Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[evo]

So there is no such thing as a true leftist academic in the whole United States academy . She has become a schill for the establishment -

Dude, upholding thirdwave feminist doctrine is the Establishment nowdays. Hence Clementine Ford writing for our most popular mainstream broadsheet.

Paglia is the radical.

 

[Chief]

It wasn't an impatient order, just an addendum to the post previous.

Sorry I didn't jump immediately when you posted butl I've go time your highness, I've been a bit busy if thats ok with you.

-Yes, I do think she went over the top reposting his boss could see it. You said you wouldn't have done it personally. So it appears you agree with me, at least in part. As I said, she copped some pixels, he lost his livliehood.

-I don't know if he would've shouted **** at her if she walked by in the street.

-Would my what do anything in the same situation? I don't understand that one.

-your questions were pretty banal, IMO.

You've changed. Too much hanging around gyms is turning you into an intolerant douchebag, I fear

He can get another job. And (if he had a social media policy in his contract) he can read his contract a bit better next time. I have no real problem with a classic racist, sexist douchebag type being taught that freedom of speech comes with responsibilities. I just wouldn't be bothered to be the one dobbing him in to the teacher.

My main issue is with the employer. Is it a worry that employers can start dictating how people can act outside of work? (If he posted the material outside of work and not during the day)

What makes the street different to the internet? If you think that is a banal question I fear for your integration into the 21st century.

"I don't know who is employer" - I was smart enough (IT degree = super duper smart; some law subjects = nothing special) to work out you meant "his"

"Would yours do anything in the same situation?" - Obviously talking about the employer. Meddy says you need to do a proper degree because you no smarty.

So: Would your employer sack you for publicly posting a stream of racist and misogynistic posts with their name displayed on the page?

Guardianistas always cut up rough when their hypocrisy is pointed out. She isn't bad for a pigeon flyer (has a maths degree so tipping far more intelligent than the usual talking heads on the ABC with their shitty Arts degrees)

"But Fairfax columnist Clementine Ford has called me a “f**ing campaigner” on twitter and she still has a job.

Convicted criminal and terrorist sympathiser Zaky Mallah can incite gang rape and threaten the safety of female journalists and he is feted by the ABC and SBS."

"Feted"? Divine is not an honest person. In fact, I'd say she's a ****ing campaigner. Convicted racist Andrew Bolt is on the staff at her own paper. No complaints?

False equivalence abounds in the arguments of so many of the conservatives. The only real black and white statement you could make here is that Miranda Devine is a ****ing campaigner.

Is there a difference between a journalist and known figure insulting another known figure, and some random person doing the same, including rape threats etc?

Did Ford chase random people around threatening to harm them or did she just call into question the personalities and motivations of other idiots in the media? Does this matter?

 

[evo]

It wasn't an impatient order, just an addendum to the post previous.

You've changed. Too much hanging around gyms is turning you into an intolerant douchebag, I fear

Nope, still the same I'm still very tolerant. Call me a **** and you watch it slide right off.

Unfortuanlty havent been to a gym in nearly 12months, BTW. Hand injury, awaiting an operation.

Why amjI the douchebag?Youre the one that started on me. calling my posts shallow and demanding answers!

My main issue is with the employer. Is it a worry that employers can start dictating how people can act outside of work? (If he posted the material outside of work and not during the day)

Yeah I don't like it much either, but it seems to me they've been backed into a corner by the social engineering types. Brand protection is everything - cant be seen not to be towing the correct line.

You watch Richmond jump through hoops now this Dusty thing has blown right up. There's busybodies to appease.

What makes the street different to the internet? If you think that is a banal question I fear for your integration into the 21st century.

I think saying it to someone's face is a little different to something left on a twitter account, it doesn't seem as a egregious . But that's just my opinion.

By the way I was out on the 'street' driving Uber last night. Lots of drunk people as you would imagine. I saw a very drunk woman call her boyfriend a lot worse than ****. In fact a guy called me a lost worse that '****' just because Uber charge him surge prices. I just laughd. Do you reckon it would've been good form for me to film it and then email it to his boss?

"Would yours do anything in the same situation?" - Obviously talking about the employer. Meddy says you need to do a proper degree because you no smarty.

