Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[clogged]

For only one gender though, yes?
Will Nadal be asked the same?

Male tennis players never strip down on court.

All part of the theatre.

 

[blackcat]

hmm. so because grand slams are paying equal prize money, combined with free market for sponsorship, the women players should expect the possibility to be objectified.... ?!

I think this issue is done, we can acknowledge it was out of line. We know that a man will never have to twirl, and that out of all the issues that could be discussed, this is probably at the lower end.

I think your major issue is with the euphemism "twirl". If Cohen asked to see the different perspectives and profile of the dress, and not used such "charged" idiom, because this sounds very "Gavin Hopper" idiom. google:Gavin Hopper if you are unaware of the tennis reference.

Cohen: "excuse me Eugenie, would you be generous to your female fans at home, who are fans of this Nike dress you are wearing, and exhibit some of the different profiles and silhouettes and perspectives of the dress. thankyou Genie."

Cohen was clumsy, he could have managed this setpiece, for the same end, being much more "aware" of the exigencies of the Clementine Ford crowd who were gonna be up in arms at the barricades.

I personally think, the scenario i painted, would have been equally as poor taste, and NOT for women even if sold this way, but I dont think it would have blown sky high in the controversy it has.

 

[cartwright]

eh, yeah ok. Again not quite the same

But you, too, know that.

 

[blackcat]

For only one gender though, yes?
Will Nadal be asked the same?

no, if I was a Nike exec, or an IMG manager, I would have the same specifications. If Nike wish for a JAck Thompson spread for Thanassi Kokkinakis, I would have it in the contract, and it would only be for $$$

 

[clogged]

eh, yeah ok. Again not quite the same

But you, too, know that.

It's definitely the same. Male sportsmen trade of their physical sexuality as much as sportswomen. Even more so. They project an image that appeals to both sexes. For men it's wear this Rolex [brand] and you'll appeal to women, just like I do. They sell sex appeal to women who want to ogle them and men who want to be them.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

For only one gender though, yes?
Will Nadal be asked the same?

When Dustin Martin got drafted he was asked in an interview if he would pull off his shirt to show off his tattoo and he was going to do it until a female PR intervened.

 

[cartwright]

I think your major issue is with the euphemism "twirl". If Cohen asked to see the different perspectives and profile of the dress, and not used such "charged" idiom, because this sounds very "Gavin Hopper" idiom. google:Gavin Hopper if you are unaware of the tennis reference.

Cohen: "excuse me Eugenie, would you be generous to your female fans at home, who are fans of this Nike dress you are wearing, and exhibit some of the different profiles and silhouettes and perspectives of the dress. thankyou Genie."

Cohen was clumsy, he could have managed this setpiece, for the same end, being much more "aware" of the exigencies of the Clementine Ford crowd who were gonna be up in arms at the barricades.

I personally think, the scenario i painted, would have been equally as poor taste, and NOT for women even if sold this way, but I dont think it would have blown sky high in the controversy it has.

I don't really have an "issue" with it.
My point is she was asked something that will never be asked of to a male player ...it made her uncomfortable...it was unnecessary .. Regardless of words used.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Firstly, yes it was inappropriate to ask her to do a twirl, and Cohen came across as slimy for asking it. She's a bloody tennis player FFS, not a ballet dancer.

But given the position this debate has reached - is it any different to the old grey haired woman that judges dancing with the stars fawning over Matt Cooper, who at times looked equally as uncomfortable/embarrassed as Bouchard?

Bouchard and Cooper are both hot, this much is obvious, and neither should be objectified because of it. But it does seem a touch hypocritical that there is so much uproar when one gender is objectified and not the other.

 

[blackcat]

eh, yeah ok. Again not quite the same

But you, too, know that.

but we have a dialogue on a higher, a meta level. We are not talking a dress. or a twirl, even the misogynistic language and idiom.

We are talking the corporal, the body, and how it is both objectified and commodified. And is it acceptable for the female body to be commodified, even when sponsorship contracts explicitly have commodified all aspects of the athlete.


If we wish to talk about a "twirl" this is not even a one page OP. This is a one reply OP. Men dont get a request to twirl.

But if you are the producer who hits the button to select which shots go to air if it is not during the commercial break, or if it is, replayed, at game and end change, or set changeover, and Nadal is taking his shirt off.

