Fisher and Jacobs

[Blue and Silver]

The only true potential midfielders I can see amongst our current batch of kids are those already there (Murphy, Gibbs) those that are there occasionally (Grigg, Robinson) and Yarran. Lucas should take up the opposing wing to Simpson eventually and be a great line-breaker, something which Walker keeps promising but failing to do because of injury.

Talls aren't actually a huge issue for Carlton.

Mark Austin (193)
Paul Bower (192)
Brad Fisher (192)
Shaun Hampson (201)
Lachlan Henderson (196)
Sam Jacobs (200)
Micheal Jamison (193)
Matthew Kreuzer (200)
Setanta O'Halpin (199)
Bret Thornton (192)
Jarrad Waite (194)
Robert Warnock (206)

thats 12, more than we will play in a week. Also add to that rookies

Levi Casboult (198)
Joshua Donaldson (193)
Simon White (190) plays KPB

and tall mids who can play on flanks and as third talls.

Shaun Grigg (190)
Richard Hadley (190)
Andrew Walker (190)

We are fine for KPP just need to solidify which will play forward.

 

[BlueTongue]

I think it was for more than a difference of opinion.

Only the near sighted Carlton fans and flogs think that selecting a tall is better than drafting the pure talent you rate.

^ This is my point. While I don't think reaching for a tall rated as a 3rd round pick and elevating him to pick 12 is better than drafting talent, I do think that someone who is genuinely rated as a first round pick, around the pick 10-13 mark, is worth taking a punt on.

Now I don't see myself as 'Near Sighted' so by his logic that makes me a 'flog' (and he did use "flogs" plural, so he was taking aim at more than just Lawnchair) and I take offence at that.

But I'll shutup now and let the thread get back on track now I've had my rant.

 

[Sin City]

Top post Blue and Silver

 

[Blue and Silver]

Also I fear Jacobs will be trade bait at the end of the season. Three competent ruckmen already ahead of him and teams like Geelong and Hawthorn will be looking for a good centre-bounce ruckmen, unless Warnock gets permenantly injured or something similiar rules out another ruckmen.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Top post Blue and Silver

Cheers

 

[Kramer1]

The only true potential midfielders I can see amongst our current batch of kids are those already there (Murphy, Gibbs) those that are there occasionally (Grigg, Robinson) and Yarran. Lucas should take up the opposing wing to Simpson eventually and be a great line-breaker, something which Walker keeps promising but failing to do because of injury.

Talls aren't actually a huge issue for Carlton.

Mark Austin (193)
Paul Bower (192)
Brad Fisher (192)
Shaun Hampson (201)
Lachlan Henderson (196)
Sam Jacobs (200)
Micheal Jamison (193)
Matthew Kreuzer (200)
Setanta O'Halpin (199)
Bret Thornton (192)
Jarrad Waite (194)

thats 11, more than we will play in a week. Also add to that rookies

Levi Casboult (198)
Joshua Donaldson (193)
Simon White (190) plays KPB

and tall mids who can play on flanks and as third talls.

Shaun Grigg (190)
Richard Hadley (190)
Andrew Walker (190)

We are fine for KPP just need to solidify which will play forward.

That Warnock bloke has got a bit of height about him too...

 

[Blue and Silver]

Yeah I fixed the Warnock thing

 

[BlueTongue]

The only true potential midfielders I can see amongst our current batch of kids are those already there (Murphy, Gibbs) those that are there occasionally (Grigg, Robinson) and Yarran. Lucas should take up the opposing wing to Simpson eventually and be a great line-breaker, something which Walker keeps promising but failing to do because of injury.

Talls aren't actually a huge issue for Carlton.

Mark Austin (193) FWD/DEF
Paul Bower (192) DEF
Brad Fisher (192) FWD
Shaun Hampson (201) RUCK/FWD
Lachlan Henderson (196) FWD/DEF
Sam Jacobs (200) RUCK
Micheal Jamison (193) DEF
Matthew Kreuzer (200) RUCK/FWD
Setanta O'Halpin (199) FWD
Bret Thornton (192) DEF
Jarrad Waite (194) FWD/DEF
Robert Warnock (206) RUCK

thats 12, more than we will play in a week. Also add to that rookies

Levi Casboult (198) FWD
Joshua Donaldson (193) FWD/DEF
Simon White (190) plays DEF

and tall mids who can play on flanks and as third talls.

Shaun Grigg (190) MID/DEF
Richard Hadley (190) MID
Andrew Walker (190) MID/DEF

We are fine for KPP just need to solidify which will play forward.

Talls persé isn't really an issue, it's the lack of experience/depth in defence in my book.

When you remove those who won't play there the list is;

Mark Austin (193) FWD/DEF
Paul Bower (192) DEF
Micheal Jamison (193) DEF
Bret Thornton (192) DEF
Jarrad Waite (194) FWD/DEF

Rookies

Joshua Donaldson (193) FWD/DEF
Simon White (190) plays DEF

and tall mids who can play on flanks and as third talls.

