Coach Fages and the coaching group

[p4p1]

I dunno how anyone knows who's better.

It depends on what the criteria is. I think Fagan started with less , especially in terms of money and support , and basically built the club and the list from the ground up. He was smart enough to get the right people into the club and improve with what he had . Then it snowballed from there.

I love Fages but there was people behind the scenes just before he got here that had a huge say in getting the right people around Fages as well. It doesn't matter how good the coach is, they really need and excellent team behind them from the CEO down.
Fages and co have done a remarkable job in turning the club around and making it a destination club and they did it in a relatively short time all things considered.
Fly will never have to deal with the situation that Fages did, the money is always going to be there but you still need the right people around you. Man U is IMO a great example of having all the money in the world but making poor decisions and not having the right people in the right places behind the scenes.

Collingwood had quite a few very good players when McCrae started and he completely changed the way they played . It's impressive how disciplined they are in sustaining the gameplan and having every player on the list buy into it. McRae's only into his 4th year so comparisons aren't overly relevant just yet.

A showdown could be looming this year because we've both won the one flag and bragging rights might be decided in September.

Fly has done an excellent job at Collingwood. Whether they underperformed in 2021 or not they finished second last. Fly got them up to 4th and a prelim the year after in his first year.

 

[martinson]

Just a reminder that Alastair Clarkson, 4 x premiership coach and Damien Hardwick, 3 x premiership coach and Chris Scott, 2 x premiership coach are still coaching.

Yeah. I sort of get the love for McCrae in a way but he's got a way to go yet. Maybe people are getting a little carried away with the footy they're playing at the moment.

Clarkson was nearly sacked in his first few years. Likewise it took Dimma 7 years before Richmond got a sniff.

There's many ways you can look at these things , they're all obviously excellent coaches and often there are other factors not within their control that help or hinder them.

 

[M Malice]

A showdown could be looming this year because we've both won the one flag and bragging rights might be decided in September.

Certainly looking that way at the moment, Lions and Magpies best footy is looking clearly the best... with the Cats and Bulldogs the next level down IMO.

A GF between us would definitely determine who is the best team of this current era.

 

[Sunny Land]

Just a reminder that Alastair Clarkson, 4 x premiership coach and Damien Hardwick, 3 x premiership coach and Chris Scott, 2 x premiership coach are still coaching.

I get that. How far back did they start from and how quickly did they turn it around? Not discounting what those you mentioned have achieved but still think our culture from when he stepped into the job to now has not been duplicated by anyone.

 

[Sunny Land]

Certainly looking that way at the moment, Lions and Magpies best footy is looking clearly the best... with the Cats and Bulldogs the next level down IMO.

A GF between us would definitely determine who is the best team of this current era.

We got a fair way to travel before our current era of success ends in my opinion. Our list will only get stronger while unsure about the Pies with their ageing stars.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

It's way too early to make these calls on McRea. If he had of gone to the Saints and turned them around around instead of the biggest club in the land then maybe comparisons with Fagan could be made.

 

[p4p1]

I get that. How far back did they start from and how quickly did they turn it around? Not discounting what those you mentioned have achieved but still think our culture from when he stepped into the job to now has not been duplicated by anyone.

Before Dimma started in 2010, Richmond hadn't played finals since 2001. I don't know that they were as bad as us but they were pretty bad for a period. It took Dimma 7 seasons to win the Premiership. The same as it took Fages. Richmond's culture sucked, but he turned it into a winning culture regardless of how you interpret that. We don't play footy for the culture, we play to win premierships. You can't win premierships with a bad culture but it is irrelevant if we think Fages has created a better culture than Dimma did.
The same is applied to Clarko and Scotty.
It's rough but in footy success is measured by premierships.

 

[M Malice]

We got a fair way to travel before our current era of success ends in my opinion. Our list will only get stronger while unsure about the Pies with their ageing stars.

Have we got the players on our list to play a similar role to our oldest players going forward into an extended era/window?

Dayne Zorko, Lachie Neale, Charlie Cameron, Oscar McInerney.

