Play Nice First transgender player in the AFLW

[The Gong]

Yes that is pretty much it.

Chromosomes innit? No one transitions from male to female or vice versa. There's a little thing called scientific reality.

we should be nice to those people but let's not pretend with the pretenders.

The reason why no "transitioned" people play footy is that there are no transitioned people.

I might get banned for talking sense but there we are.

...and the thread just jumped the shark.

 

[gaelictiogar]

If thats the case we may as well scrap separate divisions for men and women all together. They exist for a reason.

Of course you are right.

Its just like age being all in the mind.....yes tell that a 12 year old playing senior footy or a 55 year old turning out for under 18s.

Paralympics? No need for that either since we are all just "differently abled".

Those who want to virtue signal till doomsday on issues on the creation of new sexual minorities have every right to their hobby horse but let's try to keep it a bit real.

 

[ydraw]

This debate has been going on in sport for a long time and it's a tricky one

It's not really that tricky at all.

If you went through puberty as a male then you have an unfair advantage over others that didn't, and you always will.

It's the equivalent of spending years on HGH versus someone who didn't.

 

[gaelictiogar]

...and the thread just jumped the shark.

and you disagree with what part of the post?

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Yes, Karsten Braasch. I am more than familiar with this.

But one of them won a grand slam whilst pregnant and the other is still making finals 21 seasons after she made the 1997 US Open final.

They are obviously physically (and skilfully mind you) superior to many of their opponents.

If a trans athlete has little residual advantage beyond their natural size then I can see a case for being included.

So now do we pick and choose which transmen are allowed to compete vs women? Defeats the whole purpose really, if any are allowed to compete then they should all be allowed to compete.

What about combat sports, should we allow that?

 

[Quinz]

Can I play in the AFLW as I identify as a female currently*.

If not I call discrimination.

*Subject to change as I feel like it.

Has it been a year since your transition?

 

[BTs Nana]

I would say, at the very least this may mean that supergoals might actually happen in AFLW so there is that.

 

[Off The Couch]

Don't have a problem with it - we are either moving forward and embracing and accepting that people are different or we aren't

Those saying it's not fair because of the strength, would you be having the same discussion if the change was heading towards the afl

 

[The Gong]

It's not really that tricky at all.

If you went through puberty as a male then you have an unfair advantage over others that didn't, and you always will.

It's the equivalent of spending years on HGH versus someone who didn't.

So what then? If you've transitioned from male to female, if you want to play sport, then you should play in a male league although your body has changed through hormone treatments and you would be at an disadvantage? Have a read of what Kristi said about body changes she went through. Or do you just not get to play sport at all? In my opinion it is a long way from a simple argument.

 

[Quinz]

It's the equivalent of spending years on HGH versus someone who didn't.

We do let convicted dopers come back after their penalties though, despite the irreversible advantage they may have gained.

Why it's not a permanent ban first up I really can't understand.

 

[Bostonian]

Those saying it's not fair because of the strength, would you be having the same discussion if the change was heading towards the afl

False equivalence. That would never ever happen.

 

[Noobz0r]

**** up dickhead, am I not allowed to have my own opinion on the topic?

The word disgusting is a bit hysteric I think.

 

[The Gong]

and you disagree with what part of the post?

All of it.

 

[ydraw]

Those saying it's not fair because of the strength, would you be having the same discussion if the change was heading towards the afl

Not sure if serious.

Trans people (and women) should be free to play in the men's AFL if they want, it's the pinnacle of the sport.

The AFLW is a league specifically for people who can't physically compete against men. Allowing men to compete in it defeats the purpose of its existence. Just as allowing men to compete in the women's tennis or golf tours would be.

Men are better at sports than women. Women who used to be men are too. That's why there are separate women's leagues, to ensure there is a fairer competition.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Don't have a problem with it - we are either moving forward and embracing and accepting that people are different or we aren't

Those saying it's not fair because of the strength, would you be having the same discussion if the change was heading towards the afl

Very stupid comment if I'm honest, of course we wouldn't be having the same discussion because no female would make it in the mens competition.

 

[ydraw]

So what then? If you've transitioned from male to female, if you want to play sport, then you should play in a male league although your body has changed through hormone treatments and you would be at an disadvantage?

In a word, yes.

 

[kirsti]

Can you explain to me how lets say a 30 year old man (pre transition) thats 2 years post transition is any different to a normal man? wouldn't their bone structure still be the

Did you see my pre and post transition pictures.