Meh, I have more degrees than MedsI think he only has a economics degree. Everyone has one of them don't they?

So: Would your employer sack you for publicly posting a stream of racist and misogynistic posts with their name displayed on the page?

I've always been self employed/ lazy, overeducated layabout. Last real job was 30 years ago.

 

[skipper kelly]

I've always been self employed/ lazy, overeducated layabout. Last real job was 30 years ago.

Sounds good.

Personally I'm maxing out my HECS/Fee Help quota before the liver gives out.

 

[evo]

good plan, mate.

 

[skipper kelly]

good plan, mate.

My new motto.
"It's not what I can do for the Government, it's what the Government can do for me."


ps. Call me a HECS ****.

 

[Lester Burnham]

He can get another job. And (if he had a social media policy in his contract) he can read his contract a bit better next time. I have no real problem with a classic racist, sexist douchebag type being taught that freedom of speech comes with responsibilities. I just wouldn't be bothered to be the one dobbing him in to the teacher.

My main issue is with the employer. Is it a worry that employers can start dictating how people can act outside of work? (If he posted the material outside of work and not during the day)

The supervisor of an apartment block would not have had a social media policy in his contract - and neither should they. Fairfax as a major media organisation does have such a policy. Yet it is the little man with a couple of comments on Facebook, not the powerful major media representative who is taught a lesson 'that freedom of speech comes with responsibilities'. What are Ford's responsibilities in this regard? She is abusing the power of her position in the media to bully people so that they lose their jobs because she was offended by something they said. She's a campaigner.

 

[Chief]

The supervisor of an apartment block would not have had a social media policy in his contract - and neither should they. Fairfax as a major media organisation does have such a policy. Yet it is the little man with a couple of comments on Facebook, not the powerful major media representative who is taught a lesson 'that freedom of speech comes with responsibilities'. What are Ford's responsibilities in this regard? She is abusing the power of her position in the media to bully people so that they lose their jobs because she was offended by something they said. She's a campaigner.

It was more than a couple of comments, though.

Meriton, as a very large company, would likely have those sort of contracts. Stuff like disparagement etc.

Meriton sacked him, not Ford.

You know the name Triguboff, right? The dude with a net worth of an estimated $10b.

But let's focus on some imagined abuse of power by a journalist. Who didn't actually sack anyone.

If the sacking was unfair, the guy has rights to take it further.

 

[Bostonian]

If this case proves anything it's that Ford and her like minded contemporaries need to stop pushing the very popular phrase "the Patriarchy" as a reason for anything.

Clearly she benefits from the kyriarchy system which has allowed her to use her privilege to highlight this case and see it to the conclusion she would be grinning over.

 

[romeohwho]

It's not relevant because like I said, there has never been a campus environment that has tolerated drink spiking. It is illegal and is matter for police and the courts.

She's speaking out against the 'infantilizing supervision of student dating policies' where colleges set out rules for interactions between students and have committees to look into transgressions of the rules. These rules go beyond that set out in statutes or other standards for the rest of society.

Yep, but she isn't she also casting aspersions on young students inabilities to protect themselves, and so be in need of 'paternalistic authority figures' to protect them?
Which strikes me as coming at it from the wrong place. Why do young women need this protection? How do they get sexually assaulted so often on campus ( oh yep=spiked drinks etc).
And am certainly hoping she has concerns about the leadership potential of the young men who assault so many young women on campus. I would have thought their leadership potential was more at issue. e.g. a young women who 'allows herself' to be tricked? Or a young man who does the tricking and the assaulting? Has she written about that somewhere?

 

[cartwright]

The supervisor of an apartment block would not have had a social media policy in his contract - and neither should they. Fairfax as a major media organisation does have such a policy. Yet it is the little man with a couple of comments on Facebook, not the powerful major media representative who is taught a lesson 'that freedom of speech comes with responsibilities'. What are Ford's responsibilities in this regard? She is abusing the power of her position in the media to bully people so that they lose their jobs because she was offended by something they said. She's a campaigner.

Just went to fords Facebook page to see what she posts.

Saw something..a post about the abuse of women, with disabilities.