 

[Sunny Land]

Before Dimma started in 2010, Richmond hadn't played finals since 2001. I don't know that they were as bad as us but they were pretty bad for a period. It took Dimma 7 seasons to win the Premiership. The same as it took Fages. Richmond's culture sucked, but he turned it into a winning culture regardless of how you interpret that. We don't play footy for the culture, we play to win premierships. You can't win premierships with a bad culture but it is irrelevant if we think Fages has created a better culture than Dimma did.
The same is applied to Clarko and Scotty.
It's rough but in footy success is measured by premierships.

In my footy career, I would not go to a club with shitty culture. Neale thought the same as do others who express interest in coming here. Culture has a direct result on performance on the field. Without a good culture you wont get the ultimate success in my opinion. Both Clarko & Dimma have achieved amazing things for The Hawks & Tigers & I'm not trying to detract from that. Just comparing their journeys thus far compared to Chris's to date.
Dimma was a hairs breath away from being sacked before success started to come....dont think our man has ever been close to that thus far.
Clarko had his tussles with the admin...our man never has.

 

[Sunny Land]

Have we got the players on our list to play a similar role to our oldest players going forward into an extended era/window?

Dayne Zorko, Lachie Neale, Charlie Cameron, Oscar McInerney.

Havent got a crystal ball to confidently answer that but I would not say we dont or continue to bring in talent to do just that.

 

[Denno]

It depends on how you look at it. Personally, i would say McRae is the best coach in the league, because his team isn't nearly as talented as ours, yet he has them performing on the same level or even above us. I really think his application for coaching is super modern, and the way he rests and brings in players from the 2nds is very similar to soccer/football, yet somehow this isn't something thats done in the AFL. He's a very forward thinking person, while Fagan is a lot more traditional. The only time Fagan tried to break his rules was last season when he was forced too, and ironically, Fagan looked like a better coach the moment he started taking more risks. If Fagan is considered traditional by nature, and stubborn. Then McRae has to be considered the opposite of that. Taking that in mind: one coach can be perfect for one club, and not as perfect for another. Fagan, perhaps, should have achieved another GF with our club, and perhaps, he's too strict with his selections. And there's question marks over his sub choices. But he was the perfect man to join this club back in 2018 (and i believe he was the only man who could have turned us around). I feel like what Fagan has over McRae is that he really is a culture changer, and for a club like us, he was the perfect man. I also think McRae inherited pretty good foundations at collingwood, and i doubt he would have turned us around like Fagan did. So while i agree that McRae is the best coach in the league, i still think the best coach for our club was/is Fagan. Because of where he took us from, and to where we are now. He can be a little frustrating (especially with his selections) but i wouldn't want another coach at the lions, because he's more than a coach, he's a man-manager, a culture changer, and so many more things. McRae is the better coach, but the biggest difference between these two is that Fagan is more than a coach, and our club needs someone like that.

Chris Scott started it in 2011......

 

[p4p1]

We got a fair way to travel before our current era of success ends in my opinion. Our list will only get stronger while unsure about the Pies with their ageing stars.

But we still have to get there though and there is no guarantee we will for a variety of reasons.

 

[Sunny Land]

But we still have to get there though and there is no guarantee we will for a variety of reasons.

Agree. However.... you were comparing current era of success's which isn't a fair comparison.

 

[M Malice]

But we still have to get there though and there is no guarantee we will for a variety of reasons.

Some underestimate how hard the AFL competition is, one of the most gruelling leagues on the Planet IMO.

Long, physically and psychologically demanding seasons, which makes extended success all the more impressive eg. Lions 01-04, Cats 07-11, Hawks 12-15 and Tigers 17-20.

4 dominant sides this century alone is pretty much against the norm?

 

[p4p1]

Some underestimate how hard the AFL competition is, one of the most gruelling leagues on the Planet IMO.

Long, physically and psychologically demanding seasons, which makes extended success all the more impressive eg. Lions 01-04, Cats 07-11, Hawks 12-15 and Tigers 17-20.

4 dominant sides this century alone is pretty much against the norm?

It's not just that it is long and grueling, it is that there is 23-24 weeks of qualifying that mean nothing once the final four weeks of the season starts.
Finishing on top of the ladder is hard but finishing the season, playing your best footy at the right time and having a small injury list, with hopefully none of your most important players out is even harder. Then go into one of matches where if you are a bees dick off your best you lose? Even harder.
The Cats you bring up are a great example, they beat Hawthorn 9/10 times in 2008, but it meant **** all because Hawthorn outplayed them in the final game of the season. They lost two games all season, one of them just happened to be the only one that really mattered.

