Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[Bostonian]

He should have used the word whore instead. Whore these days is a multi-gendered and multifaceted word.

 

[DemonTim]

Yep and that is a personal situation between you and your girlfriend and quite irrelevant.
The intent of the man who used that word re Ford was clear-its literal definition and the implications of that. He intended to insult. Your girlfriend didn't ( well presumably!)

I insult my best mate by it. I assume you're of the older generation?
It's also used a hell of a lot in the gay world. I'd say more than ok reference to women these days

 

[DemonTim]

Yep and that is a personal situation between you and your girlfriend and quite irrelevant.
The intent of the man who used that word re Ford was clear-its literal definition and the implications of that. He intended to insult. Your girlfriend didn't ( well presumably!)

so campaigner with intent to insult isn't as bad a **** with intent to insult? Again try this in the real world. I think you'll find you're wrong

 

[Lester Burnham]

Camille Paglia is very good.

Recent interview with her in Spiked.

The problem with too much current feminism, in my opinion, is that even when it strikes progressive poses, it emanates from an entitled, upper-middle-class point of view. It demands the intrusion and protection of paternalistic authority figures to project a hypothetical utopia that will be magically free from offence and hurt. Its rampant policing of thought and speech is completely reactionary, a gross betrayal of the radical principles of 1960s counterculture, which was inaugurated in the US by the incendiary Free Speech Movement at the University of California at Berkeley.

I am continually shocked and dismayed by the nearly Victorian notions promulgated by today’s feminists about the fragility of women and their naïve helplessness in asserting control over their own dating lives. Female undergraduates incapable of negotiating the oafish pleasures and perils of campus fraternity parties are hardly prepared to win leadership positions in business or government in the future.​

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/feminist-trouble/17688#.VmoC79J97IU

 

[romeohwho]

so campaigner with intent to insult isn't as bad a **** with intent to insult? Again try this in the real world. I think you'll find you're wrong

Nope using campaigner with intent is lousy, it can be a mean and nasty. But it is still not associated with the moral dimension/ failure of character that **** has. Its a simple thing to acknowledge.

 

[DemonTim]

Nope using campaigner with intent is lousy, it can be a mean and nasty. But it is still not associated with the moral dimension/ failure of character that **** has.

Of course it can be. It is most often used about the persons character and morals. Hilarious
As I said. Try it in the real world. See if people care less about being called a campaigner.

 

[romeohwho]

Of course it can be. It is most often used about the persons character and morals. Hilarious
As I said. Try it in the real world. See if people care less about being called a campaigner.

Nope-campaigner just generally means I don't agree with your opinions, or I think you are a dope, or you are dumb, or I don't like you etc . And have no doubt in certain scenarios people do care about being called one.
Nonetheless, If you can't recognize the difference, can't help you, soz.
How you and your mates and your girlfriends use the word is not relevant. The use of that word in this context contained definite intent.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Recent interview with her in Spiked.

The problem with too much current feminism, in my opinion, is that even when it strikes progressive poses, it emanates from an entitled, upper-middle-class point of view. It demands the intrusion and protection of paternalistic authority figures to project a hypothetical utopia that will be magically free from offence and hurt. Its rampant policing of thought and speech is completely reactionary, a gross betrayal of the radical principles of 1960s counterculture, which was inaugurated in the US by the incendiary Free Speech Movement at the University of California at Berkeley.

I am continually shocked and dismayed by the nearly Victorian notions promulgated by today’s feminists about the fragility of women and their naïve helplessness in asserting control over their own dating lives. Female undergraduates incapable of negotiating the oafish pleasures and perils of campus fraternity parties are hardly prepared to win leadership positions in business or government in the future.​

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/feminist-trouble/17688#.VmoC79J97IU

Mate I am a fan of her academic work but she is the American Greer - she says stuff to get attention. I can recommend her anthology of Western poetry though

 

[DemonTim]

Nope-campaigner just generally means I don't agree with your opinions, or I think you are a dope, or you are dumb, or I don't like you etc . And have no doubt in certain scenarios people do care about being called one.
Nonetheless, If you can't recognize the difference, can't help you, soz.
How you and your mates and your girlfriends use the word is not relevant. The use of that word in this context contained definite intent.

So you call someone a campaigner because they are dumb. I'd say you need help. I only hear the word when someone is a particularly bad person. Or as a joke between mates
And we aren't talking about this specific case, but if we were, it's not less horrible to call her a campaigner than a ****. Moronic attitude.
I hear guys called sluts more than girls these days. I'm guessing you're older generationally

 

[romeohwho]

So you call someone a campaigner because they are dumb. I'd say you need help. I only hear the word when someone is a particularly bad person. Or as a joke between mates
And we aren't talking about this specific case, but if we were, it's not less horrible to call her a campaigner than a ****. Moronic attitude.
I hear guys called sluts more than girls these days. I'm guessing you're older generationally

Yawn-you continue, to presumably wilfully, miss the point.