Shaun Grigg (190) MID/DEF
Andrew Walker (190) MID/DEF

Assuming Waite plays forward & excluding Bower, Jamison & Thornton, there isn't much depth there in terms of experienced defenders. I suppose Davies will grow another cm or 2 but he's never gonna be => 192cm.

Here's hoping Austin really comes along this year.

 

[Sin City]

Here's hoping Austin really comes along this year.

Austin is one of the most important players at the club this year. We saw how skillful and courageous he can be at times last season, now he needs to do it consistently.

If he can make CHB his own it'll free Waite up to become a full time forward and with Jamo at FB it'll free Thornton and Bower up to play more attacking roles

 

[BlueTongue]

Austin is one of the most important players at the club this year. We saw how skillful and courageous he can be at times last season, now he needs to do it consistently.

If he can make CHB his own it'll free Waite up to become a full time forward and with Jamo at FB it'll free Thornton and Bower up to play more attacking roles

That would be cool. In terms of FWD/DEF don't really care who plays where, just as long as we have players settling into a particular role. 1 swingman (Waite) is enough IMHO. I mean how many of Geelong or St.Kilda's defenders do you see getting shuffled around?

These days I think having a well established & tight defense is the key to any flag.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Talls persé isn't really an issue, it's the lack of experience/depth in defence in my book.

In defence? I beg to differ...

We have a proven young defence; Jamison, Bower, Austin
As well as proven mature defenders; Waite and Thornton (Setanta has done some superb jobs too)
That is five talls who are would make a solid defence in anyones language.

Five talls when you need only two or three. Unfortunately for the best part of the last two year we have suffered injuries to two or more of these players for a period greater than half the season. Bower in 2008 missed plenty of games, Jamison missed about 11 this year, Waite missed most with his knee, and Setanta has been plagued by blood clots in his calves.

If we had the luxury of not having to chop and change to suit our forward line (which is the real issue here) we would be on our way.

Similarly, if we that had amount of proven goal kickers, or that amount of talent in the tall forward roles, we would be on our way.

Waite is probably the most credentialed of any of our forwards that are left. Fisher a close second, but only due to goal tallies and not percieved ability or potential.

 

[BlueTongue]

In defence? I beg to differ...

We have a proven young defence; Jamison, Bower, Austin
As well as proven mature defenders; Waite and Thornton (Setanta has done some superb jobs too)
That is five talls who are would make a solid defence in anyones language.

Five talls when you need only two or three. Unfortunately for the best part of the last two year we have suffered injuries to two or more of these players for a period greater than half the season. Bower in 2008 missed plenty of games, Jamison missed about 11 this year, Waite missed most with his knee, and Setanta has been plagued by blood clots in his calves.

If we had the luxury of not having to chop and change to suit our forward line (which is the real issue here) we would be on our way.

Similarly, if we that had amount of proven goal kickers, or that amount of talent in the tall forward roles, we would be on our way.

Waite is probably the most credentialed of any of our forwards that are left. Fisher a close second, but only due to goal tallies and not percieved ability or potential.

IMHO Austin isn't 'Proven' yet and Waite will more than likely go forward. Agree on Carlos' performances but I dare say he'll also be needed forward.

Anyway, back on topic, can you really see Fisher playing a role up forward this year? 2008/2009 he struggled through injury and by the reports here of his performance in the Bullants, he just doesn't want to take up the challenge of breaking back into the side.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

With Jamo at FB it'll free Thornton and Bower up to play more attacking roles

I'm not sure how 'more attacking' you mean. This was trailed in the NAB cup 2 years ago and was a limited success. If you mean to play off of the flanks, then I certainly agree that this is where Thornton does his best work.

Bower, however, I see becoming a decent CHB option, in the Harry Taylor mould (should he be able to bulk up a bit). Gangly arms and a decent spring should help hold many an opposition forward.

 

[krayfesh]

It's tougher to break into the forward line then we think. The small forwards are taken and the KPF are taken.

Fisher can really only get in as a third tall and we have Wiggins who was better performed in '09 then Fish and Tiller, who might actually get a few games in a pocket.

So, I guess with injury we could make room for him, but he's third on my list.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

He just doesn't want to take up the challenge of breaking back into the side.

I think he's simply incapable. His kicking style is flawed, and his body is simply not agile or honed enough to be able to compete in 'today's' AFL

He might not have stood out 4 or so years ago, but now he stands out like a sore thumb. Where our club has improved out of sight in terms of ball skills and talent, some players have come along for the ride (Carrazzo's disposal has improved ten-fold, and Russell has really kicked it up a notch) - Some players have stagnated, Fisher, and some of the more recent delistees are prime examples (Bentick, Bannister)

With all due respect to him, - footskills are paramount, and if footskills aren't paramount (Travis Cloke won a best and fairest), you can get away with being pacey and athletic in this age of defensive pressure in the F50.

Fisher really doesn't provide anything other than a one-grab mark.

In fairness to the bloke, I think he could easily manage 40 goals a season, and he has proven how deadly he can be, even recently. (Kicked 3 in 2 minutes versus the Swans, to put us infront by a point, and they barely scored from that point)

Edit : Oh and all that said - I think he is a pretty much definate starter Round One!

