect on Fagan's coaching is silly and he is obviously a big loss for the club.

 

[martinson]

Well for one thing, Noble was always in the coaches box with Fagan during Fagan's first few years in the club, thus helping Fagan form the play-style he wants for the club. Furthermore, Noble's North Melbourne team plays a lot like we did. Especially during the 2017-2019 season. Saying Noble had no effect on Fagan's coaching is silly and he is obviously a big loss for the club.

OK he's a big loss.

He's gone.

So ?? We can't do much about it.

No one's irreplaceable. We've done the best we can with who was available .

 

[ForzaRoma]

OK he's a big loss.

He's gone.

So ?? We can't do much about it.

No one's irreplaceable. We've done the best we can with who was available .

I never said we should do anything about it. In fact, i said i'm not sure if it's even possible to do anything about it given the soft cap squeeze.

 

[T Rick]

Fages has been a godsend for our club. Consider how bad we were prior to his arrival - and this is not bashing Leppa - he had a poor list and tried a game plan that didn't stand up with such a list. But the minute Fagan walked in we have become a much more professional club and Noble/Swann have also played their part as has Dany Daly.

Fagan has in his time at Brisbane made the Lions a destination club and not a club who lost plays every season. He has made us stronger every season and played an attractive style of game. Getting Hodge to the club was a masterstroke. In fact I think we need to look at getting Hodge more involved, but that might not be so easy as he appears to enjoy his TV role.

I always felt Noble's departure was going to be a massive loss. He filled so many roles and did them all exceptionally.

Up until this season we had a small injury list which enabled us to get the best 22 on the ground most weeks. That can't be undersold. It helps you build unity and continuity. This year we have lost Rayner (Pre Season) Berry for most of the season - Gardiner for most of the Season - Neale has missed games and never been 100% and looks utterly banged up. Hipwood is now gone for 12 months and Adams is now out for up to a month. Every club has injuries but it's hard to win a flag with so much quality either out or missing for most of the season. Look at the Demons injury list - barely a player out. It's a massive reason for their strong season.

My only concern with Chris Fagan is that he often sticks fat with players who are struggling - this could also have been a strength is previous seasons as he is showing belief in his players. But I look at team right now and wonder whether the likes of Grant Birchall should be in the side? Perhaps we don't have the players to replace him? Ah Chee has been lucky to stay in the side. When your winning you can get away with no changes but when your playing like we have been for over a month I think you need to start making a statement.

The Game Plan has stood up more often than not and when we are at absolute best and ripping in and applying pressure all over the ground like we did against Richmond in last years Final and against the Cats this year we look fantastic. Unfortunately we can't sustain it and it's a demanding game plan and right now we look like a side who's extracted everything out of themselves and have very little left in the tank and add the injuries on top of that and suddenly we are 4/5 goals off our best.

No doubt the midfield is not quick and right now not spreading from contests. It's a big worry and I feel like outside of next year our window might shut quickly if we don't start getting some more pace into the side. We need to hit draft hard this year - we have neglected basically for 2 years.

We need to trust Fagan for what he has achieved so far and from his reaction/spray he gave the players the other day I think he is just as frustrated and perplexed. It's been a crazy two years with Covid and although we had the better off it - travel wise last year, this year we have had a very interrupted season and I think that's played it part.

Exceptional post!

 

[briztoon]

Well for one thing, Noble was always in the coaches box with Fagan during Fagan's first few years in the club, thus helping Fagan form the play-style he wants for the club. Furthermore, Noble's North Melbourne team plays a lot like we did. Especially during the 2017-2019 season. Saying Noble had no effect on Fagan's coaching is silly and he is obviously a big loss for the club.

And Fagan was in the coaches box at Hawthorn, when he was head of football there.

There’s articles interviewing Fagan what his role was when he was in the box at Hawthorn, and what Noble did in the Lions box.

But that doesn’t really mean anything when Fagan coached from the sidelines last year, while Noble stayed in the coaches box.

Just own up to the fact you have no idea what Noble’s role was, when he was head of football here.

Fair chance Noble picked up a lot watching Fagan between 2017 and 2019.

I’m pretty confident Noble had very little influence on our day to day coaching, or game plan.

Yes, Noble and Fagan share similar football philosophies, but they both brought these to the club.

But that doesn’t mean Noble had a big influence on our game plan.

I’m quite confident Noble stayed out of the coaching and tactical side of things, unless he was specifically asked by Fagan.

 

[Bjorn Again]

And Fagan was in the coaches box at Hawthorn, when he was head of football there.

There’s articles interviewing Fagan what his role was when he was in the box at Hawthorn, and what Noble did in the Lions box.

But that doesn’t really mean anything when Fagan coached from the sidelines last year, while Noble stayed in the coaches box.

Just own up to the fact you have no idea what Noble’s role was, when he was head of football here.

Fair chance Noble picked up a lot watching Fagan between 2017 and 2019.

I’m pretty confident Noble had very little influence on our day to day coaching, or game plan.