 

[Squizz89]

‘Different’ part of scary Pies; ‘danger’ warning as awkward Lions succession touted — Talking Pts

‘Different’ part of scary Pies; ‘danger’ warning as awkward Lions succession touted — Talking Pts

www.foxsports.com.au

DOES AWKWARD CHAT LOOM FOR LIONS?

Could another AFL coaching succession plan be in the works? What does life after Chris Fagan look like for the Lions?

Despite winning last year’s flag and a strong start to 2025, Brisbane’s coaching position is in the spotlight.

As it stands, Fagan is contracted until the end of 2027 but with Tasmania looming, the Lions will be looking to tie down two of the best footy minds in the industry sooner rather than later.

Like Fagan, Brisbane footy manager Danny Daly is highly regarded within the industry and following last year’s triumph, rival clubs tried to pry him out of the Lions.

So how do the Lions keep both off-field guns? Could a succession plan, which would eventually see Daly step into the senior coach position, be on the cards?

“That would be one that would allow the club to keep Danny Daly… who is so highly regarded,” Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph said on Fox Footy’s Thursday Night Footy broadcast.

“Daly isn’t interested in that in any way. He’d want to win a coaching job on his own merit, whether that’s at Brisbane when ‘Fages’ leaves or somewhere else.

“But more to the point, the Lions will try to find a way to keep Fagan past 2027. The thought bubble is, ‘do we allow him not to take training for a lot of the sessions? Do we allow him to delegate much more but still be at this football club as an EPL style manager?’

“In control of the big decisions but just allowing the others to do more… he’s very much a spring chicken at 63, this club wants to keep him around for a very long time into the future.”

But Fox Footy’s expert panel were of the belief that Fagan wouldn’t be going anywhere soon - unless he wanted to.

“We’ve seen overseas that age is no barrier. If you’re coaching the way he is, I’ve been really critical of Chris over the last 18 months, but he’s in great form and has this team flying,” North Melbourne champion David King said.

“They’ve won a flag, you want to keep things as stable as you can. I can understand the theory behind it but in the end it’ll be Chris’ decision as to whether he stays or goes.”

St Kilda champion Leigh Montagna

Leigh Montagna

Age

42

Ht

178cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.9

5star

K

14.8

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.7

4star

T

4.0

5star

MG

482.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.8

2star

HB

1.2

2star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

believes that Fagan is still at the top of his coaching game.

“I can’t see any rush why they’d need to get rid of him soon. He’s still coaching well, you can see the connection to the playing group. He’s got plenty of years left if he still wants to keep going,” Montagna added.

But are succession plans becoming the norm? In recent times, they’ve certainly become more popular.

The Swans were one of the first teams to implement a succession plan when Paul Roos handed the reins over to John Longmire back in 2011. That was one of, if not the most successful succession plans to date.

Collingwood were one of the next clubs to implement one when Pies legend Nathan Buckley took over from Mick Malthouse. That one seemed far messier than the Roos-Longmire transition.

At Melbourne, Roos handed a team over to Simon Goodwin

Simon Goodwin

Age

49

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

which can be considered a success given it resulted in premiership glory, but Essendon’s transition from John Worsfold to Ben Rutten

Ben Rutten

Age

42

Ht

190cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.4

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.0

3star

didn’t eventuate as the club would have hoped.

More recently, Hawthorn pulled the trigger on an Alastair Clarkson to Sam Mitchell plan, while just last year, the Swans went from Longmire to Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

44

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

. It’s far too early to tell whether or not those ones will bear fruits.

Port Adelaide have their own coaching succession plan in the works, with highly rated assistant Josh Carr

Josh Carr

Age

46

Ht

179cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

set to take over from Ken Hinkley at the end of 2025.

“They’re dangerous… I just think it’s fraught with danger when you’re making decisions ahead of time and saying this is what we’re going to do in 18 months’ time because a lot can change,” Hawthorn legend Jason Dunstall said.

Two-time premiership Roo David King said the best ones are “the ones you don’t know about”.

“The ones that are broadcast, they create a tension that you don’t need,” he said.

