Religion Folau

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Yeah he has alienated a big group of people, not just gay people. If those people are also paying customers of the league that employs him, it's reasonable for it to impact his employment there.

It's almost like actions have real life consequences.

He hasn't alienated me and I tick most of the boxes he mentioned. It's religion, I just think it's stupid.

 

[Sausages]

I'm interested in hearing how his prosecuting team will package their argument over the religious freedom angle. It's going to be fascinating.

At what point does "religious belief" morph into "personal belief" - especially since the former can't be infringed, but the latter certainly can be contractually restricted.

Given that most religious beliefs, especially in the Christian faith, espouse the practitioner to have a "personal relationship" with God/the church.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

It’s almost like you have no idea how free speech works.

My wife is a teacher. If she went on Facebook and wrote “student x is a dickhead” she would get sacked.

Free speech simply means that the government can’t arrest you for an opinion. (Slander, libel, inciting violence and a few other things excepted)

But it doesn’t mean that you can’t get fired, mocked, jeered. And it certainly doesn’t mean your opinion needs to be respected.

Free speech relates to the public sector only. We’re talking private sector. Hell, you can lose your job with the wrong haircut if you’re unlucky enough to have a shit boss.

Nonsense.

There actually is no definition if free speech in this country. Except in relation to political discussion that the high court found was implied in the constitution.

There is precedent but ultimately the administration of law is not for you to define.

Interesting article

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...t/news-story/ee4b1e2caf807e86fd9db89cc77a1326

My tip is watch the ARU stay the hell away from referring to his stance on the gay marriage legislation.

 

[Sausages]

As an aside, it couldn't have come at a worse time for a PM heading into an election - given his church's similarity to Folau's on many theological points

 

[WillieNillie]

Nonsense.

There actually is no definition if free speech in this country. Except in relation to political discussion that the high court found was implied in the constitution.

There is precedent but ultimately the administration of law is not for you to define.

Interesting article

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...t/news-story/ee4b1e2caf807e86fd9db89cc77a1326

My tip is watch the ARU stay the hell away from referring to his stance on the gay marriage legislation.

Their is free speech for certain religions.....

Just not the one Folau is a part of. Unfortunately for him

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Their is free speech for certain religions.....

Just not the one Folau is a part of. Unfortunately for him

Speak.your bigotry to someone who cares.

 

[WillieNillie]

Speak.your bigotry to someone who cares.

Its not bigotry. Im on the other side. They are on the right side of the pillar. Issie deserves the treatment they get, they dont deserve the treatment Issie is gettin is my argument

Everyone has a right to a religious belief. I dont think its something that gets to be picked and chosen when it suits yourself

 

[JackFlash]

The Western world's new favourite past time is being offended, i'm sure people wake up daily looking forward to their next dose of offensiveness. You might call the feeling of being offended a narcissistic injury, and it's as uncontrollable as crying after you've had diarrhea in front of that gorgous bird you knew in high school and just met again on the train last week. Thanks to man's worst invention of the past 50 years "the Internet" we now actively seek out offensiveness. There are decades old movies that are now considered taboo, ( go on and say you love Blazing Saddles to a friend at Uni and see what happens?) or mention an old John Wayne interview from 50 years ago, comedians are copping it from all directions for some joke they told five years ago....it never ends! Perhaps our shock at things we should be laughing at relieves us of worrying about the things that make us genuinely horrified.....like the Sultan of Brunei's new sharia law that calls for those who engage in adultery and gay sex punishable by death from stoning, and allows for the amputation of limbs for theft . The new laws also introduced public flogging as a punishment for abortion, and criminalize exposing Muslim children to the beliefs and practices of other religions. This law ia approved by a man whose family’s opulent life, is financed by Brunei’s immense oil wealth. But where is scarf wearing NZ PM Jacinda Ardern's "real" protest at this? The New Zealand PM and new political hero said the new laws “fly in the face of our opposition to the death penalty and also our principles around inclusion and human rights.”.. Good words. I hope she took off that scarf when she said them.
Despite widespread international condemnation, Brunei’s leader shows no sign of backing down on the new measure. Quite the contrary.
Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah has instead called for even “stronger” Islamic teachings.

