Fisher & Thornton - THE AGE

[Bennycoff]

Ok, seriously now, what would Carlton want for Thornton?

He is a very good defender and has improved over the years and would be a massive loss for Carlton.

What would Hawthorn need to trade to get him?

I doubt you would want Everitt?

 

[bibi01]

Don't get me wrong, the performance of the board has not been good in recent times. It just seems now that any time we have a minor incident, that the entire club is in a shambles. I just think we need some perspective when looking at the events.

It will be an interesting AGM.

understand what you are saying and in normal circumstances would agree

as an isolated incident it really isn't a big deal

but ATM we have so many isolated of these isolated incidents.

just as a side point we still have to follwing players out of contract:

russell
simpson
blackwell
betts
hartlett
houlihan
wiggins
raso

livingston
davies
longmuir
chambers
bryan
prendergast
bannister

bentick
mcgrath

 

[bibi01]

Ok, seriously now, what would Carlton want for Thornton?

He is a very good defender and has improved over the years and would be a massive loss for Carlton.

What would Hawthorn need to trade to get him?

I doubt you would want Everitt?

i would like jordan lewis

now what i want and what i would get are 2 different stories

to an extent carlton have the upper hand as he is still a carlton player and our picks are before hawthorns, so hawthorn may have to give up more than they would ideally like.

 

[Bennycoff]

We won't give up more than what we have to, the current Hawthorn recruiting team has done a sensational job and won't give the world to get Thornton.

Lewis is not going anywhere, he is a 10+ yr player and when he improves his fitness and loses some weight will be a superstar.

Lewis > Thornton.

 

[blues4flag]

I agree, but at what price.

You're agreeing with yourself

 

[Bluebear]

Thornton and Fisher will re-sign. Currently its first offer - always refused by the manager, so never at market value. It will be increased and T-bird should sign.

If he doesn't he can P$ss off. We don't need mercenaries holding the club to ransom. yes it will hurt to lose him but it will send a message to the rest of the group.

Secondly, players need to understand (Fev - are you listening?), that demanding rock star salaries hurts any chance you've got of winning a flag. To put together a quality list and keep it together some players must accept below market wages - its that simple. If you over pay all your stars then you can only afford hacks to support them (remember Sammy? - we couldn't afford to keep him because we already had overpaid too many others).

Lappin may look at the current situation and cry, but most would look at his form this year and say we did the right thing, especially not giving him 3 years.

Fisher hasn't done anything. He is promising a lot, but has not delivered. Should be thankful for 250K, which he'll get.
T-Bird will get 275K - 300 and will be happy.

Managers are a cancer on the clubs and have no interest in getting the player a premiership - just more money.

Pay cuts = better overall list = premiership

Overpaid few = crap 2nd half of list = Richmond (perenial 8-10th)

 

[blues4flag]

It's still too early to be worried IMO. Same thing happened with Kouta, he resigned not long after. Player managers go to the media to get the price higher, but I reckon we will atleast keep Thornton. A 250,000, 3 year deal seems fair, or possibly 200,000 with incentives for playing well. Fisher, although I'd hate to lose him, might be a bit harder. He has talent but is always injured so hasn't been able to do much - however maybe 175-200k for 2 years seems fair, again with incentives for performance (eg. if he's playing forward, extra 30,000 for kicking 30 goals or something along those lines).

 

[Funkalicous]

Lewis > Thornton.

My God, some Hawk supporters overate their players.

T-Bird I felt finished the year as our fourth best player (behind Fev, Scotland, and Simmo). Seriously, his form in the 2nd half of the year was as good if not better than Glass, Scarlett or Rutten. Obviously he won't be receiving his due accolades until we improve, but comparing him to other key backmen, he is one of the most dynamic rebounders going around. We're not just fools if we don't re-sign him, we're also finished.

Is he worth $300,000 a year. - YES!
We threw this kid in the deep end as soon as he came to this club, and to my amazement he swam. Since then he has taken the tough jobs week in - week out, never getting a rest, and still developing himself as an attacking player. If anything, we owe him that money for preventing numerous blow-outs when we deserved them.

