Fitness Vs Skill Levels

[blynd_freddie]

Must say I think Voss might be establishing one of the fittest squads in the comp. The following is a bit of a dogs dinner of thoughts that some may wish discuss over the remainder of the weekend.

IIRC there was some discussion last year of ‘the hardest preseason ever’ with opinions suggesting this may have assisted with our ability to over run teams in the later part of games. Even to a casual observer, albeit with limited sampling, it seems a similar pattern is already evident in 2010.

With all due respect and not wanting to be seen as stirring the pot in the Ripper household is there a standard error of the mean that suggests that our possible higher level of fitness is a major element in our ability to overrun a higher skill based opposition a greater, at this stage of our development, benefit than attempting to maximise our skill level over the preseason?

It is a known fact that fatigue lowers skill levels, check any documentation on productivity, OH&S, road trauma etc.

At the beginning of 2009 Voss had been indicating he had a 2-3 year plan, I have interpreted this to be;

• In 2009, to halt a pattern of end of season fadeouts. Hence win more than we lose in the last half dozen games of the year and partake in the finals.
• In 2010, utilise recruited mature age experience – to instantaneously increase the base skill level of the squad, theoretically an attempt to be competitive with the top four teams being cats, dogs, saints, pies.
• In 2011, to be a top four team with realistic aspirations of Grand Final participation.

AFL, the game has evolved considerably in the 40 odd years I’ve followed it… to make it more relevant to those younger than myself, it was less than a decade ago that the third quarter was referred to as ‘the premiership quarter’, I’m suggesting this may now be outdated.

To glace into a borrowed Orb… the answer to the debating of pure footballers verses athletes is still clouded but I can see interchange plays with extended benches and higher rotation numbers becoming similar to basketball or dare I say American Gridiron where clusters of not so much offensive/defensive players are alternated during periods of the game but groups of five or six ‘purely’ footballers or hybrid athletes depending on specific set play roles

 

[Chezzalenko Reborn]

Good post BF!

Without trying to sound too much like a Captain Obvious noob boob, our level of fitness is freaky. More to the point, how we ran out last night after being pushed by West Coast not even a week ago is unbelievable.

Passing TBD on the way out last night, both of us wanted to know what the hell Vossy said to the boys at 3/4 time. I think a third aspect that should be measured with Fitness and Skill is motivation/psychology. Coming from last years games after so many fade outs in 2008/2007, is we always show more resolve to fight to the end of the game.

Perhaps another part of Vossy's Plan - Strongest squad Mentally?

 

[chopperduck]

That is actually a pretty good point, especially consider as RoaringUniLions said, we weren't good at all in 07-08 with running games out as well as finishing our season well. 09 looked more of the same, but we were able to lift in the last quarter many times to take games, as well as actually finish the season out strongly as well.

We aren't a big running side, but its a different kind of fitness that we have got. Our players dont run all day, or start out running their opponents in the 4th quarters, its the contested stuff that we start winning. The hard ball and clearances, and this is a completely different fitness compared to running fitness, and this is why we are getting over teams late in games. We are able to win more of the contested and hard balls and eventually get over them, instead of just getting more miles out of the legs.

I think the way we play also has something to do with it. We are a team that likes to move the ball quickly, but we do it by foot, not by hand so we aren't running as much as other fleet footed teams. Same with our defense, we play a very loose zone, and we dont really start restricting ball movement until it gets near the HF line. Several times i see players ignore opposition players making a lead into space and getting and uncontested mark 70-80 meters from goal on a wing, instead letting them have it and dropping back. We back our defenders to stop any marks inside 50 then we try move the ball quickly through kicks on the rebound. This i think is also less taxing on the body then the way some other teams are playing, focusing on getting running players to run up and down the field to flood back, similar to the Hawks.

With many teams going for running power, we seem to be focusing more on body power, and i think espeically late in games, its coming up trumps for us. When players are tired, but might still be able to run, they dont have the same stamina to win the hard ball like our boys do, and i think this is something Voss has wanted from our group, more early 2000 footy instead of 2008 footy. As also pointed out, skill levels drop with fatigue, so teams like the dogs that rely on running power and skill levels can drop off late in the game, especially if they are challenged in the guts with hard ball gets and clearances.