Am I a male producer in the production/editing room? yes. In this hypothetical, am I a man, and do I go to air with the pictures of Nadal taking his "nike" shirt off, during an Aus Open final, and NBC today might be taking your live stream camera selection, it goes out to 200 million, maybe if Europe take the same feed, an Asia, it might be 500million, pairs of eyeballs, do I, a hetero male, still put out a picture of his torso?

remember this is producer bean counter producer hamish mclachlan producer not blackcat harlequin qua harlequin.

I am the hamish mclachlan producer, i put out NAdal's upper torso, to the appreciation of circa ~100million female fans.

and this is what we are talking about. i dont wanna boof a tennis player, a male, nor a female. not interested.

 

[blackcat]

It's definitely the same. Male sportsmen trade of their physical sexuality as much as sportswomen. Even more so. They project an image that appeals to both sexes. For men it's wear this Rolex [brand] and you'll appeal to women, just like I do. They sell sex appeal to women who want to ogle them and men who want to be them.

my rolex is double looped to halve the circumference, much like i use my old Livestrong yellow Lance Armstrong wrist band, i double loop them, they fit as **** rings then to aid or prevent erectile dysfunction. making good use of old Lance Armstrong Livestrong wristbands.

 

[clogged]

my rolex is double looped to halve the circumference, much like i use my old Livestrong yellow Lance Armstrong wrist band, i double loop them, they fit as **** rings then to aid or prevent erectile dysfunction. making good use of old Lance Armstrong Livestrong wristbands.

check the preseason training threads on club boards for the worst of it. gun/rig/quad/calf admiration from middle aged men over early 20s men. it's as if Ancient Greece never ended

 

[blackcat]

When Dustin Martin got drafted he was asked in an interview if he would pull off his shirt to show off his tattoo and he was going to do it until a female PR intervened.

imagine the female PRs role in the pre-season and summer training sessions?

imagine the female PR at Gosch's paddock circa 2004 with the Collingwood training homo robocoprotic of Brodie Holland and Paul Licuria and Shane Woewowowowowodin

they loved their chests, they loved their chests waxed, the loved each others chests, they loved massage oils, they loved their chests

 

[blackcat]

check the preseason training threads on club boards for the worst of it. gun/rig/quad/calf admiration from middle aged men over early 20s men. it's as if Ancient Greece never ended

you beat me by about 30 seconds.

vascularity, cut (where else could one use such descriptions? ur local mohel?) fill out, bulk up, weights, guns, Tazz's guns.

In Tazz' devils advocate and defense, he did have the best triceps besides SanAntonio's David Robinson no homo outside Olympic Sports.

This has become very Bruce McAvaney (my highlight of LA rings (sic) was seeing the physique of Carl Lewis)

 

[cartwright]

but we have a dialogue on a higher, a meta level. We are not talking a dress. or a twirl, even the misogynistic language and idiom.

We are talking the corporal, the body, and how it is both objectified and commodified. And is it acceptable for the female body to be commodified, even when sponsorship contracts explicitly have commodified all aspects of the athlete.


If we wish to talk about a "twirl" this is not even a one page OP. This is a one reply OP. Men dont get a request to twirl.

But if you are the producer who hits the button to select which shots go to air if it is not during the commercial break, or if it is, replayed, at game and end change, or set changeover, and Nadal is taking his shirt off.

Am I a male producer in the production/editing room? yes. In this hypothetical, am I a man, and do I go to air with the pictures of Nadal taking his "nike" shirt off, during an Aus Open final, and NBC today might be taking your live stream camera selection, it goes out to 200 million, maybe if Europe take the same feed, an Asia, it might be 500 pairs of eyeballs, do I, a hetero male, still put out a picture of his torso?

remember this is producer bean counter producer hamish mclachlan producer not blackcat harlequin qua harlequin.

I am the hamish mclachlan producer, i put out NAdal's upper torso, to the appreciation of circa ~100million female fans.

and this is what we are talking about. i dont wanna boof a tennis player, a male, nor a female. not interested.

Yes, except Nadal taking his shirt off on court is well aware that could be broadcast.
I understand your point. Sex sells. She on the other hand didn't twirl (skip, handstand, whatever) Out of her own choice. She played a game of tennis. She won. She was then asked a ridiculous question from a so called tennis person.