 

[DemonTim]

Yawn-you continue, to presumably wilfully, miss the point.

No I can see your point. It's just untrue. Blah blah morals blah blah **** is worse blah blah campaigner is just another word for stupid.

 

[swiftdog]

Take a look at Clementine Ford's Facebook page and the people calling her 'campaigner' and ****. Does anyone really think that they're thinking 'do I want to insult Ford by insinuating that I don't agree with her opinions or that she has sex with lots of men?' They're both used as generic insults nowadays despite what they might have meant years back or what the dictionary definition is. Yes, **** still carries sexual connotations while campaigner I've considered to be an attack on someone's morals. I.e. "you are a campaigner!" Regardless, I think the point remains that the two words are used to insult and nowadays people use them without necessarily thinking of the connotations they carry. Like the people on Ford's page, most likely thinking that the use of those two words will piss her off and that's it. As for which is worse, I've always considered campaigner to be the worse of the two.

 

[Maggie5]

Take a look at Clementine Ford's Facebook page and the people calling her 'campaigner' and ****. Does anyone really think that they're thinking 'do I want to insult Ford by insinuating that I don't agree with her opinions or that she has sex with lots of men?' They're both used as generic insults nowadays despite what they might have meant years back or what the dictionary definition is. Yes, **** still carries sexual connotations while campaigner I've considered to be an attack on someone's morals. I.e. "you are a campaigner!" Regardless, I think the point remains that the two words are used to insult and nowadays people use them without necessarily thinking of the connotations they carry. Like the people on Ford's page, most likely thinking that the use of those two words will piss her off and that's it. As for which is worse, I've always considered campaigner to be the worse of the two.

Never really understood what 'campaigner' meant. Thought it was meant as an insult but more like hopeless, useless, what would you know type of meaning.

**** implies to me a female that has loose morals, sexually promiscuous.

 

[swiftdog]

Never really understood what 'campaigner' meant. Thought it was meant as an insult but more like hopeless, useless, what would you know type of meaning.

**** implies to me a female that has loose morals, sexually promiscuous.

Agree on **** but come to think of it, I think 'campaigner' has many meanings depending on the intention/delivery:

"He's a useless campaigner." Definition as you defined it.
"Cheers campaigner." Substitute for 'mate' I guess
"He's a loose campaigner." Person that acted outside of social norms?
"You're an absolute campaigner." Attack on someone in a 'shit person' type of way.

 

[Chief]

He should have used the word whore instead. Whore these days is a multi-gendered and multifaceted word.

Yes he should have taken the time to consider the current gender-based lexicon before he flapped his fingers at the keyboard. That might have saved his job.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Mate I am a fan of her academic work but she is the American Greer - she says stuff to get attention. I can recommend her anthology of Western poetry though

Feel free to quote her, perhaps from say a recent interview, so we can discuss her views rather than waffle about a vague representation of them.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Feel free to quote her, perhaps from say a recent interview, so we can discuss her views rather than waffle about a vague representation of them.

OK what about this for an over the top generality

The situation right now is that we have on one side people who consider themselves leftists but to me, as far as academe is concerned, are phonies, people who have absolutely no credentials for political thinking, have no training in history, whose basic claim to politics is simply that nothing has happened to them in their lives. A lot of these people have money. I'm sick and tired of these New Historicists with trust funds. I'm so sick and tired of it. And because they're pampered, their whole lives have been comfortable, because they've kissed asses all the way to the top, they have to show they're authentic by pretending sympathy for the poor lower classes, the poor victims.

So there is no such thing as a true leftist academic in the whole United States academy . She has become a schill for the establishment - she's GuruJane and I have actually read Sexual Personae (she is a Birther http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-congress/2009/09/paglias-a-birther-021461) . Apparently her working class credentials come from the fact she is an Italian American from the Bronx sixty years ago

 

[romeohwho]

Recent interview with her in Spiked.

The problem with too much current feminism, in my opinion, is that even when it strikes progressive poses, it emanates from an entitled, upper-middle-class point of view. It demands the intrusion and protection of paternalistic authority figures to project a hypothetical utopia that will be magically free from offence and hurt. Its rampant policing of thought and speech is completely reactionary, a gross betrayal of the radical principles of 1960s counterculture, which was inaugurated in the US by the incendiary Free Speech Movement at the University of California at Berkeley.

I am continually shocked and dismayed by the nearly Victorian notions promulgated by today’s feminists about the fragility of women and their naïve helplessness in asserting control over their own dating lives. Female undergraduates incapable of negotiating the oafish pleasures and perils of campus fraternity parties are hardly prepared to win leadership positions in business or government in the future.​

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/feminist-trouble/17688#.VmoC79J97IU

Yep, but the fact remains that college campuses are pretty challenging place to negotiate when so many people behave badly. If your drink is spiked-what, its your fault for not taking enough care? What do you suggest-never look away from your drink? Have you been in a social situation where you have to keep an eye on your drink at all times? Not that easy and surely most people's natural inclination is to trust and think the best of others?