No doubt our fade outs was something that Voss wanted to fix when he came in, and i think we have done that, we have now turned it into a strength. Also considering how many games we end up playing we a reduced bench and still end up coming over the top of teams makes it even more amazing really.

For the remainder of the game, i think we just need better set ups for our midfield to win more share of the clearances. If there is any truth to our fitness advantage later in the game, we dont need to 'win' the clearances so much as just break even for the rest of the game, and better tactics and set ups in the middle i think we can do this given that we probably now have more support in the middle than in previous years.

 

[Grimreepah]

I think our strong finishes may be partly to do with Voss' gameplan. Whereas Leigh liked to go in with Plan A and adapt from there, Voss seems more inclined to share the workload early and then play his trump cards in the last quarter. This probably makes our fitness look better than what it actually is.

 

[chopperduck]

Power has been key in both games so far i think as well. With him not playing from the center as much, i think he has a bit more left in the tank, so when the game is on the line, he can be moved onto the ball and he is having a great impact.

That is along the tracks with my point with clearances that we dont really need to win them or be on top, if we can get away with playing without some of our big guns in the middle and just kind of break even, it gives us a chance to just blitz in the last quarter as well.

 

[blynd_freddie]

A bit like Paul Roos a couple of years ago where he seemed to get the Swans to play keepings off and get the opposition to run ragged and then during time on of each quarter Sydney would go totally on the offensive trying to score.
Do you think Voss is taking on similar basketball tactics in leaving the majority of the strategies to last term Grim? Interesting if yes.

 

[Jubair]

One thing I do notice is Voss likes to get into the huddle at 3/4 time and address the boys, he doesnt stand out on his own - he becomes one of the players.

I saw that again last night, as Fev put his arm around his shoulders during his address. Its very similar to the way he used to address his troops before games when he was captain.

Mentally, I think it revs up the boys more to see their coach getting into it with them. Voss always had a mental edge over his opponents with what he did on the field and the stuff he said - that influence can also rub off on his players.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Voss certainly is a contrast to Leigh in this respect - It would make me feel more united as group.

 

[Grimreepah]

Do you think Voss is taking on similar basketball tactics in leaving the majority of the strategies to last term Grim? Interesting if yes.

It may well have initially been a plan to share the load and get the non-star midfielders into the game more, but I think it is now part of his strategy. With Black and Power being a bit fresher in the final term they are really able to take the initiative.

Momentum plays a huge part both physically and psychologically and can have a big impact on the game in a short period of time. And the players are now confident that their efforts will be rewarded if they dig in for that last quarter.

The down side of this is that we can look fairly scrappy early in the game. However, it also means that the non-star midfielders are getting more responsibility, so it may also accelerate their development to a degree.

And I think that is the $1,000,000 question. If the non-star midfielders can accelerate their development, then we will be a chance of beating the top teams.

 

[chopperduck]

Definately agree with that grim. I think half of it is to help bring along some of our younger midfielders, the likes of Black and Power need help, so we need to bring these guys up to speed. Power is still very useful either across HB or HF, and keeps some fuel in the tank in the process. Then when the game is needed to be won, like it was in the 4th, we go with the big setup of Black, Power Rich. Im not sure how many times during the first 3 qtrs these 3 lined up in the center square with each other. Perhaps someone with the game might be able to fill us in on that one ? I would have to say that is our #1 center line up with only Brennan missing, but he seems to do well coming in off the HF line, and is also a good target if we get a quick kick.

 

[LionKing]

Great posts everyone.

I know clubs like the pies and I hear the Kangas last weekend rotated their players off the bench something like 120+ times to keep players fresh for the entire game.

Have the Lions increased rotations off the bench this year?

 

[BuntonRules]

Have noticed the last 2 weeks Daniel Rich being HBF for the first 3/4 and then into the middle in the last with the petrol to dominate. Same, same for Luke Power up forward.Is this part of Vossy's plan?

 

[Nuggo]

Just watched the replay. Goose had a pretty solid game. Didn't do too much wrong.