 

[BlueTongue]

I think he's simply incapable. His kicking style is flawed, and his body is simply not agile or honed enough to be able to compete in 'today's' AFL

He might not have stood out 4 or so years ago, but now he stands out like a sore thumb. Where our club has improved out of sight in terms of ball skills and talent, some players have come along for the ride (Carrazzo's disposal has improved ten-fold, and Russell has really kicked it up a notch) - Some players have stagnated, Fisher, and some of the more recent delistees are prime examples (Bentick, Bannister)

With all due respect to him, - footskills are paramount, and if footskills aren't paramount (Travis Cloke won a best and fairest), you can get away with being pacey and athletic in this age of defensive pressure in the F50.

Fisher really doesn't provide anything other than a one-grab mark.

In fairness to the bloke, I think he could easily manage 40 goals a season, and he has proven how deadly he can be, even recently. (Kicked 3 in 2 minutes versus the Swans, to put us infront by a point, and they barely scored from that point)

Edit : Oh and all that said - I think he is a pretty much definate starter Round One!

Couldn't agree more on the footskills and Carrazzo has become one of our more reliable options in front of goals in recent times.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Couldn't agree more on the footskills and Carrazzo has become one of our more reliable options in front of goals in recent times.

Yeah, crazy eh?

Not to mention Carrots has kicked some absolute pearlers, can picture him deep in the right pocket, just not sure when, and crucial set shots from outside 50 (i.e. against the Cats)

 

[Lawnchair]

I think it was for more than a difference of opinion.

I'm fairly certain I've made more derogatory comments about Yarran than that. That's because I believe he will be a shit player and I whole-heartedly believe he is a terrible person.

I recalled him being a pretty ordinary poster, but didn't realise just how ordinary...fair play TG...clearly going the ball and just collected a little of the man on the way through.

Good analogy. If he wants to talk football while taking jabs like that, of course I'll cop it on the chin, it's a part of footy. If he wants to make personal attacks irrelevant to football without knowing a thing about me, then I'll ignore him.

 

[Sin City]

I'm fairly certain I've made more derogatory comments about Yarran than that. That's because I believe he will be a shit player and I whole-heartedly believe he is a terrible person.

What a piss poor thing to say. Who the hell are you to judge him as a person? What evidence have you got to back that up?

 

[Kramer1]

If he wants to make personal attacks irrelevant to football without knowing a thing about me, then I'll ignore him.

Anyone else chowing down on some delicious ironing right about now...

 

[bluespurs]

Fisher played approximately 10 minutes of decent football in 09' against the Swans the rest of the time he was ordinary to say the least and his effort in the grand final for the Bullants was diabolical. Interestingly one Cameron Cloke played quite well in that game and where is he now. If Fish was out of contract he would have been gone Fev or no Fev.

 

[Azul]

Three competent ruckmen already ahead of him

Who? I count 2, Kreuzer and Hampson. Setanta isn't a ruckman, Casboult hasn't played a game and is more of a KPP.

unless Warnock gets permenantly injured

Oh, you mean Robbie W, who is permanently injured. Sorry I don't agree that just because we 'wasted' pick 24 (sorry, Splendini!) on Warnock that he will automatically get preferential treatment over Jacobs. Especially given he's barely played a game in 2 years. In any case, 4 ruckmen is nowhere near too many to carry in a list of 38 these days. Especially since we're considering developing Kreuzer and Hampson as key position players and may have a minimum of 3 playing seniors each week.

Given injuries, Sam could play 10 games or so next season. If he's any good, he stays. In any case, we'd have to rookie another 18 year old ruckman and we'd be back to square one.

 

[Dramoth]

In defence? I beg to differ...

We have a proven young defence; Jamison, Bower, Austin
As well as proven mature defenders; Waite and Thornton (Setanta has done some superb jobs too)
That is five talls who are would make a solid defence in anyones language.

Five talls when you need only two or three. Unfortunately for the best part of the last two year we have suffered injuries to two or more of these players for a period greater than half the season. Bower in 2008 missed plenty of games, Jamison missed about 11 this year, Waite missed most with his knee, and Setanta has been plagued by blood clots in his calves.

If we had the luxury of not having to chop and change to suit our forward line (which is the real issue here) we would be on our way.

Similarly, if we that had amount of proven goal kickers, or that amount of talent in the tall forward roles, we would be on our way.

Waite is probably the most credentialed of any of our forwards that are left. Fisher a close second, but only due to goal tallies and not percieved ability or potential.

we have 4 definite defenders and 2 FWD/DEF swingmen in Waite and Setanta which gives us a lot of depth in defence. We also have some good mid sized defenders to work with the talls there.

The only area we really need to settle down now is the forwards.

 

[BlueYoss]

Yeah, crazy eh?

Not to mention Carrots has kicked some absolute pearlers, can picture him deep in the right pocket, just not sure when, and crucial set shots from outside 50 (i.e. against the Cats)

Round 6 v Hawthorn?

 

[thylacine60]

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