Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[fleabitten]

So we have no information about this at all? Why even bring it up?

We have the relevant information. A woman was lauded as a feminist hero for doing a performance art protest, demanding that the student who allegedly r*ped her two years earlier be expelled from school. Whether he actually r*ped her or not is not knowable unless either the guy comes forward and admits it or she admits she made it up. The point is that there's an expectation among many (most?) feminists that the man be punished despite not having been found guilty of anything.

 

[Chief]

We have the relevant information. A woman was lauded as a feminist hero for doing a performance art protest, demanding that the student who allegedly r*ped her two years earlier be expelled from school. Whether he actually r*ped her or not is not knowable unless either the guy comes forward and admits it or she admits she made it up. The point is that there's an expectation among many (most?) feminists that the man be punished despite not having been found guilty of anything.

But do we know anything more about this? At all?

 

[fleabitten]

But do we know anything more about this? At all?

I've read a few articles about it. What did you want to know? She claims that she was r*ped in her own bed on the 1st night of her 2nd year at college. The articles I read didn't give much more in the way of details of the alleged incident. The guy was not convicted of anything. She (and other students) claim that the school is slow to act on these kinds of incidents (didn't see any explanation of why the school should act rather than the police). Now in her senior year, she is walking around with her mattress until the guy is expelled from the school or graduates, whichever comes first. Her performance art has gone viral and is supposedly one of the feminist highlights of the year. The issue I have with it is the expectation that the school should expel this guy on her say so, with no evidence and no charges against him.

 

[SpuriousPea]

I've read a few articles about it. What did you want to know? She claims that she was r*ped in her own bed on the 1st night of her 2nd year at college. The articles I read didn't give much more in the way of details of the alleged incident. The guy was not convicted of anything. She (and other students) claim that the school is slow to act on these kinds of incidents (didn't see any explanation of why the school should act rather than the police). Now in her senior year, she is walking around with her mattress until the guy is expelled from the school or graduates, whichever comes first. Her performance art has gone viral and is supposedly one of the feminist highlights of the year. The issue I have with it is the expectation that the school should expel this guy on her say so, with no evidence and no charges against him.

Amazingly a lot of colleges in the US deal with this stuff through campus tribunals.

 

[romeoh]

I've read a few articles about it. What did you want to know? She claims that she was r*ped in her own bed on the 1st night of her 2nd year at college. The articles I read didn't give much more in the way of details of the alleged incident. The guy was not convicted of anything. She (and other students) claim that the school is slow to act on these kinds of incidents (didn't see any explanation of why the school should act rather than the police). Now in her senior year, she is walking around with her mattress until the guy is expelled from the school or graduates, whichever comes first. Her performance art has gone viral and is supposedly one of the feminist highlights of the year. The issue I have with it is the expectation that the school should expel this guy on her say so, with no evidence and no charges against him.

And 2 other students claim to have been r*ped by the same student, yet he remains on campus. So perhaps the students feel powerless if the uni doesn't deal with the situation. Given the high rate of sexual assault in US campuses, frustration must be quite high, especially when no action results.She, and 23 other students have filed a federal complaint about Columbia for its mishandling of sexual assault issues-so one suspects some kind of problem is there that needs highlighting.
Seems to me it is not at all helpful when you consistently throw around the term 'feminists.' You refer to 'feminists' who do this and do that. Who are you talking about? Other students at the uni who believed her and were angry about it? Why does that make them feminists-aren't they just people who believe her and are seeking justice? Why be so offended-if she wants to lug a mattress round, so what?
Why have such a chip on your shoulder that distorts your view and renders it every bit as irrational as the extremists who exploit 'female' issues.

 

[fleabitten]

Why is it the university's responsibility to deal with the situation if no crime has been shown to have been committed? Even if there are 2 other students, that could be 3 women that know each other and were treated poorly by this guy and got together to accuse him of rape. Not saying that's the case, but it could be. How can you punish someone just because someone else accuses them of something?

I'm throwing around the term feminists because feminists have been proclaiming her as a feminist hero. I didn't say anything about other students being feminists and I'm not "offended". I just think it's bullshit to make someone out to be a hero for demanding someone be punished without any proof that they did anything wrong. If that's one of your feminist highlights of the year, then there's something wrong.

 

[fleabitten]

Also, the claim about the high rate of sexual assault on US college campuses is questionable. The methods they used to come up with the numbers that they did were a joke.

 

[romeoh]

Why is it the university's responsibility to deal with the situation if no crime has been shown to have been committed? Even if there are 2 other students, that could be 3 women that know each other and were treated poorly by this guy and got together to accuse him of rape. Not saying that's the case, but it could be. How can you punish someone just because someone else accuses them of something?

I'm throwing around the term feminists because feminists have been proclaiming her as a feminist hero. I didn't say anything about other students being feminists and I'm not "offended". I just think it's bullshit to make someone out to be a hero for demanding someone be punished without any proof that they did anything wrong. If that's one of your feminist highlights of the year, then there's something wrong.

Or she does deserve some recognition for highlighting a university system that seem to be out of control re sexually offensive actions?

 

[romeoh]

Also, the claim about the high rate of sexual assault on US college campuses is questionable. The methods they used to come up with the numbers that they did were a joke.

Link please.

 

[fleabitten]

Link please.

This was the first to come up in a search, but I've seen the commonly quoted statistics debunked many times.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...een-r*ped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980

If you believe the stats that always get quoted by feminists, US colleges are more dangerous than war-torn parts of Africa. It's nonsense. They counted people as having been r*ped when the respondents themselves did not think that they had. If you'd had drunk sex, that counted as being sexually assaulted. Unwanted verbal and visual contact was also counted as sexual assault. The 1-in-5 is another one of those overblown statistics that actually does more harm than good because it's so easy to call bullshit and dismiss the problem altogether. If there is a problem with sexual assault on US college campuses, it should be approached honestly and the response should be in proportion to the problem.