I don't see what leg we have to stand on, so just pay him.

 

[bibi01]

We won't give up more than what we have to, the current Hawthorn recruiting team has done a sensational job and won't give the world to get Thornton.

Lewis is not going anywhere, he is a 10+ yr player and when he improves his fitness and loses some weight will be a superstar.

Lewis > Thornton.

its no so much as who is better than who

they are differnt players who play different positions, so a direct comparision is basically useless

its about the current needs of a club

hawks need a KP back and thornton is 1 option available
to get him they need to trade for him
to get something of value you need to give up something of value

it's unlikely hawks will give up lewis but on the same hand it is unlikely that carlton will let thornton leave without at least breaking even in a trade.

if thornton leave carlton it leave a massive hole in our defence
if lewis leaves hawthorn the impact is not as great as he can be covered

that is the reason why carlton would initally go after a player of lewis' calibre.

 

[Bennycoff]

Well we won't be giving up Lewis so you can forget about that.

 

[nocode]

Bluebear im sorry but if you think Brad Fisher is worth $250,000, then Brendon fevola should be on 1.5 million a year.
Brad Fisher has done nothing for the club and never will hes not a match winner guys.
And as for Brett Thornton if hes expecting $275K hes dreaming, I doubt if Ben rutten and Darren Glass are on that much the last 2 all Australian full backs, youve gotta earn it T-bird.
I will finish by saying this, Anthony franchina was on $230K for his last 2 years at the club in my opinion the worst player ever in the history of the Carlton Football club to play 100 senior games.
Lets not give in to average players who demand high salaries or we will go over that salary cap again, rememeber we have to pay big money to Murphy,Walker and gibbs in the next few years.

Case closed

 

[blueheart]

Well we won't be giving up Lewis so you can forget about that.

We won't be giving up Thornton so end of argument

 

[bibi01]

Well we won't be giving up Lewis so you can forget about that.

i'd much rather keep pursing it

i think here on bigfooty we can get the deal over the line

if speak to my people and you speak to your people i am sure we can get the deal done

 

[dirk pitt]

We won't give up more than what we have to, the current Hawthorn recruiting team has done a sensational job and won't give the world to get Thornton.

Unfortuantely for you, the Hawthorn recruiting team has set the market. If a washed up hack like Hay is worth pick 18, then a guy like Thornton who is 5+ years younger and playing much better footy is worth more (even allowing for the strength of the draft which is mostly in the first 8 picks or so). So the starting price is a late first rounder. But given we still need Thornton, and can afford to meet his price, and you'll have competition from Richmond, and the Pies, the Dons and well half the comp really, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

I'd accept a pick in the 12-16 range + a 2nd rounder lower than 30 for Thornton. Otherwise you can spend the next 3 years trying to turn Dawson into a FB until we overtake you.

 

[deluxeman]

The good news is that hopefully is means that Simpson has either agreed to terms or signed a new contract.

Onto Thornton, we must do everything in our power to keep him. He is still young and I wouldn't be angry if we gave him a 3yr deal as realistically hes going to be our best defender for the next 1-2 years anyway. If Kouta gets 300k then Thornton should get the same as far as I'm concerned.

As for Fisher, he deserves a two year deal at around 200-220k. He is injury prone but we are in no position to lose talent when we have so little.

 

[Bennycoff]

Unfortuantely for you, the Hawthorn recruiting team has set the market. If a washed up hack like Hay is worth pick 18, then a guy like Thornton who is 5+ years younger and playing much better footy is worth more (even allowing for the strength of the draft which is mostly in the first 8 picks or so). So the starting price is a late first rounder. But given we still need Thornton, and can afford to meet his price, and you'll have competition from Richmond, and the Pies, the Dons and well half the comp really, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

I'd accept a pick in the 12-16 range + a 2nd rounder lower than 30 for Thornton. Otherwise you can spend the next 3 years trying to turn Dawson into a FB until we overtake you.

You are dreaming. You'd be stoked to get a first rounder but nothing more. I'd prefer to use our first rounder on a kid with far more potential then Thornton then

We won't be trading our first rounder.