Two years of hormone treatment for a male to female person is two stage.

Firstly an ant androgen is administered to chemically castrate and stop testosterone production. Life without testosterone production has massive effects on both strength and stamina. We have all witnessed the advantage gained by taking testosterone enhancing drugs Ben Johnsons improvement was a clear example of how increased testosterone improves performance. Testosterone is widely known as the most powerful and greatest performance enhancing drug known to man kind.

A male to female trans person that undergoes HRT is a polar opposite to an athlete taking performance enhancing drugs. As can be seen in my pictures massive muscle loss occurs with HRT. Muscles not bones power the body.

In addition to having testosterone levels drastically reduced a trans woman is also administered massive amounts eastrogen wich alters a trans person body by redistributing body fat, grows breasts, softens skin, changes body odour as well as many psychological changes.

 

[Quinz]

It's not even the strength difference. Higher levels of testosterone during development (including pre-natal through to puberty) is associated with better visual-spatial awareness, and this wiring in the brain lasts for life.

What sort of overlap is there in the bell curves I wonder?

 

[hoianbulldog]

Obviously nothing is cut and dried in this area.

Discussing a pre op transgender athlete and you drop this nugget.

Gold Jerry.

 

[The Gong]

Not sure if serious.

Trans people (and women) should be free to play in the men's AFL if they want, it's the pinnacle of the sport.

The AFLW is a league specifically for people who can't physically compete against men. Allowing men to compete in it defeats the purpose of its existence. Just as allowing men to compete in the women's tennis or golf tours would be.

Men are better at sports than women. Women who used to be men are too. That's why there are separate women's leagues, to ensure there is a fairer competition.

You are making a judgement there that transgender (male to female) people are not really women. If they have changed sex and gone through the appropriate period of hormone treatment and are personally and legally identified as women then they are women.

 

[ashep]

Yeah I'd expect a sign to the back of the head saying something like that in public these days, scary times.

Good thing you wouldn't have the guts to say it publicly then isn't it?

 

[gaelictiogar]

You are making a judgement there that transgender (male to female) people are not really women. If they have changed sex and gone through the appropriate period of hormone treatment and are personally and legally identified as women then they are women.

No they are not.

Science I'm afraid.

 

[clogwearer]

**** up dickhead, am I not allowed to have my own opinion on the topic?

In 2017 if you don't share the right opinion you're shunned and called names, standard tactics of the left. They can't even have a rational discussion.

Bolded for hypocrisy.

You are allowed to have your own opinion. However, when you express that opinion, others are allowed to comment on it, even if their commentary is not complimentary.

I hear a lot about the "bullying tactics of the left". In some cases, it is perhaps warranted, but in many cases, many cases (Thanks Don) it's simply the whining of someone who is upset that they can't just say whatever they want without criticism.

In my opinion, Yippy Yi Yeo, your opinion is ill-informed, narrow minded, and mean-spirited. I don't necessarily agree that "**** off with this shit" is the approach most likely to change your opinion, but I'm happy to endorse the view that you ought to rethink your stance on this issue. And while I'm at it, let's look at your hypocrisy. You don't have room in your world view for anything that doesn't agree with your position, and when your opinion is called for what it is, you revert to name-calling, all the while crying that "they can't even have a rational discussion".

kirsti has offered to share her experiences. Perhaps the beginning of rational discussion would be for you to take her up on that offer, and keep an open mind about the potential for learning.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2...tes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery

So test levels have to be below a certain level at least 12 months, but is there constant check ups to make sure it's being done legitimately, consistently and levels aren't being manipulated?

Is testosterone therapy allowed to maintain similar levels to that of average female levels?

Also, have you heard of Fallon Fox? She was an MMA fighter and there was alot of controversy around her not disclosing her transition to opponents, her muscle mass and there seemed to be a distinct strength advantage she held over opponents (what her opponents claimed). Because she fought in low level promotions, ped testing was fairly minimal.

my main concern is if there is an ability to manipulate hormone levels to gain an advantage outside of the guidelines, especially in a contact sport.

 

[KermitJagger]

This shouldn't be allowed, simple as that. Particularly in this case as you have a world class athlete who has performed as a male until completely fully developed. Low testosterone doesn't take away bone and muscle density, or the natural strength advantage that a male would have.

It might be able to let slide if there was a male to female transgender who started hormone treatment before puberty, but in this case there's no way this should be allowed.