federal Libs ahead in polls

[BUBBALOUIS]

Originally posted by TigerTank
This will please a lot of people but I'm STILL having real trouble posting.

But I'll give this a try because it works sometimes.

Anyway - Bubba, you ask why people "warm" to John Howard. It's because he has proven himself both competent and smart in the last month - he has read the mood of the people.

Whether Kim Beazley is a nice bloke or not is irrelevant - it's not a "father of the year" contest.

But even that is also irrelevant because we don't have a Presidential voting system - ie. we vote for a party, not a Prime Minister.

I don't think Beazley would make a bad Prime Minister personally, but the rest of his party is devoid of talent - just like the NSW Liberal Party. The mere fact that Carmen Lawrence (a proven liar or incompetent, take your pick) and Cheryl Kernot are amongst their highest profile operators shows how hopeless they are. Only Crean and Beazley have any clue at all.

In contrast Vanstone, Costello, Abbott and the likes are proven performers in their portfolios (although they can dump Kemp - he is a fool).

You could equally ask: who could "warm" to Bob Carr in NSW? He's just as unappealing as Howard - but he is so clearly superior to his Liberal opponent Chikarovski, so that's why he has the NSW Premiership for as long as he wants it.

Actually TT i agree with most of what you say, Howard is the consumate politician and has learnt over the years how to take populist views nearing an election, then take right angles and implement different policies when an election is years away.... makes him a good politician, not a good leader IMHO


BSA, no doubt Alan Jones has some influence, but i was in Sydney when John Hewson was running with his GST, Alan Jones almost broke a gasket trying to get him elected , even having his experts saying Hewson was looking presedential??!?1!!! That didnt seem to help Hewso, i think the rabid right are impressed, most others can see were he is coming from. Same in Melbourne, 3AW and Neil Mitchell in particular thought Jeff Kennett was God Like.....didnt help him in the last election....now Steve Price has convinced Kennett he should get involved in Federal politics (he will be campaining for them) because he is a great talent wasted!!! Now i ask you who is out of touch?

 

[TheMase]

Originally posted by Rohan_
The Unions are stuffing Australia. Blame Labor for that.

The Unions are criminals. Anyone who is familiar with the Skilled engineering practices in Victoria knows what I'm talking about.

Other practices such as unfair dismissal (employed by unions) have made employers scared of employing people because they face possible litigation in the future.

Despite Ansett and retail chains going under, unemployment is down 2.5 per cent since Labor were dismissed.

When Labor were in office we ran Budget deficits. Now with Liberal we have recorded our 4th straight surplus.

Our Current account deficit is at lowest point ever, with Labor it was it is highest point ever.

As Dan says, you can't argue with stats.

The reason they have the surplus is because they are selling Telstra etc...

Isnt the debt foreign debt?

And isnt that because our Imports are Greater than our exports?????

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Originally posted by TheMase


The reason they have the surplus is because they are selling Telstra etc...

Isnt the debt foreign debt?

And isnt that because our Imports are Greater than our exports?????

Quite right masey, also dont forget the HUGE TAX INTAKE from the GST, that has far exceeded expectations, thats where the budget surplus is coming from now, thats money from pensioners, small businesses etc etc etc

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by Briedis


If you compare their site with that of the Democrats - there's no comparison. The Democrats have plenty of well-thought-out policies and explanations on how they intend to carry them out if they get elected. The problem with voting Democrats is that they will never hold power to actually do any of these things....

And thank goodness too.

Briedis, you have failed to recognise the one true advantage the Democrats enjoy. The mere fact that they will not be elected as THE Government means they are not ACCOUNTABLE for the stupid ideas they do come up with. (BSA - it is the same for The Greens - if they ever got their hands on the steering wheel of Government it would be a national disaster)

You say they have well-thought out policies. They don't even have DEFENCE policy AT ALL! I have checked their website - nothing at all on one of the FEDERAL Governments core responsibilities! They can harp all they like about education, health, etc. - it is irrelevant because they are STATE issues.