 

[Bluebear]

Bluebear im sorry but if you think Brad Fisher is worth $250,000, then Brendon fevola should be on 1.5 million a year.
Brad Fisher has done nothing for the club and never will hes not a match winner guys.
And as for Brett Thornton if hes expecting $275K hes dreaming, I doubt if Ben rutten and Darren Glass are on that much the last 2 all Australian full backs, youve gotta earn it T-bird.
I will finish by saying this, Anthony franchina was on $230K for his last 2 years at the club in my opinion the worst player ever in the history of the Carlton Football club to play 100 senior games.
Lets not give in to average players who demand high salaries or we will go over that salary cap again, rememeber we have to pay big money to Murphy,Walker and gibbs in the next few years.

Case closed

Direct comparisons are sadly useless, as we are required to pay out 92.5% of the salary cap each year.
This leaves you in one of two situations if you have a crap list:
a) The really good players get a bigger slice of the pie, and the others get what they are worth
b) The really good players get what they are worth and the duds get overpaid.

Situation a) leaves you stuffed when the list improves as the overpaid stars leave no room for movement inthe cap and their managers have a tantrum if you offer them a cut for continuing to play well.
Situation b) is ideal in the long term, but means guys (like Fisher) will get above market value. They either live up to the pay or they leave.
Situation b) seems bad at the time because people like yourself complain that player x is overpaid.....which he is, but what it stops is the real long termers being overpaid, which can cause huge headaches.
Clearly you have an axe to grind with Fisher, and far enough, he has done bery little, but give him two years on a good deal and let him perform. If he doesn't he will be traded (maybe after 1 year) or delisted after 2 when the list has improved, either way freeing up money.

 

[dirk pitt]

You are dreaming. You'd be stoked to get a first rounder but nothing more. I'd prefer to use our first rounder on a kid with far more potential then Thornton then

We won't be trading our first rounder.

That's the trouble with Hawks fans, they value potential more highly than reality. That's why your club will end up going nowhere when some of the guys whose names you real off as if they're already brownlow medallists (even though they haven't even played a senior game yet) end up being duds.

I didn't ask for pick 6, I asked for pick 12-16 plus a late second rounder. Trade Spider to Sydney for their first rounder, and Osborne or someone of his ilk to whoever for pick 30, and on-trade those picks to us. You still get picks 6 and 24, and you get a fullback with 100 games experience and 10 years left in him. It's not rocket science.

 

[blues4flag]

Well we won't be giving up Lewis so you can forget about that.

That's nice to hear. Lewis better than Thorton? What a joke.

 

[[ToTTi]]

Am really shocked at this news. Hopefully its just a media beat-up and they both stay. Can't fathom how people could want to trade either of these blokes!

Fisher has had his fair share of injuries, some unlucky (fev falling on him), and obviously needs to improve his kicking. But, i'd say he's probably got the best pair of hands at the club, he marks everything. He's also a good size, and has a fair motor on him. He's 22? Why the fudge would you trade him for an unknown! we wouldn't get anywhere near what he could be worth for us in terms of draft picks.

Thornton will be a very good defender for us. Already is actually...is getting better and better. All the persistance with him n the club is yet to re-sign, how ridiculouos.

 

[blues4flag]

An article on afl.com.au about Thornton and Fisher. Contracts are still in negoiation and both players required next year, however after closing the site I can't find the article anymore.

 

[trueblue_91]

That's nice to hear. Lewis better than Thorton? What a joke.

I would love that trade. I think Jordan Lewis will become a very good player.
I would like to keep thornton though.

 

[Bluebear]

Here's the latest.
http://www.sportal.com.au/football.asp?i=news&id=88580

Bloody managers.

 

[sticks74]

I would love that trade. I think Jordan Lewis will become a very good player.
I would like to keep thornton though.

So what is it Trueblue...Deal or no deal??? Sort of contradicting yourself

 

[mushda]

Thornton must stay! We just can't afford to lose him. I wouldn't go 3 years at first but if it comes down to it I'd do what it takes to keep him at the club.

Fisher is still probably worth re-signing but if we end up trading him I wouldn't worry so much.