Someone, by the name ."wincent larrson"... Wrote: "don't matter what you do. You are still a ****"

Explain why this comment was necessary, and why she should tolerate it?

 

[Lester Burnham]

Just went to fords Facebook page to see what she posts.

Saw something..a post about the abuse of women, with disabilities.

Someone, by the name ."wincent larrson"... Wrote: "don't matter what you do. You are still a ****"

Explain why this comment was necessary, and why she should tolerate it?

She shouldn't have to tolerate it. I think Facebook should do more to police its own website such as blocking people who are abusive. But it is hypocritical of Ford to complain about it, and use her power to get someone sacked, when she routinely dishes out abuse herself, including foul comments about other women.

 

[Bostonian]

She shouldn't have to tolerate it. I think Facebook should do more to police its own website such as blocking people who are abusive. But it is hypocritical of Ford to complain about it, and use her power to get someone sacked, when she routinely dishes out abuse herself, including foul comments about other women.

That's the kyriarchy in full effect.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Dude, upholding thirdwave feminist doctrine is the Establishment nowdays. Hence Clementine Ford writing for our most popular mainstream broadsheet.

Paglia is the radical.

Not a big fan of the Clementine mania - amazing how easy it is to be called "brave" these days. Its easy to say "back in my day" we were more authentic - I am not a big fan of gross generalisations which is her specialty.

 

[cartwright]

She shouldn't have to tolerate it. I think Facebook should do more to police its own website such as blocking people who are abusive. But it is hypocritical of Ford to complain about it, and use her power to get someone sacked, when she routinely dishes out abuse herself, including foul comments about other women.

So, she should report it to Facebook?
And what would be reasonable action from
Facebook?

As far as I know, the company decided on the course of action, and that she only communicated the incident, after they sacked him (& at their request). So, how was it her "power".
They really could have dealt with it in house.

I'm no fan of Ford. But, I do find it really interesting that someone went out of their way to abuse someone, and she's the one at fault in the eyes of some of you... -

 

[Docker Alyssa]

I'm no fan of Ford. But, I do find it really interesting that someone went out of their way to abuse someone, and she's the one at fault in the eyes of some of you... -

I can't speak for others. But for me the factor is she didn't do the courses of actions that are within an ethical paradigm (report to facebook, contact police). She, a 'professional', chose to use social media bully tactics to counter the fact he is an arseh*le. Eye for an eye.... She did not act the "bigger man", person, or whatever.

She has literally no more integrity as a person than he does, yet most people side with her because: feminist woman?

And these days thats some kind of brave thing, even though free thinking logical people, the majority don't believe that women are brought down by men in western countries. Nor would being called a sl*t be something that should impact a strong person, or result in the word-slinger to have their livelihood and potentially their entire working life jeopardised.

If he came at her with sticks and stones.......But (especially anonymous) words should never hurt her.

 

[romeohwho]

I can't speak for others. But for me the factor is she didn't do the courses of actions that are within an ethical paradigm (report to facebook, contact police). She, a 'professional', chose to use social media bully tactics to counter the fact he is an arseh*le. Eye for an eye.... She did not act the "bigger man", person, or whatever.

She has literally no more integrity as a person than he does, yet most people side with her because: feminist woman?

And these days thats some kind of brave thing, even though free thinking logical people, the majority don't believe that women are brought down by men in western countries. Nor would being called a sl*t be something that should impact a strong person, or result in the word-slinger to have their livelihood and potentially their entire working life jeopardised.

If he came at her with sticks and stones.......But (especially anonymous) words should never hurt her.

The old saying sticks and stones is rubbish in any case. One can recover from a broken arm but words that hurt can last forever. Brave is an overly used word and Ford is not brave as such but she certainly stands up to people and that isn't always an easy path. She cops a lot of nasty abuse.
Perhaps she doesn't have integrity, perhaps she had other options but its still surprising to me, that despite your claims to the counter, many people on here see her as the bad guy in this scenario.
Disagree, don't abuse. Its so simple.