According to Ralph, the Lions want to retain both Fagan and Daly, which Dunstall said creates another layer of difficulty.

“It’s also difficult if you’re talking about keeping the coach at the club in another role. A coach that comes into that position probably wants some clean air, wants the ability to stamp his own imprimatur on the group, so that makes life difficult too,” Dunstall said.

How the Lions navigate the situation remains to be seen, but it’s certainly a storyline to track right now, especially with Tasmania circling.

 

[Sunny Land]

‘Different’ part of scary Pies; ‘danger’ warning as awkward Lions succession touted — Talking Pts

‘Different’ part of scary Pies; ‘danger’ warning as awkward Lions succession touted — Talking Pts

www.foxsports.com.au

DOES AWKWARD CHAT LOOM FOR LIONS?

Could another AFL coaching succession plan be in the works? What does life after Chris Fagan look like for the Lions?

Despite winning last year’s flag and a strong start to 2025, Brisbane’s coaching position is in the spotlight.

As it stands, Fagan is contracted until the end of 2027 but with Tasmania looming, the Lions will be looking to tie down two of the best footy minds in the industry sooner rather than later.

Like Fagan, Brisbane footy manager Danny Daly is highly regarded within the industry and following last year’s triumph, rival clubs tried to pry him out of the Lions.

So how do the Lions keep both off-field guns? Could a succession plan, which would eventually see Daly step into the senior coach position, be on the cards?

“That would be one that would allow the club to keep Danny Daly… who is so highly regarded,” Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph said on Fox Footy’s Thursday Night Footy broadcast.

“Daly isn’t interested in that in any way. He’d want to win a coaching job on his own merit, whether that’s at Brisbane when ‘Fages’ leaves or somewhere else.

“But more to the point, the Lions will try to find a way to keep Fagan past 2027. The thought bubble is, ‘do we allow him not to take training for a lot of the sessions? Do we allow him to delegate much more but still be at this football club as an EPL style manager?’

“In control of the big decisions but just allowing the others to do more… he’s very much a spring chicken at 63, this club wants to keep him around for a very long time into the future.”

But Fox Footy’s expert panel were of the belief that Fagan wouldn’t be going anywhere soon - unless he wanted to.

“We’ve seen overseas that age is no barrier. If you’re coaching the way he is, I’ve been really critical of Chris over the last 18 months, but he’s in great form and has this team flying,” North Melbourne champion David King said.

“They’ve won a flag, you want to keep things as stable as you can. I can understand the theory behind it but in the end it’ll be Chris’ decision as to whether he stays or goes.”

St Kilda champion Leigh Montagna believes that Fagan is still at the top of his coaching game.

“I can’t see any rush why they’d need to get rid of him soon. He’s still coaching well, you can see the connection to the playing group. He’s got plenty of years left if he still wants to keep going,” Montagna added.

But are succession plans becoming the norm? In recent times, they’ve certainly become more popular.

The Swans were one of the first teams to implement a succession plan when Paul Roos handed the reins over to John Longmire back in 2011. That was one of, if not the most successful succession plans to date.

Collingwood were one of the next clubs to implement one when Pies legend Nathan Buckley took over from Mick Malthouse. That one seemed far messier than the Roos-Longmire transition.

At Melbourne, Roos handed a team over to Simon Goodwin which can be considered a success given it resulted in premiership glory, but Essendon’s transition from John Worsfold to Ben Rutten didn’t eventuate as the club would have hoped.

More recently, Hawthorn pulled the trigger on an Alastair Clarkson to Sam Mitchell plan, while just last year, the Swans went from Longmire to Dean Cox. It’s far too early to tell whether or not those ones will bear fruits.

Port Adelaide have their own coaching succession plan in the works, with highly rated assistant Josh Carr set to take over from Ken Hinkley at the end of 2025.

“They’re dangerous… I just think it’s fraught with danger when you’re making decisions ahead of time and saying this is what we’re going to do in 18 months’ time because a lot can change,” Hawthorn legend Jason Dunstall said.

Two-time premiership Roo David King said the best ones are “the ones you don’t know about”.

“The ones that are broadcast, they create a tension that you don’t need,” he said.

According to Ralph, the Lions want to retain both Fagan and Daly, which Dunstall said creates another layer of difficulty.