 

[CbayT]

OK what about this for an over the top generality

The situation right now is that we have on one side people who consider themselves leftists but to me, as far as academe is concerned, are phonies, people who have absolutely no credentials for political thinking, have no training in history, whose basic claim to politics is simply that nothing has happened to them in their lives. A lot of these people have money. I'm sick and tired of these New Historicists with trust funds. I'm so sick and tired of it. And because they're pampered, their whole lives have been comfortable, because they've kissed asses all the way to the top, they have to show they're authentic by pretending sympathy for the poor lower classes, the poor victims.

So there is no such thing as a true leftist academic in the whole United States academy . She has become a schill for the establishment - she's GuruJane and I have actually read Sexual Personae (she is a Birther http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-congress/2009/09/paglias-a-birther-021461) . Apparently her working class credentials come from the fact she is an Italian American from the Bronx sixty years ago

That's sounds like a description of the uni of Sydney political economics department back in the day spot on actually. Yanis Varoufakis made an appearance.

I would of thought uni of Melb would have something similar

 

[Lester Burnham]

OK what about this for an over the top generality

The situation right now is that we have on one side people who consider themselves leftists but to me, as far as academe is concerned, are phonies, people who have absolutely no credentials for political thinking, have no training in history, whose basic claim to politics is simply that nothing has happened to them in their lives. A lot of these people have money. I'm sick and tired of these New Historicists with trust funds. I'm so sick and tired of it. And because they're pampered, their whole lives have been comfortable, because they've kissed asses all the way to the top, they have to show they're authentic by pretending sympathy for the poor lower classes, the poor victims.

Golf clap. When I asked you to quote her from a recent interview you cherry picked a paragraph from something she wrote in 1991. Maybe that's why you didn't reference it. It was probably one of the least significant sections of that essay. Here is her full speech.

http://gos.sbc.edu/p/paglia.html

 

[Lester Burnham]

Yep, but the fact remains that college campuses are pretty challenging place to negotiate when so many people behave badly. If your drink is spiked-what, its your fault for not taking enough care? What do you suggest-never look away from your drink? Have you been in a social situation where you have to keep an eye on your drink at all times? Not that easy and surely most people's natural inclination is to trust and think the best of others?

There has not been a campus environment yet that has tolerated drink spiking. How is this relevant?

 

[romeohwho]

There has not been a campus environment yet that has tolerated drink spiking. How is this relevant?

Soz Lester. I thought when your mate Camille wrote 'Female undergraduates incapable of negotiating the oafish pleasures and perils of campus fraternity parties are hardly prepared to win leadership positions in business or government in the future.' she was suggesting that girls on campus get into trouble because they are incapable of looking after themselves, so aren't great ads for 'feminism'.
So I thought that was a bit rich given the prevalence of nasty stuff on campuses. And that undergraduates are probably entitled to go to parties and have a bit of fun without being assaulted? Or insulted, in Camille's case.
How is that not relevant?

 

[PetrikDngerfild]

Researchers studied women and men using fMRI during wayfinding tasks in a recently learned virtual environment. Men consistently performed better than women. When women were given a drop of testosterone under their tongue, however, their ability to orient themselves along the four cardinal directions improved.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151207081824.htm

Imagine being lost in the jungle with your girlfriend arguing which way to go. And having to concede your fate to feminst entitlement

 

[Lester Burnham]

Soz Lester. I thought when your mate Camille wrote 'Female undergraduates incapable of negotiating the oafish pleasures and perils of campus fraternity parties are hardly prepared to win leadership positions in business or government in the future.' she was suggesting that girls on campus get into trouble because they are incapable of looking after themselves, so aren't great ads for 'feminism'.
So I thought that was a bit rich given the prevalence of nasty stuff on campuses. And that undergraduates are probably entitled to go to parties and have a bit of fun without being assaulted? Or insulted, in Camille's case.
How is that not relevant?

It's not relevant because like I said, there has never been a campus environment that has tolerated drink spiking. It is illegal and is matter for police and the courts.

She's speaking out against the 'infantilizing supervision of student dating policies' where colleges set out rules for interactions between students and have committees to look into transgressions of the rules. These rules go beyond that set out in statutes or other standards for the rest of society.

 

[evo]

evo - let me know when you want to engage with the questions rather than just post boring, shallow garbage.

Sorry I didn't jump immediately when you posted but been a bit busy - l I've go time your highness if that's ok.
-Yes, I do think she went over the top reposting his boss could see it. You said you wouldn't have done it personally. So it appears you agree with me, at least in part. As I said, she copped some pixels, he lost his livelihood.

-I don't know if he would've shouted **** at her if she walked by in the street.

-Would my what do anything in the same situation? I don't understand that one.

-your questions were pretty banal, IMO.