All Folau did was provide quotes from the Bible, a book of worship where you find The God of the Old testaement arguably the most unpleasant, unjust, unforgiving control-freak, a God who is a vindictive bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser. A God who is a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. ( I know where i'm going Izzy) Since the Koran was plagiarised from both the Bible and the Torah the Sultan has just taken things far more literraly than Folau who only warns us that we'll all go to hell for living a life the way we choose to live it. The Sultan of Brunei wants to send us all there directly! The thing is, millions of Australians agree with Folau and i have no problem with that as long as you don't shove it down my throat. The Sultan just wants to re-enact the "Red Wedding" and cut my throat for daring to question. But should Folau be sacked while Australia continues to have a strong economic and trade relationship with Brunei?

Why does Australia not sever ties with Brunei completely? Apart from a few articles about human rights violations you wouldn't know this has happened right on our doorstep? Israel Folau is an easier target. I don't agree with what he said and he really should've kept his trap shut, but today the Sultan of Brunei is still the Sultan, Israel Folau has been sacked and outrage ensues. He has his views and beliefs and yes they're nutty, but it's Australia that has gone balls out stark raving bonkers because he expresses his own personal beliefs. Oh the outrage when a Sports star says we're all going to hell! Let me tell you something, it's a bloody long queue to get in!
Amnesty International has called Brunei’s claims that the laws are preventive “callous and reckless” and called on the country to repeal them immediately.
“To defend the threat of amputation and stoning as aiming to ‘rehabilitate and nurture’ is plainly absurd,” Stephen Cockburn, the deputy director of global issues at Amnesty International, said in a statement. “Merely enacting such laws creates a toxic and threatening environment.”. Instead of laughing off "Silly Izzy's" comments we go berserk with furious anger and condemnation. Perhaps we should direct that anger elsewhere?

 

[caspian]

Nonsense.

There actually is no definition if free speech in this country. Except in relation to political discussion that the high court found was implied in the constitution.

There is precedent but ultimately the administration of law is not for you to define.

Interesting article

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...t/news-story/ee4b1e2caf807e86fd9db89cc77a1326

My tip is watch the ARU stay the hell away from referring to his stance on the gay marriage legislation.

The semantics, the grey areas are different country to country but the general gist of free speech is pretty close to what I described.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

The semantics, the grey areas are different country to country but the general gist of free speech is pretty close to what I described.

Nuuh

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I’ve never felt all opinions are equal. The whole assholes analogy is probably more true than people think. Some people have 70 year old man arseh*le type opinions, others a well maintained 20 year old kinda date

The 20 year old's is just getting stretched and they don't even know it, by the time it's gaped and their wearing colostomy bags, they'll just look at it and go, 'Huh, how'd that happen' and then carry on because they don't know any better.

 

[caspian]

JackFlash two things here:

We’re very good at wrecking middle eastern countries so if you’re lusting for blood then relax, we have you covered

Thebrunei thing is a symptom of the western world’s craven and morally bankrupt support of Saudi Arabia, which is by far the main supporter and founder of Wahhabism, which is basically the Westbrook baptist church of Islam. We give em money, they spread their toxic doctrine it’s that simple. Islamophobes have this weird historical blindness here, yes extremist Islam is horrible, where did it spring from and who funded its uprising? Surprise surprise, it was america’s doing in their desperate quest for oil. I understand the anger but it’s a case of knowing your enemy.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Given the state of RU in Australia it would only add to the dumpster fire of their attendances & viewing audience issue.

Yeah, it's amazing. Basketball in this country in the early 90s was huge then it died a very quick death (except for Perth) . They went from packing out Rod Laver Arena to struggling to fill 3,000 seat netball stadiums. In the late 90s when I was living in Canberra, the Super 12s Rugby was huge, the Brumbies were the hot ticket in town and they were filling Bruce Stadium, fast forward 20 years and no one in great numbers really cares about it too much.

 

[Jibroni]

Interesting Article in Todays SMH.

Folau has grounds for legal claim against religious discrimination, say experts

By Anna Patty

Wallabies star Israel Folau will have a legal defence on the grounds of alleged religious discrimination under national employment law if Rugby Australia terminates his contract. Expert views on his legal position emerged as Folau fronted Rugby Australia at its Sydney headquarters on Friday less than a day after the sport's governing body had threatened to sack him.