They provide NO DETAILS on how they would fund all their EXPENSIVE ideas either - and they don't have to because they aren't aiming at Government. If they ever got in Government they would be exposed in a minute - in fact, the media has not made anything at all of key Democrat gaffes in the last month precisely because they are irrelevant to the nation as a whole (and some want to protect Stott Despoja as well).

So the reality is their policies are not very well thought out at all. In fact they are merely STATEMENTS based on THEORIES (not practical experience) - there is very little description of how those statements might be implemented. The reason for that is THERE IS NO PRACTICAL WAY of implementing those so-called "policies".

The Australian Labor Party, who have been in Government and therefore know something about being ACCOUNTABLE and RESPONSIBLE do not make so many silly platitudes and FALSE promises.

There are only three parties that have had to be responsible in Government - Labor, Liberal and National. The rest (Democrats, One Nation, Greens) are just pretending, and haven't really earned your vote.



BTW: Just because Stott Despoiler is allegedly the "hottest" politician does not mean she is especially good-looking. Being the best looking female politician is a bit like being the best AFL team in Western Australia at the moment.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

TT

I'm well aware of that.

The Greens are not ready to govern yet, and won't be for quite a few years.

But - it has to start somewhere doesn't it ?

The more votes the Greens get, the more serious they will become.

The German Greens started out as a fringe dwelling bunch of tree huggers with no idea whatsoever, now they are the coalition partners in government with the Social Democrats.

If it can happen in a place like Germany, there is no reason why it can't happen in Australia.

Anyone who is prepared to think about the issues must acknowledge that if you want to vote for the Greens, you have to be in it 'for the long haul' because to seriously expect the Greens to be ready, willing and able to govern right now is to be seriously deluding yourself.

I'm ready to make that commitment now, and I'm in it for the long haul.

The Greens can't govern at the moment, but the more support they get, the more they will be forced to get serious about themselves.

cheers

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

TT werent the Democrats pivotal in getting the GST across the line? In fact i can remember Howard and Costello salivating and saying how great Meg Lees and co were and how they were the true opposition?!?!

The Democrats took the GST and turned it into a nightmare with there changes, thats were most of the administrative problems stem from, the Liberals couldnt care less how aborted there legislation had become as long as it passed parliament ........

I have a real problem when a party with 4/5 % support hold an elected government with a mandated policy just elected to ransom ...... i didnt vote for the coalition but once they were elected they should have been able to implement all the policies they went to the election with unhindered, if they wavered or introducede new policies then the Senate has a right to obstruct ........

There is something wrong with a system where once two green senators in WA held the balance of power and hence really controlled gOV direction, but alas i dont know of a better system....

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Joel


Um, it was a LABOUR goverment that sold the Commonwealth Bank. Telstra - Only 50% was sold and I've been told from a former employee of Telstra, and my Business Management teacher at school...that Telstra up until recently was a bungling beauracy. An example of the 'typical' Goverment department/business that sits on its arse and does nothing.

Personally, I can't tell the difference between Labour and Liberal anymore. They are both as bad as each other. I know it was Labour that starting selling off assets, but it has been continued by this government.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Breidis your right, it all started under Hawke/Keating when they realised if they wanted to be elected and stay in Government they needed to move into the middle ground and away from there traditional left roots, the Liberals then found themselves moving more and more to the right as they lost there middle ground support, they then shifted back to the middle ground and became a replica of the Labour Party and got reelected, since then Hanson has seen the void left and claimed the far right wing support, Howard has seen this trend and recently moved more to the right to recapture these voters, it had backfired on him until the refugee crisis and the bombing in New York has turned his political fortunes around, pretty SIMPLISTIC EXPLANATION I KNOW bREIDIS, BUT I BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE, very lucky boy our Johnny

 

[Commissioner X]

Howard has always been a more accomplished politician then Beazley. Ironically, neither were particularly successful ministers, Howard when Treasurer presided over a $6 billion budget defecit, although he was marginilied in Cabinet by Fraser who rarely listened to the "advice" of treasury bureacrats during the final years of his reign. Beazley was a manifest failure in each of the ministries he held, bar defence, which he only held for a very short time anyway.