Yes, Noble and Fagan share similar football philosophies, but they both brought these to the club.

But that doesn’t mean Noble had a big influence on our game plan.

I’m quite confident Noble stayed out of the coaching and tactical side of things, unless he was specifically asked by Fagan.

The very same week he took over goal kicking coaching we ended our horrible run of behinds > goals.
Part of the reason Norf wanted him.

 

[marooned]

I think he just answered a question didn’t he?

Yes he did, could have just said I'm the coach of the Lions and it's inappropriate for me to comment.

 

[Jivlain]

And Fagan was in the coaches box at Hawthorn, when he was head of football there.

There’s articles interviewing Fagan what his role was when he was in the box at Hawthorn, and what Noble did in the Lions box.

But that doesn’t really mean anything when Fagan coached from the sidelines last year, while Noble stayed in the coaches box.

Just own up to the fact you have no idea what Noble’s role was, when he was head of football here.

Fair chance Noble picked up a lot watching Fagan between 2017 and 2019.

I’m pretty confident Noble had very little influence on our day to day coaching, or game plan.

Yes, Noble and Fagan share similar football philosophies, but they both brought these to the club.

But that doesn’t mean Noble had a big influence on our game plan.

I’m quite confident Noble stayed out of the coaching and tactical side of things, unless he was specifically asked by Fagan.

That doesn't make much sense tbh. Coaching from the sideline means you're fundamentally dependent on the coaches in the box who can see the overall picture of the ground - you do it if what you're bringing as head coach is the more the relationships rather than the tactical management.

 

[briztoon]

The very same week he took over goal kicking coaching we ended our horrible run of behinds > goals.
Part of the reason Norf wanted him.

I’ve never seen Noble out there coaching the boys.

The only time I have seen Noble at a training session is when there have been sponsors or family there, or the recruiting team has been up from Melbourne, and they’re watching training.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

And Fagan was in the coaches box at Hawthorn, when he was head of football there.

There’s articles interviewing Fagan what his role was when he was in the box at Hawthorn, and what Noble did in the Lions box.

But that doesn’t really mean anything when Fagan coached from the sidelines last year, while Noble stayed in the coaches box.

Just own up to the fact you have no idea what Noble’s role was, when he was head of football here.

Fair chance Noble picked up a lot watching Fagan between 2017 and 2019.

I’m pretty confident Noble had very little influence on our day to day coaching, or game plan.

Yes, Noble and Fagan share similar football philosophies, but they both brought these to the club.

But that doesn’t mean Noble had a big influence on our game plan.

I’m quite confident Noble stayed out of the coaching and tactical side of things, unless he was specifically asked by Fagan.

If Noble is sitting next to Fagan in the coaches box then it would be rediculous to assume that Fages and him didn't use each other as sounding boards, especialy when were playing ok but still lost games easily.
Would of been a lot of support to stick with the plan.
It looked like Danny Daley stepped up in as part of that game day tactical interaction or maybe that's what he always did.
Also got to give Noble a bit of credit in the bank as he's been coaching in the past as well.
I agree to your sentiment though , his departure is not why we are stalling.
It's other reasons and multi faceted. Injuries , game style.
We have moved onto a different gameplan since Fages early years to, what another clever poster on here said , an unsustainable game style.
You simply cannot play finals intensity crash bash footy every week all year.
Year after year. Need to play more bruise free footy , spread , run, more uncontested.
That doesn't mean when there is a contest you don't go hard or refuse to tackle , that's expected.
It's about what we do when we have it.

I'll put it another way.
Take squash players .
One guy will run all day hard and fast , the other guy , bit over weight , slow on his feet.
Still wins though.
Why?
He commands the center of court , runs his opponent around the court untill he can deliver a unreturnable shot, simply tactically out plays his opponent.
I feel like we play like the hard and fast guy , even when we are in form and winning. need to play smarter.

No offence to people over weight especialy that prick that used to hit the ball into the back corner all the time.

 

[M Malice]

I'll put it another way.
Take squash players .
One guy will run all day hard and fast , the other guy , bit over weight , slow on his feet.
Still wins though.
Why?
He commands the center of court , runs his opponent around the court untill he can deliver a unreturnable shot, simply tactically out plays his opponent.
I feel like we play like the hard and fast guy , even when we are in form and winning. need to play smarter.

No offence to people over weight especialy that prick that used to hit the ball into the back corner all the time.

Ah fond memories, I used to play competition squash in my younger days... 40 years ago now , absolutely loved it, the most enjoyable sport I have ever played, I really enjoyed the fitness required to play at a reasonable level, haven't had so much as a hit of it for 30+ years.

There used to be squash courts all over the place in Brisbane when I was playing, you don't see many around any longer.