 

[cartwright]

The old saying sticks and stones is rubbish in any case. One can recover from a broken arm but words that hurt can last forever. Brave is an overly used word and Ford is not brave as such but she certainly stands up to people and that isn't always an easy path. She cops a lot of nasty abuse.
Perhaps she doesn't have integrity, perhaps she had other options but its still surprising to me, that despite your claims to the counter, many people on here see her as the bad guy in this scenario.
Disagree, don't abuse. Its so simple.

This is the thing.. I don't think she's always in the right.. some things I don't agree with.. But many here, can't look at this issue objectively and say "nah, actually, the guy was an idiot, and brought it on himself".

 

[Bostonian]

The old saying sticks and stones is rubbish in any case. One can recover from a broken arm but words that hurt can last forever. Brave is an overly used word and Ford is not brave as such but she certainly stands up to people and that isn't always an easy path. She cops a lot of nasty abuse.
Perhaps she doesn't have integrity, perhaps she had other options but its still surprising to me, that despite your claims to the counter, many people on here see her as the bad guy in this scenario.
Disagree, don't abuse. Its so simple.

That's because she knows she has the whole system on her side. She's a click bait journo who knows through her own privileged position that if anyone does anything against her she has far more power than they do to deal with it.

She's a Wolf pretending to be a sheep.

 

[kickazz]

A win for feminism on a grander scale overnight with the elections in Saudi Arabia. Not only the first time that women can vote, but also stand as candidates.

Saudi Arabians have voted 17 women into public office in municipal elections in the conservative Islamic kingdom, the first to allow female participation, local media reports say.

The election was the first in which women could vote and run as candidates, a landmark step in a country where women are barred from driving and are legally dependent on a male relative to approve almost all their major life decisions.

I don't know how much this will improve the lot of women in the Kingdom generally, but I suppose one must start somewhere and agency in the democratic process is a good as any place to do that. Given the numbers elected are a surprise, will be interesting to watch this space to see if there are any efforts from the very conservative nation to try and pull back for fear of things changing to quickly.

Question is, where to from here? Do the elected representatives push for more rights and independence for women now, or do they need to play the slow game and gradually build up some influence first, in one of the world's wealthiest, but also oppressive, countries?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

The response to Ford's actions have been so predictable on this site, the only thing that surprises me is that none of the nutters have pondered 'what was she wearing when he called her a ****?'

 

[CbayT]

The response to Ford's actions have been so predictable on this site, the only thing that surprises me is that none of the nutters have pondered 'what was she wearing when he called her a ****?'

Nice generalisation

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Nice generalisation

What do you mean?

 

[WA ROO]

A win for feminism on a grander scale overnight with the elections in Saudi Arabia. Not only the first time that women can vote, but also stand as candidates.



I don't know how much this will improve the lot of women in the Kingdom generally, but I suppose one must start somewhere and agency in the democratic process is a good as any place to do that. Given the numbers elected are a surprise, will be interesting to watch this space to see if there are any efforts from the very conservative nation to try and pull back for fear of things changing to quickly.

Question is, where to from here? Do the elected representatives push for more rights and independence for women now, or do they need to play the slow game and gradually build up some influence first, in one of the world's wealthiest, but also oppressive, countries?

I would think that there will be some push back from the clerics and old school hardliners
The women involved will be playing the long game

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

A win for feminism on a grander scale overnight with the elections in Saudi Arabia. Not only the first time that women can vote, but also stand as candidates.



I don't know how much this will improve the lot of women in the Kingdom generally, but I suppose one must start somewhere and agency in the democratic process is a good as any place to do that. Given the numbers elected are a surprise, will be interesting to watch this space to see if there are any efforts from the very conservative nation to try and pull back for fear of things changing to quickly.

Question is, where to from here? Do the elected representatives push for more rights and independence for women now, or do they need to play the slow game and gradually build up some influence first, in one of the world's wealthiest, but also oppressive, countries?

Women faced a few conditions on their newfound freedom: a man had to drive them to polling booths; they had to venture outside their homes with hair and bodies cloaked head-to-toe “Islamically” in yards of fabric; they could only run for office if they weren’t blacklisted, for example, for the alleged “crime” of demanding equal rights, like driving a car; women running for office couldn’t directly talk with men as they campaigned—a state-sanctioned system of inequality.

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