I agree with TT, the Labor party have more incompetents then the Coalition does, although this will always happen when you are trying to appease factions (Labor) or playing state politics (Coalition).

I agree with TT in regard to the Democrats whose policies consistute mainly motherhood statements, whislt the Greens are vandels who should NEVER BE ALLOWED TO GOVERN in any manner whatever. Most of their policies are based on falsehood anyway.

TT, the Greens do have a "defence" policy: it involves teaching non-violent forms of resistance- I kid you not!!

BSA, you are correct regarding the German Greens, however it must be stated that the German electoral and political system are significantly different from the one in Australia. The Australian electoral system makes it almost impossible to conceive such an occurence ever happening in Australia.

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by BUBBALOUIS




Quite right masey, also dont forget the HUGE TAX INTAKE from the GST, that has far exceeded expectations, thats where the budget surplus is coming from now, thats money from pensioners, small businesses etc etc etc

That money also comes from big business, most of it does actually!

 

[Macca19]

Re: Re: federal Libs ahead in polls

Originally posted by TheMase


My dad owns his own business and he reckons if the Libs get back in, he will have to close up shop....

and of course this will all change if Labour gets voted in

 

[Joel]

Re: Re: Re: federal Libs ahead in polls

Originally posted by Macca19


and of course this will all change if Labour gets voted in

Macca19 - Exactly right! What will change? Absolutely nothing! Kim Beazley has no policies.

 

[Macca19]

Re: Re: Re: Re: federal Libs ahead in polls

Originally posted by Joel


Macca19 - Exactly right! What will change? Absolutely nothing! Kim Beazley has no policies.

it fuken annoys me when you hear people on talkback radio etc who vote labour and they reckon it would all be so different if they get voted in. Pigs arse it will. They reckon Beazley will get rid of the GST!! PIGS ARSE HE WILL. Wouldnt surprise me if he raised the % of it to be honest.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Re: Re: Re: Re: federal Libs ahead in polls

Originally posted by Joel


Macca19 - Exactly right! What will change? Absolutely nothing! Kim Beazley has no policies.

LOL@Joel, somehow i dont think we see eye to eye on politics matey, well have to catch up one day and discuss it over a beer , should make an interesting afternoon, wed have to pay GST on the beer of course Or has Johnny done a backflip on that as well?

Joel can you name me the last opposition to release policies prior to the election campaign? I'll take a stab at it, JOHN HEWSON when he lost the unloseable election, no opposition will fall for that trap again, besides how can they possibly answer questions on funding of there policies until they know the status of the surplus which is ratified during the election campaign ....... oh and when did your mates Howard and Costello release details of there GST package last election .......... oh thats right during the election campaign...funny that. Anyway i know im looking at this from a different angle to you, but i do appreciate the different perspective, keep me on my toes Joel ..... but i think im in front on points

 

[Joel]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: federal Libs ahead in polls

Originally posted by BUBBALOUIS




LOL@Joel, somehow i dont think we see eye to eye on politics matey, well have to catch up one day and discuss it over a beer , should make an interesting afternoon, wed have to pay GST on the beer of course Or has Johnny done a backflip on that as well?

Joel can you name me the last opposition to release policies prior to the election campaign? I'll take a stab at it, JOHN HEWSON when he lost the unloseable election, no opposition will fall for that trap again, besides how can they possibly answer questions on funding of there policies until they know the status of the surplus which is ratified during the election campaign ....... oh and when did your mates Howard and Costello release details of there GST package last election .......... oh thats right during the election campaign...funny that. Anyway i know im looking at this from a different angle to you, but i do appreciate the different perspective, keep me on my toes Joel ..... but i think im in front on points

Okay, you are right on not releasing policies. BUT has the Labour Party given the party any indication as to where they sit on anything? They do more backflips than Howard does, and that is saying something.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Rohan,

I quite resent the fact you are calling me a 'criminal'. I am a member of a union (NTEU) for a reason. Quite often, workers are treated like rubbish. I joined after I had to work a 40 hour shift, basically against my will. That's 40 hours straight, no sleep, no break. This came about because of poor management from higher above. I have never striked, caused industrial turmoil etc.

