Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[telsor]

This belittling and condescension is a a form of white-knighting. It stems from a predominantly gynocentric attitude to gender issues. Those with such an attitude are unable to take a stand, in deed, for equality - as much as they might believe in it as an ideal - because they make paramount the protecting of the honor of women. What happens to be right or wrong is a trivial matter compared with defending the honor of women.

Please don't come to my 'defense'. I'd rather not have what I'm trying to say associated with your extremist views.

 

[tesseract]

Please don't come to my 'defense'. I'd rather not have what I'm trying to say associated with your extremist views.

My dear, Telsor, you actually took my comment as coming to your defense! How very self-centred.

 

[tesseract]

Now that tesseract is here this thread has jumped the shark.

Ironically, the jump usually starts when someone makes it personal rather than keeping to thread topic.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Off the top of my head-Wages-there is a gender gap, superannuation-there is a gender gap. Men more likely to have top end jobs. Women lower paying jobs. Domestic violence-far more often happens to women.
eg. http://www.smh.com.au/national/wome...4-days-to-equal-mens-pay-20140905-10cjgu.html

You're going to have to outline your position a little better than that. It's too crude. It's becoming increasingly hard to track wage equality of the basis of gender alone. Comparing the lifetime wage of one women to another who makes substantially different life choices isn't an equitable comparison and increasing calls for gross lifetime wage equality within a capitalist system, increasingly disadvantages many women who leave work to raise a family or work part time to do so.

Violent crime is primarily committed by men, around the ninety percentage mark. There are countless studies that shows domestic violence is least gendered form of violence in our society if you're making a direct comparison. The only difference is this happens to be where women are most at risk of physical harm and placing special emphasis intimate partner violence distorts perceptions of broader societal violence.

Again there are countless studies that shows similar levels of physical aggression between partners, (which isn't always considered DV). But such aggression doesn't translate through to physical injuries as much in men as it does in women. I'd personally espouse a lower threshold for interpreting intimate partner violence, educating people on the forms of non gendered forms of DV that are often precursors to physical violence.

I know i have some personal get our behaviors which i won't tolerate.

Ah Menzel, as predictable as ever. Using meaningless American stats.

Hardly meaningless. America has more data to use and a whole bunch of different social arrangements across different states.

 

[Tas]

Yep agree same job =same wage regardless of the gender but if you read the article many of the 'same' jobs within the organizations are going to men for a couple of reasons( capability not being one of them)-so the gender gap continues in that less direct sense.

I think this is where some study should go into looking at reasons rather than just make up reasons that women are underpaid. I don't know of any businesses that discriminate based on sex or pay less, but business work out a pretty basic formula of experience and education largely based on what the market typically values.

I think childbearing is the number one problem when it comes to equality in pay.

I think another issue is women are a lot more loyal to employers then men are and tend to stick out jobs a lot more from entry level to lower management to middle management. It can be a lot easier to find promotion by moving around.

I also think when you are talking a large population that women tend to find comfort levels a lot lower than men do and do not have the desire to take on more work hours, more responsibility and more stress for marginal improvements in salary. There is an opportunity cost that comes with that, you do not make as much money as you possibly could.

I do believe women can compete as hard as men do, when they choose to do it.

Getting the maximum amount of money isn't the be-all in life, I respect people who say I am comfortable up to here, for the foreseeable future, I am happy to work hard to do this job but I don't want all the crap of a higher level position.

I think enjoyment and quality of life are far more critical than the kind of things feminists are beating on about. I believe equality exists now, if you want to make as much money as possible and be a CEO or whatever, there is nobody holding you back from doing it and if you work hard enough and are smart enough you will get the rewards for your effort. But, we do not need some kind of homogenisation, we do not need everyone earning the same amount irrespective how hard they work.

Agree the mortality rate is higher but it is as you recognize there are more men doing that sort of work-and I imagine there are a couple of reasons for that( rather than they just don't like the mortality rate!

I am sure more women would do that work if they were physically suited for it, it has to be a lot better than being a waitress or or low paying jobs like retail. A lot of physical and trade skill based jobs pay really well because they are in high demand because people generally do not want to do them, not because the skillset is hard to acquire.

I've started to see more 'larger' women working in construction or mining or the kind of fields that were men only a long time ago, there are a lot of really tough women and I respect them for really excelling at careers that were once male only, but they are still a significant minority overall and tough jobs lead to a tough lifestyle.

i think in time as more women break into male dominated areas will realise it isn't the cup of tea feminists make it out to be, tough jobs are physically draining but can be mentally and emotionally draining as well, coming home exhausted and hurting, often dealing with debilitating injuries and a future that only promises pain and discomfort is a high price to pay for equality on a spreadsheet of statistics and averages.