 

[blackcat]

Yes, except Nadal taking his shirt off on court is well aware that could be broadcast.
I understand your point. Sex sells. She on the other hand didn't twirl (skip, handstand, whatever) Out of her own choice. She played a game of tennis. She won. She was then asked a ridiculous question from a so called tennis person.

yep, you are correct.

and she is well compensated for such contempt. Does she have a price to play to such contempt? Lets wait and see if she signs back on with an international sportswear firm that will be paying her millions per year.

The twirl is fungible, the twirl has value. She will never want for money. Her children, if she has children will never want for money. Even if she does not have a sportswear manufacturer. She will still earn in vicinity, of 10 million US. P'raps more.

So lets see if she determines her twirl as fungible?

devils advocate: just p'raps, Genie, has gone back to her hotel room at Crown or Gran Hyatt, and thought, no, I will not accede to any stupid requests that sexualise me by reporters and commentators like Cohen and Hammer Mclachlan. (and I am empathetic to Cohen in this scenario, he was merely dimwitted and clumsy, he is not the pantsman of McLachlan or Sam Newman), and neither was Eddie McGuire when he had the King Kong comment about Goodes. McGuire, is always thinking promotion, advertising, marketing, money, and ratings. He never thought about the charged nature of King Kong as motif. So he had a simple brain fade. He aint that stupid. Cohen, was merely clumsy.

my point, I am not saying either or, Nike or International Sportswear or no sponsor, Genie I am sure, will consider this scenario with Cohen, and reject the next one. This will empower her. Just like Cohen will never tread into this minefield again. So she can sign for Nike, but her management may be a little more strict in the fineprint, of what she will do, how she will be marketed, and how they will sell her. Will she wear the January dress the debut on the stars, or will she just wear an under the radar Nike dress.

I think this will empower her.

And I think this was a bit of a backhander about Cohen "old man" journo. What is Cohen? 43? 42? He aint old, but he aint young. He is only a year or two older than DiCaprio, and DiCaprio dates (roots) models of 19yo, and he is a walking talking hive of syphilus

 

[blackcat]

This has become very Bruce McAvaney (my highlight of LA rings (sic) was seeing the physique of Carl Lewis)

but not as much of Carl's physique as Thorpie in Sydney eh Bruce.

 

[blackcat]

remember the lazy susan rotisserie at the brownlow red blue carpet cartwright
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-misses-the-mark/story-fn422eni-1226147314218

 

[blackcat]

Firstly, yes it was inappropriate to ask her to do a twirl, and Cohen came across as slimy for asking it. She's a bloody tennis player FFS, not a ballet dancer.

But given the position this debate has reached - is it any different to the old grey haired woman that judges dancing with the stars fawning over Matt Cooper, who at times looked equally as uncomfortable/embarrassed as Bouchard?

Bouchard and Cooper are both hot, this much is obvious, and neither should be objectified because of it. But it does seem a touch hypocritical that there is so much uproar when one gender is objectified and not the other.

phhhwwoooooar! he would do good on grindr poor grammar just alliterations

no roids brah, full natty brah

 

[cartwright]

remember the lazy susan rotisserie at the brownlow red blue carpet cartwright
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-misses-the-mark/story-fn422eni-1226147314218

I never saw it, but recall the response...
Pfft as if Richo or mc Lachlan know anything about women's fashion.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

phhhwwoooooar! he would do good on grindr poor grammar just alliterations

no roids brah, full natty brah

Yep, wouldn't mind getting a twirl out of him in this shot...

 

[blackcat]

I never saw it, but recall the response...
Pfft as if Richo or mc Lachlan know anything about women's fashion.

atleast Richo is harmless. think he knows more about mens fashion, just sayin

 

[cartwright]

atleast Richo is harmless. think he knows more about mens fashion, just sayin

Haha. I'd agree with that.

 

[Cmarsh]

Are we pretending that an act of objectification of a male by a female is as harmful as the other way around?

Ellen DeGeneres' repeated objectification of her on set Gardner is an interesting case in male sexual objectification.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Ellen DeGeneres' repeated objectification of her on set Gardner is an interesting case in male sexual objectification.

So we are still pretending that a) objectification of males is as dangerous as vice versa and b) as prevalent?

 

[Cmarsh]

So we are still pretending that a) objectification of males is as dangerous as vice versa and b) as prevalent?

Define dangerous. Both are still reducing gender down to sexual objectification.