 

[martinson]

If Noble is sitting next to Fagan in the coaches box then it would be rediculous to assume that Fages and him didn't use each other as sounding boards, especialy when were playing ok but still lost games easily.
Would of been a lot of support to stick with the plan.
It looked like Danny Daley stepped up in as part of that game day tactical interaction or maybe that's what he always did.
Also got to give Noble a bit of credit in the bank as he's been coaching in the past as well.
I agree to your sentiment though , his departure is not why we are stalling.
It's other reasons and multi faceted. Injuries , game style.
We have moved onto a different gameplan since Fages early years to, what another clever poster on here said , an unsustainable game style.
You simply cannot play finals intensity crash bash footy every week all year.
Year after year. Need to play more bruise free footy , spread , run, more uncontested.
That doesn't mean when there is a contest you don't go hard or refuse to tackle , that's expected.
It's about what we do when we have it.

I'll put it another way.
Take squash players .
One guy will run all day hard and fast , the other guy , bit over weight , slow on his feet.
Still wins though.
Why?
He commands the center of court , runs his opponent around the court untill he can deliver a unreturnable shot, simply tactically out plays his opponent.
I feel like we play like the hard and fast guy , even when we are in form and winning. need to play smarter.

No offence to people over weight especialy that prick that used to hit the ball into the back corner all the time.

We look tired and are maybe finding it harder to get up for the gameplan every week.

It's a plausible theory.

 

[jackess]

Mark Stone said on the road deal his main responsibilities were ball movement and team defence. Also blamed our performances more on the players effort than the game plan.

Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

29

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

said the game plan hasn't changed much over 3 years

 

[martinson]

Mark Stone said on the road deal his main responsibilities were ball movement and team defence. Also blamed our performances more on the players effort than the game plan.

Harris Andrews said the game plan hasn't changed much over 3 years

Looking at the way we play week to week there's no doubt about that . When we lose or don't play well we aren't or can't implement it as effectively.

 

[mpal6]

View attachment 1194775

That would suggest we haven't been going down the line enough... Maybe this is the reason teams have been getting easy I50 against us as we are turning it over in dangerous areas?

I would assume that any plan B would rely on winning the ball at the contest or putting pressure on the ball carrier to create turnovers it doesn't matter how many plans you have if you can't implement the basic pressure around the ball.

I believe this highlights the crucial role Hipwood was playing as our lead up forward. Hipwood would gut run to the wing and will either mark or compete to take possession. He was our relief kick providing that long kicking, fast moving, tall option. He went down in round 17 against Saints.

After Hipwood's ACL others may not be playing that role effectively forcing us to go through the middle and try different things. McStay has started marking the long kick to wing lately but we're still adjusting and its still a work in progress for us. Hippy was pretty unique for us in the role he was playing

 

[briztoon]

If Noble is sitting next to Fagan in the coaches box then it would be rediculous to assume that Fages and him didn't use each other as sounding boards, especialy when were playing ok but still lost games easily.
Would of been a lot of support to stick with the plan.
It looked like Danny Daley stepped up in as part of that game day tactical interaction or maybe that's what he always did.
Also got to give Noble a bit of credit in the bank as he's been coaching in the past as well.
I agree to your sentiment though , his departure is not why we are stalling.
It's other reasons and multi faceted. Injuries , game style.
We have moved onto a different gameplan since Fages early years to, what another clever poster on here said , an unsustainable game style.
You simply cannot play finals intensity crash bash footy every week all year.
Year after year. Need to play more bruise free footy , spread , run, more uncontested.
That doesn't mean when there is a contest you don't go hard or refuse to tackle , that's expected.
It's about what we do when we have it.

I'll put it another way.
Take squash players .
One guy will run all day hard and fast , the other guy , bit over weight , slow on his feet.
Still wins though.
Why?
He commands the center of court , runs his opponent around the court untill he can deliver a unreturnable shot, simply tactically out plays his opponent.
I feel like we play like the hard and fast guy , even when we are in form and winning. need to play smarter.

No offence to people over weight especialy that prick that used to hit the ball into the back corner all the time.

Daly was our strategy coach. When he moved upstairs, we brought in Stone as our strategy coach.

As I mentioned before, there are articles about Fagan’s and Noble’s roles in the coaches box.

Fagan talked about when he was head of football at Hawthorn, his role in the coaches box was often to be a calming influence for Clarkson and provide a sounding board, rather than provide direction.

If your head of football has to step up and talk tactics, plan B, etc, you’ve got the wrong head coach and/or assistant coaches.

 

[Dalions]

Daly was our strategy coach. When he moved upstairs, we brought in Stone as our strategy coach.

As I mentioned before, there are articles about Fagan’s and Noble’s roles in the coaches box.

Fagan talked about when he was head of football at Hawthorn, his role in the coaches box was often to be a calming influence for Clarkson and provide a sounding board, rather than provide direction.

If your head of football has to step up and talk tactics, plan B, etc, you’ve got the wrong head coach and/or assistant coaches.

I read an article when Noble first come up here about when he was in the box at Adelaide that his main thing that he concentrated on was data analysis, stats, analytics maybe? to try and see momentum swings in games via numbers before they show on any scoreboard and to pass that info onto the Coaching staff to make adjustments before things get out of control.