I have seen some horrendous work practice in terms of safety. In my old job in the hospitality industry, I saw people have fingers cut off, I had a friend nearly have his whole hand taken off, I was electrocuted (I wasn't the only one either) and all due to shoddy work practices in the area of safety. The only time anything got done about it was when the Union came down to talk with the boss.

If you want to point the finger look at Australia's middle to upper management. There is a large number of useless b*stards being paid huge salaries to do stuff all. I know of an Executive Director of one organisation who cannot even operate a computer properly.

Sure there have been times when Unions have gone overboard but your post is just union bashing for the sake of union bashing. Too often it is the workers of Australia who are made to be the scapegoat of this country's problems.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Joel in all honesty i think both Labour and the Coalition are making statements with one eye on the opinion polls ..... elections looming does that to the two major parties, not good at all when your trying to judge what each will actually do ... your right i cant see what they stand for at the moment apart from some motherhood statements, i just hope they reveal all during the election campaign which should be pretty soon, i hope they provide a decent alternative regardless of whether they get elected or not, because we as a nation deserve to have two major parties with good alternate views to choose from

 

[TigerTank]

With respect BUBBA, isn't that a good thing?

If the politicians are reacting to opinion polls, that means they are listening to the people.

As the people's representatives, that's precisely what they are supposed to be doing.

 

[BUBBALOUIS]

Originally posted by TigerTank
With respect BUBBA, isn't that a good thing?

If the politicians are reacting to opinion polls, that means they are listening to the people.

As the people's representatives, that's precisely what they are supposed to be doing.

TT that would be a good thing if a) opinion polls were infallable b) the politicians believed in the statements they make based on those polls

For instance John Howard after Hewson lost the election, said the Liberals now had the GST off there agend, never ever i think was the quote, obviously because public opinion at the time said that was the smart thing to say, now we all now what he really meant was until such time as i think we can reintroduce it and win an election ...... sorry i used Howard as the example there are many instances of labour politicians doing the same thing, Keating and his famous tax cuts that were never delivered after he was elected ....... so in a nutshell what im saying is i would prefer politicians to stop playing politics, tell the public what they really stand for and then let the public decide whether thats what they want, not look at the polls, make a statement that wins you the election then do a backflip ....... hope i didnt rabbit on too much!

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by TigerTank

Briedis, you have failed to recognise the one true advantage the Democrats enjoy. The mere fact that they will not be elected as THE Government means they are not ACCOUNTABLE for the stupid ideas they do come up with.


I believe I did mention this....


They can harp all they like about education, health, etc. - it is irrelevant because they are STATE issues.


So why do the Liberals have Education and Health ministers?


They provide NO DETAILS on how they would fund all their EXPENSIVE ideas either - and they don't have to because they aren't aiming at Government. If they ever got in Government they would be exposed in a minute - in fact, the media has not made anything at all of key Democrat gaffes in the last month precisely because they are irrelevant to the nation as a whole (and some want to protect Stott Despoja as well).


If you actually read some of their policies you will see that some of them are actually cheaper alternatives to what we have now.


So the reality is their policies are not very well thought out at all. In fact they are merely STATEMENTS based on THEORIES (not practical experience) - there is very little description of how those statements might be implemented. The reason for that is THERE IS NO PRACTICAL WAY of implementing those so-called "policies".


That is incorrect - they provide quite detailed descriptions of how most of their policies can be carried out. Now you are really playing typical Australian politics...pull someone down and see if anyone says something


The Australian Labor Party, who have been in Government and therefore know something about being ACCOUNTABLE and RESPONSIBLE do not make so many silly platitudes and FALSE promises.


Apart from Bob Hawkes "No child will be living in poverty by 1990?" - give me a break. The current Labour Party is the opposite - they make NO promises! Why vote for a party that doesn't stand for ANYTHING?

Beazely and the Labour Party are gutless. GUTLESS Politics. At least the Democrats have the GUTS to say what they stand for. If you have an objective look at their policies (and obviously you can't) you will see that the majority of them make so much sence and are so simple it is funny. In fact, I would say that the current Democrats political stance is very close to that of the Whitlam-led Labour Party in the mid-70's. And how many wonderful changes were made in that era that increased the quality of life of ALL Australians?