Who does after all-Some workforces have a male culture out there, you can't take the children mining or rigging etc)

Children are an option in life though, choosing to have kids means a lot of things in life are less of an option than they are if you were childless. I think we are getting to the crux of feminist equality, women want to be able to have kids whilst having the same privileges of those who chose not to in terms of income and opportunity. That isn't equality though.

Same goes for much of the male privilege diagram-many of the determining factors in that are about type/nature of it, rather than the gender ( e.g. more men presumably commit more serous crime=longer sentences/ more men in industry = more workplace accidents)

I agree with the crime/punishment issue. Men are a lot more prone at committing serious crime.

The suicide rate for men is quite dreadful and I don't know how that can be explained( think it is quite high for elderly men?) and a lot more needs to be done about it.

Unfortunately, I do not see any solution, in fact, I think it will get a lot worse the more light is drawn to the fact life is shit 'so lets see how we can stop you from killing yourself and ending your misery'.

I think the only reason it isn't a lot worse is because people are still deluded about love and marriage.

 

[romeoh]

Yep plenty of reasonable reflections here.
Doubt many people think mining jobs etc are cups of tea-lonely, hard work, long hours but being so financially well rewarded helps.
'children are an option' also applies to men too of course.
Thanks for the rational discussion Tas.

 

[Tas]

Yep plenty of reasonable reflections here.
Doubt many people think mining jobs etc are cups of tea-lonely, hard work, long hours but being so financially well rewarded helps.
'children are an option' also applies to men too of course.
Thanks for the rational discussion Tas.

I think there are a lot of positives, the current environment is fantastic for women, however, I feel sad when I read financial reports from places like JB Hi Fi and they talk about employment quotas and reaching certain levels of women at various levels.

I think if you turn down a guy who is a better candidate for a position because you are looking to meet a gender quota then your decision is motivated by the gender of the candidate and that is discrimination. We should always be pushing for the best candidate to be employed. If women are under-represented at various levels then look into the reasons why and rather than just give them preferential treatment look at development programs which help to off-set problems caused by the impact of childbearing or other issues.

An environment free of gender bias should not make decisions based on the gender of employees, if they happen to have a lot more men or women then so be it as long as the people were all employed based on merit rather than discrimination.

I think there are better ways to address issues by selling positive messages and doing pro-active things rather than selling a negative message and being reactive by just placing artificial bottlenecks in as career paths for men.

We do have a problem with childbearing, it is not only restrictive to career progression but the support mechanisms are extremely poor and raising kids is very expensive. I think we have a larger, more important discussion that needs to be had and that is if we want to be driving the population growth by highly educated people who have been brought up within our system and support our culture, or if we want to rely on taking in more and more migrants where we are rolling the dice based on what we are going to get.

I think it is a waste to have so many highly educated people who live good lifestyles and have the opportunity to bring in a new generation better than the previous who are either not having kids or producing very few, we need to have the discussion if propagation is the choice and responsibility of the individual or the community as a whole and if it is the community what needs to be done to ease the burden on prospective parents.

At present, it is every man and women for themselves, governments claim to support families but what is in place is too ineffectual to make people want to have families or have larger families.

I've enjoyed our discussions, I think it is better to have open discussions about these issues and I appreciate your input and respect your opinion. I think it is critical that we constantly question everything, try and broaden our understanding as best as we possibly can, people in political positions are motivated, sometimes for good reasons, other times for not-so-good reasons. It is critical that decisions are made based on fact and where information is sparse we push for more studies.

Anyway, happy holidays to everyone.

 

[tesseract]

Here's a piece from the American Psychological Association which confirms the gynocentric attitude in most people. It speaks of the gender preference/bias that both men and women have toward women. This piece also debunks the myth of 'The Patriarchy', too, considering that feminists believe that it's a conspiracy in that all males work as one mind to keep all women down and oppressed. This piece shows that males favor women over men, in contradiction to the feminist claim.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec04/women.aspx

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Still in need of firing one off, I see.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Now that tesseract is here this thread has jumped the shark.

Yep, as welcome as gastro on a 40 degree humid day.

 

[tesseract]

Top 10 feminist fiascoes of 2014

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opin...t-fiascoes-of-2014-20141219-story.html#page=1

"Rotherham: Now there was a real rape culture: nearly two decades of sexual assault, exploitation, and trafficking of teenage girls, mostly by British-Pakistani men, that had been covered up by British authorities for fear of stirring up anti-Islamic sentiment. The response of U.S. feminists was mostly crickets chirping. Why? Perhaps because the perpetrators weren’t the white middle-class men who are feminists’ preferred villains."