Rich and the clearances is an interesting one. In the first three quarters he was struggling when he was in there. Over running the tap down or just not in position, getting smothered when he got a hold of it. Completely different story in the last. He was finding space and was able to get boot to ball.

I think for Rich it is all part of his development. I have keep remembering this is only his second year. He obviously has the weapons and the smarts to be a really good clearance player.

Brennan was also very good in clearance department in the last quarter.

I think Redden is a player that needs to step up in this area. On a side note he showed that he definitely has a low flat penetrating kick which is encouraging.

Riska seems to thrive more on the defensive side in the clearances rather than clean extraction. Which is ok as it causes turn overs but it is not getting on the front foot.

I think that leaving Black out the centre for the development of others is the way to go. We may suffer short term but it needs to be sorted out by years end. Black actually had a better game than it looked when watching it the first time. Certainly wasn't his best though.

 

[whatboutbob]

Definately agree with that grim. I think half of it is to help bring along some of our younger midfielders, the likes of Black and Power need help, so we need to bring these guys up to speed. Power is still very useful either across HB or HF, and keeps some fuel in the tank in the process. Then when the game is needed to be won, like it was in the 4th, we go with the big setup of Black, Power Rich. Im not sure how many times during the first 3 qtrs these 3 lined up in the center square with each other. Perhaps someone with the game might be able to fill us in on that one ? I would have to say that is our #1 center line up with only Brennan missing, but he seems to do well coming in off the HF line, and is also a good target if we get a quick kick.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at, but would love to have it confirmed by people at the game(s). It really looks like Voss might be trying to fast track development of the kids by having them shoulder more of the burden. Then he throws in the big guns when his hand is forced. I really think he has his eye on September in this regard. Or ir could just be wishful thinking and our clearances just suck...

 

[fryzie]

You guys look freakin awesome. Our mob have in the past been renowned for running over teams in the final quarter and even down to 19 players and the rest of your players suffering from cramp, you still pummeled us in the 4th. Then with less than a week turnaround slapped Carlton around in the last too.

Brown is an absolute machine. The best part for you guys is Clark is not 100% fit, once he gets back up and running your clearances could realistically improve leading to more scoring opportunities. Scary.

 

[karix]

When I watched the Carlton replay Leigh pointed out that Black was sitting in the forward line for much of the first half, in the third we suffered from the match ups getting switched around and having the hole that Adcock left, but then in the 4th it was all sorted and the A team in the ruck had the legs to move the ball like lightning.

If Vossy is giving the younger guys more load to accelerate their skills and it pays off by September I may have to name my next child after him.. yes even if its a girl...

 

[acuguy]

I am also going to have a Captain Obvious moment.

When your team has less kids and more seasoned players obviously fitness levels and body size and strength will generally increase. Apart from Banfield, Redden and Rich we are a pretty mature team now, where as in 2005-2008 we played a lot of kids and we obviously had to.

Skills under fatigue is a great point to make- it is the ability to execute your skills whilst under extreme fatigue that differentiates great players from good players. Browny can consistently execute his kicking effectively under high levels of fatigue where as Riewoldt (who is an excellent player) can struggle at times.

 

[chopperduck]

When I watched the Carlton replay Leigh pointed out that Black was sitting in the forward line for much of the first half, in the third we suffered from the match ups getting switched around and having the hole that Adcock left, but then in the 4th it was all sorted and the A team in the ruck had the legs to move the ball like lightning.

If Vossy is giving the younger guys more load to accelerate their skills and it pays off by September I may have to name my next child after him.. yes even if its a girl...

This was kind of my point in the clearance watch thread. Even though Black did spend a little bit of time in the middle, when he did it wasn't with our other top level mids until the last quarter. Drummond did have to play defense covering for Adcock for the 2nd and 3rd, especially when Patfull was moved off Murphy and he started to run amok. Got everything back into line in the 4th and then chucked our best mids in the center.

We also couldn't settle ourselves in the 3rd quarter and just keep control of the footy. We were busy running around adjusting to the Blues match up changes and when we had ball in hand we were a little flustered and turned it over.

So i think for us with our clearances its coming down to skill, as we are playing a very 2nd rate midfield for the majority of games.