“It’s also difficult if you’re talking about keeping the coach at the club in another role. A coach that comes into that position probably wants some clean air, wants the ability to stamp his own imprimatur on the group, so that makes life difficult too,” Dunstall said.

How the Lions navigate the situation remains to be seen, but it’s certainly a storyline to track right now, especially with Tasmania circling.

Once he has said enough at The Lions, his coaching career will come to an end. At this stage both he and Ursula will stay living in Brisbane as they love the lifestyle. I know things and situations can change but I'm sure everyone has heard Chris say once he's done at the Lions he's done. Sounds like the media bringing up another fake news story to make theirselves relevant once again.

 

[mpal6]

Someone's trying to get Lions to sack Fagan already. Would've been a timely story last year but this year he's the premiership coach ! Hilarious to be honest.

 

[T Rick]

The loss of CEO Greg Swann to AFL Headquarters is significant and is another key figure we have seen leave us for career progression elsewhere. From memory the Demons poached our fitness guru Selwyn Griffith to be their Performance Manager, the Kangaroos secured David Noble our Football Manager to be their Senior Coach, and the Crows recruited Assistant Coach Murray Davis as their Coaching Director. Clubs, including Collingwood also recently tried to get Danny Daly to leave us. All of this is a credit to the Lions culture of leadership development but my guess is that is does take an incremental toll on our organisation...not much we can do, if anything - it is just part and parcel of developing good people.

 

[Mr Ripper]

The loss of CEO Greg Swann to AFL Headquarters is significant and is another key figure we have seen leave us for career progression elsewhere. From memory the Demons poached our fitness guru Selwyn Griffith to be their Performance Manager, the Kangaroos secured David Noble our Football Manager to be their Senior Coach, and the Crows recruited Assistant Coach Murray Davis as their Coaching Director. Clubs, including Collingwood also recently tried to get Danny Daly to leave us. All of this is a credit to the Lions culture of leadership development but my guess is that is does take an incremental toll on our organisation...not much we can do, if anything - it is just part and parcel of developing good people.

I wonder if any of our comms team will ever be poached.

 

[GenericUsername202]

The loss of CEO Greg Swann to AFL Headquarters is significant and is another key figure we have seen leave us for career progression elsewhere. From memory the Demons poached our fitness guru Selwyn Griffith to be their Performance Manager, the Kangaroos secured David Noble our Football Manager to be their Senior Coach, and the Crows recruited Assistant Coach Murray Davis as their Coaching Director. Clubs, including Collingwood also recently tried to get Danny Daly to leave us. All of this is a credit to the Lions culture of leadership development but my guess is that is does take an incremental toll on our organisation...not much we can do, if anything - it is just part and parcel of developing good people.

Part and parcel of developing a good culture and successful environment. Hawthorn were raided a lot more than we did, so while it's disappointing to see all of these people leave, it's also a huge amount of respect to our club given how highly everyone views us now.

 

[BangyBangy]

I wonder if any of our comms team will ever be poached.

 

[irel]

I wonder if any of our comms team will ever be poached.

Swanny built it and they came.

 

[Sproj]

Have we got the players on our list to play a similar role to our oldest players going forward into an extended era/window?

Dayne Zorko, Lachie Neale, Charlie Cameron, Oscar McInerney.

Coleman, L.Ashcroft, McLachlan, the big question

Obviously Kiddy is a question because of the knee but if he can get right, he is almost a seamless transition from Zorks. L.Ashcroft and McLachlan already look the goods but the big question is Oscar. I really like us chasing Draper just quietly.

 

[M Malice]

Coleman, L.Ashcroft, McLachlan, the big question

Obviously Kiddy is a question because of the knee but if he can get right, he is almost a seamless transition from Zorks. L.Ashcroft and McLachlan already look the goods but the big question is Oscar. I really like us chasing Draper just quietly.

Spot on with Kiddy in the Zorks role, ideal would be to have 2 elite ball users out of the back half though.. and I think we have Neale "replacement" worked out, any of Ashcroft x 2 or Annable, want to be bloody good to approach Lachie levels of play though as a pure inside mid.

Not too worried about the big O successor, you can get by with an adequate break even ruck and still be a contender for flags eg Darcy Fort.

IMO Charlie in his best form is the hardest to replace, you can not beat pace.