Feminism is a one-stop-shop for all your bigotry needs. Feminists need rape to continue in order to have an issue that keeps the money flowing to it, but is quite specific in who they target for the brunt of their wrath. The Pakistani men in this case being an ethnic minority in Britain, obviously being non-white as well, come under feminism-instituted victim umbrella as a class, hence being free from feminist hierarchy's selective censure.

 

[tesseract]

Here's an article for SRP's manginas and pandering white knights who hastily and without thought run to women and feminism's defense. The article and short video will even be beneficial to those purple-pillers who have some clue but are just one blowjob away...

Why Breaking Mr. Nice Guy’s Heart May Be The Best Decision Of Your Life

http://elitedaily.com/dating/nice-guys-heart-broken/871973/

Defeating the Inner Whiteknight



Towards the end of the video commentary on the above article a rather busty woman, model-esque in appearance, shares a simple, relevant and far too ignored by many a man, truth.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Dude if you ask them nicely, they might go and see a movie with you.

 

[Chief]

FDNY drops physical test requirement amid low female hiring rate

New York Post ... Good God.

Here's the actual situation:

allows probies to fail components of the Functional Skills Training test but still graduate from the Fire Academy,


After the hearing, Nigro said passing the skills tests had only been required of the two most recent classes — and not for any of the 15 years before.

“We still grade the people. You can still fail it if you go beyond the time, but you’re not automatically failed from the program,” he said.



So this test is comparatively new. Also nobody has said they'll be putting grossly unfit people on the front line.

There is no indication they won't help train the people up so they can pass, or use them elsewhere.

The FDNY does other things, too: school visits, training, paramedic services, all sorts of things that don't require the ability to move a tire.

Try again, kids, this one has no legs.

 

[telsor]

New York Post ... Good God.

Here's the actual situation:

allows probies to fail components of the Functional Skills Training test but still graduate from the Fire Academy,


After the hearing, Nigro said passing the skills tests had only been required of the two most recent classes — and not for any of the 15 years before.

“We still grade the people. You can still fail it if you go beyond the time, but you’re not automatically failed from the program,” he said.



So this test is comparatively new. Also nobody has said they'll be putting grossly unfit people on the front line.

There is no indication they won't help train the people up so they can pass, or use them elsewhere.

The FDNY does other things, too: school visits, training, paramedic services, all sorts of things that don't require the ability to move a tire.

Try again, kids, this one has no legs.

Source?

 

[tesseract]

25 men bullshitting about male privilege | part 1
by Karen Straughn, aka (GirlWritesWhat)



This is Karen's amusing take-down of 25 beta manginas in a Feminist Frequency (Anita Sarkeesian) video who're spouting feminist myths wrt gaming and online activities. What's also LOL-worthy is that these guys show that the stereotype of the male feminist is used with good reason. (Once you see the video you'll understand).

 

[Lester Burnham]

25 men bullshitting about male privilege | part 1
by Karen Straughn, aka (GirlWritesWhat)



This is Karen's amusing take-down of 25 beta manginas in a Feminist Frequency (Anita Sarkeesian) video who're spouting feminist myths wrt gaming and online activities. What's also LOL-worthy is that these guys show that the stereotype of the male feminist is used with good reason. (Once you see the video you'll understand).

Thanks for posting. Very funny. I'd like to buy this woman a vodka!

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

So we get another thread that acts as a link dump for a poster who shouldn't be trusted around women?

 

[fleabitten]

Karen Straughn is awesome.

 

[Lester Burnham]

So we get another thread that acts as a link dump for a poster who shouldn't be trusted around women?

They are relevant to the topic, unlike each of your posts in this thread.

 

[Chief]

Source?

THAT SAME ****ING ARTICLE!

Sorry - just wish people would read these things and summarise them accurately.

 

[telsor]

THAT SAME ******* ARTICLE!

Sorry - just wish people would read these things and summarise them accurately.

Sorry, fair call on that one.

 

[Chief]

FDNY drops physical test requirement amid low female hiring rate

Fire fighters who are not physically up to the job. What could go wrong?

The FST drills include advancing a heavy tire 6 to 8 feet, raising a ladder up a wall and breaching holes in a ceiling — while wearing an oxygen tank with a limited amount of air.

Nigro revealed the adjustments to the exam at a City Council hearing Wednesday where members questioned whether the skills test was responsible for the 10,500-member force including just 44 women.
​

Perhaps the AFL needs to bring in gender targets for each of the club's player lists.

Diversity > human lives

feels>reals

So... now that you know you got it pretty much wrong and fell for a NY Post (think Herald-Sun without the class) outrage headline without even reading the article, do you have any comment?

No?

Not surprised.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

It's good they're posting tabloid rubbish, and not rape fantasies.

 

[floodbuster]

WOW!!! to this thread. Nothing is fair or equal in this world for men or women, sounds simplistic because it is.