Balancing the Books, as is the Liberals nature, means that your numbers are OK, that's all. The current figures are misleading at best. Who can honestly say that the quality of life in Australia has increased in the last 10 years?

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Rusty Brookes
Rohan,

I quite resent the fact you are calling me a 'criminal'. I am a member of a union (NTEU) for a reason. Quite often, workers are treated like rubbish. I joined after I had to work a 40 hour shift, basically against my will. That's 40 hours straight, no sleep, no break. This came about because of poor management from higher above. I have never striked, caused industrial turmoil etc.

I have seen some horrendous work practice in terms of safety. In my old job in the hospitality industry, I saw people have fingers cut off, I had a friend nearly have his whole hand taken off, I was electrocuted (I wasn't the only one either) and all due to shoddy work practices in the area of safety. The only time anything got done about it was when the Union came down to talk with the boss.

If you want to point the finger look at Australia's middle to upper management. There is a large number of useless b*stards being paid huge salaries to do stuff all. I know of an Executive Director of one organisation who cannot even operate a computer properly.

Sure there have been times when Unions have gone overboard but your post is just union bashing for the sake of union bashing. Too often it is the workers of Australia who are made to be the scapegoat of this country's problems.

Excellent post. Agree 100%. Unions were put in place to protect all of us.

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by BUBBALOUIS



TT that would be a good thing if a) opinion polls were infallable b) the politicians believed in the statements they make based on those polls

For instance John Howard after Hewson lost the election, said the Liberals now had the GST off there agend, never ever i think was the quote, obviously because public opinion at the time said that was the smart thing to say, now we all now what he really meant was until such time as i think we can reintroduce it and win an election ...... sorry i used Howard as the example there are many instances of labour politicians doing the same thing, Keating and his famous tax cuts that were never delivered after he was elected ....... so in a nutshell what im saying is i would prefer politicians to stop playing politics, tell the public what they really stand for and then let the public decide whether thats what they want, not look at the polls, make a statement that wins you the election then do a backflip ....... hope i didnt rabbit on too much!

I think that could be too much to ask Bubba! They are all pollies after all.

 

[TheMase]

Originally posted by Macca19


and of course this will all change if Labour gets voted in

Maybe not, but it would save them from doing anymore damage.

I remember a quote from Mr Howard, (either before he first got elected or just after he got elected),

"There will be no GST under this government"

Now, we are talking about backflips ay??

What about some of this. A few years ago, Howard put a TEMPORARY medicare levy increase of 4%!
People forgot.
Last year he took 2% off and people were praising him for doing it.
BUT HE PUT IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHICH WAS SUPPOSE TO BE TEMPORARY.

Another... He took a heap of money away from UNI's years ago, and put it back last year, same situation as the medicare, Howards great? I dont think so ...

I want him out... I am sick to death of seeing him... and hearing and having to put up with the BS he is putting on this country.

Labor might not do MUCH better, but, at least I dont have to see that idiot as the leader of our country anymore.

And this year I do get to have a say

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by BUBBALOUIS



TT that would be a good thing if a) opinion polls were infallable b) the politicians believed in the statements they make based on those polls

For instance John Howard after Hewson lost the election, said the Liberals now had the GST off there agend, never ever i think was the quote, obviously because public opinion at the time said that was the smart thing to say, now we all now what he really meant was until such time as i think we can reintroduce it and win an election ...... sorry i used Howard as the example there are many instances of labour politicians doing the same thing, Keating and his famous tax cuts that were never delivered after he was elected ....... so in a nutshell what im saying is i would prefer politicians to stop playing politics, tell the public what they really stand for and then let the public decide whether thats what they want, not look at the polls, make a statement that wins you the election then do a backflip ....... hope i didnt rabbit on too much!

Exactly, when are people going to wake up to the fact that the current political culture in Australia is about conning voters.

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by Briedis


Excellent post. Agree 100%. Unions were put in place to protect all of us.

That is what they are supposed to do. Doesn't happen when you get militants (may be a slight exaggeration) controlling some of them.