 

[romeoh]

This was the first to come up in a search, but I've seen the commonly quoted statistics debunked many times.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...een-r*ped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980

If you believe the stats that always get quoted by feminists, US colleges are more dangerous than war-torn parts of Africa. It's nonsense. They counted people as having been r*ped when the respondents themselves did not think that they had. If you'd had drunk sex, that counted as being sexually assaulted. Unwanted verbal and visual contact was also counted as sexual assault. The 1-in-5 is another one of those overblown statistics that actually does more harm than good because it's so easy to call bullshit and dismiss the problem altogether. If there is a problem with sexual assault on US college campuses, it should be approached honestly and the response should be in proportion to the problem.

Regardless of this report, pretty sure you will find lots of studies have been done and all indicate there is a real problem. The stats, indicating there are issues that need addressing, are quoted by people in the field, rather than just 'feminists' and by people in public positions e.g. Obama-do you think he would reference data based on questionable procedures?
Sorry but the paranoia exhibited by some posters in this area is plain silly
http://www.nsvrc.org/saam/campus-resource-list

 

[fleabitten]

Obama has repeatedly quoted faulty statistics when talking about gender issues. A lot of these poorly done studies have gone mainstream and are constantly referenced even though they have been thoroughly debunked.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure sexual assault at university is a real problem and the studies that show more realistic rates of sexual victimization are still worrying. It's just not the crisis that it's made out to be.

 

[kfc1]

[QUOTE="romeoh, post: 36389061, member: ]e.g. Obama-do you think he would reference data based on questionable procedures?[/QUOTE]
Lol
Politicians quote dodgy data all the time as it suits their needs
E.g. Abbott and the PPL and direct action

 

[romeoh]

Obama has repeatedly quoted faulty statistics when talking about gender issues. A lot of these poorly done studies have gone mainstream and are constantly referenced even though they have been thoroughly debunked.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure sexual assault at university is a real problem and the studies that show more realistic rates of sexual victimization are still worrying. It's just not the crisis that it's made out to be.

Yep agree it is probably not the crisis its made out to be, but enough stuff occurring suggests it needs attention.
Not sure what you are referring to re Obama and faulty stats-he is no George Bush idiot type.

 

[romeoh]

[QUOTE="romeoh, post: 36389061, member: ]e.g. Obama-do you think he would reference data based on questionable procedures?

E.g. Abbott and the PPL and direct action[/QUOTE]
Yep but there is a big difference between a dope like Abbott who is way out of his depth and a highly intelligent man like Obama, who is also a competent pollie.

 

[mottrain]

E.g. Abbott and the PPL and direct action

Yep but there is a big difference between a dope like Abbott who is way out of his depth and a highly intelligent man like Obama, who is also a competent pollie.[/QUOTE]
You've got to be kidding??

 

[fleabitten]

Yep agree it is probably not the crisis its made out to be, but enough stuff occurring suggests it needs attention.
Not sure what you are referring to re Obama and faulty stats-he is no George Bush idiot type.

Can't remember now if it was Obama himself or just the Whitehouse, but the 23 cent per dollar gender wage gap has been repeated as though it represented an actual discrepancy in pay for the same work, same hours and same qualifications.

 

[romeoh]

Yep but there is a big difference between a dope like Abbott who is way out of his depth and a highly intelligent man like Obama, who is also a competent pollie.

You've got to be kidding??[/QUOTE]

 

[romeoh]

Can't remember now if it was Obama himself or just the Whitehouse, but the 23 cent per dollar gender wage gap has been repeated as though it represented an actual discrepancy in pay for the same work, same hours and same qualifications.

Yep but there is disagreement over the interpretations re that issue in any case isn't there? The right wing press push a version that is not necessarily correct-Obama is essentially pretty right, according to others.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117550/gender-pay-gap-and-77-cents-claudia-goldin-says-its-real

 

[Engimal]

Your story reminds me of that other rape allegation at a US college, fleabitten.

Rolling Stone published a story about it but, to protect the girl, they never talked to the alleged rapist. Turns out that the frat party that she claims she was r*ped at didn't exist because that fraternity hadn't held any social gatherings yet and the alleged rapist, who was a life guard according to the girl, didn't exist because the fraternity didn't have anyone employed as a lifeguard at the time. In the end, Rolling Stone had to retract the story. Apparently even her friends were questioning her story.

Not really on topic but an interesting case regardless.

 

[SpuriousPea]

FDNY drops physical test requirement amid low female hiring rate

 

[Lester Burnham]

FDNY drops physical test requirement amid low female hiring rate

Fire fighters who are not physically up to the job. What could go wrong?

The FST drills include advancing a heavy tire 6 to 8 feet, raising a ladder up a wall and breaching holes in a ceiling — while wearing an oxygen tank with a limited amount of air.

Nigro revealed the adjustments to the exam at a City Council hearing Wednesday where members questioned whether the skills test was responsible for the 10,500-member force including just 44 women.
​

Perhaps the AFL needs to bring in gender targets for each of the club's player lists.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Yep but there is a big difference between a dope like Abbott who is way out of his depth and a highly intelligent man like Obama, who is also a competent pollie.

You've got to be kidding??[/QUOTE]
runk

 

[mottrain]

You've got to be kidding??

runk[/QUOTE]
.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

runk

.[/QUOTE]
You really are quite slow aren't you?