The controversy erupted after he posted a warning on social media saying that "Hell waits" drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolators unless they repent. Folau made a similar comment a year ago. Rugby Australia's threat to terminate Folau's multimillion-dollar four-year contract came less than a week after he became Super Rugby’s record top try-scorer. Corporate sponsor Qantas publicly condemned his latest comments saying they did not "reflect the spirit of inclusion and diversity" it supports.

All states and territories apart from NSW and South Australia offer legal protections to employees and independent contractors against discrimination on the grounds of religion. However, an employee from any state can make a claim against dismissal under the Commonwealth Fair Work Act 2009 alleging discrimination under section 772 on the grounds of religion. Rugby Australia said Folau was an "employee" of Rugby Australia and the NSW Waratahs.
Mark Fowler, an adjunct associate professor of law at the University of Notre Dame, said that Folau, as an employee, could argue he was sacked on the basis of his religion under the Fair Work Act.

He said Folau would not have any protection under the Anti-Discrimination Act in NSW because it does not protect against religious discrimination, unlike equivalent legislation in Victoria and the ACT. Rugby Australia has said that while Folau was "entitled to his religious beliefs", the way he had expressed them in social media posts was "inconsistent with the values of the sport".

Rugby Australia said Folau could not share material that "condemns, vilifies or discriminates against people on the basis of their sexuality".
The Rugby Australia code of conduct says players are expected to "treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability". The organisation says any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination "has no place in rugby".

Mr Fowler said that a court was yet to consider whether comments such as those made by Folau could amount to vilification or discrimination at law and that the code of conduct would be read as subject to the protections from religious discrimination within the Fair Work Act. He said that his case would also rest on whether Rugby Australia could successfully argue that its action was not based on Folau's religion.

"A court may undertake an exercise in balancing what Mr Folau has said with the action against him on the basis of his religious belief," Mr Fowler said.
"On what is publicly reported, it would seem hard to say that the action Rugby Australia is proposing is not because of his religious belief."
Maurice Blackburn principal lawyer Kamal Farouque agreed Folau could make a claim of alleged unlawful termination on the basis of his religion under the Fair Work Act. He said other arguments might also be made depending on the wording of his contract.

The Australian Council of Trade Unions declined to comment on the Folau case or the union movement's position on employees being sacked for the public expression of personal beliefs. But one union, the National Tertiary Education Union, has stood behind James Cook University academic Peter Ridd who was sacked after he expressed dissident views on climate change. Broadcaster Alan Jones said Rugby Australia was only worried about the potential loss of sponsorship money and sacking Folau is a "slippery slope" for free speech in Australia.

"Out there, people now are terrified of saying anything; they don’t know what they can say," Jones said on 2GB on Friday morning. The Folau family was Mormon before turning to the Pentecostal denomination, Assemblies of God, in 2011. While preaching at The Truth of Jesus Christ Church Sydney, Folau has been critical of "man-made" customs and traditions, including the way Christmas is celebrated and the "sprinkling" of water on babies' heads at christenings.

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

The NRL have said publicly they won't have him.

Surprised by that they usually don’t care about the image of their game

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Surprised by that they usually don’t care about the image of their game

I think they're a bit sensitive at the moment because their image is so far in the gutter.

Suits us. Aussie rules participation benefits from it. Phil Davus said thus week growing uo in Canberra he played Aussir rules because his mum wouldn't let him play league.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Can we get a comment from the Pope?

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

I think they're a bit sensitive at the moment because their image is so far in the gutter.

Suits us. Aussie rules participation benefits from it. Phil Davus said thus week growing uo in Canberra he played Aussir rules because his mum wouldn't let him play league.

Is it as bad up their as vic fans think it is with nrl fans thinking afl is out to get them and conspiracy theory’s on afl attendance and members

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Is it as bad up their as vic fans think it is with nrl fans thinking afl is out to get them and conspiracy theory’s on afl attendance and members

I think it's a polarisation. The diehards circle the wagons and casual fans turn off. They rely very heavily on those casual fans for TV ratings though.
When they can't fill ANZ fir state8f ir8g8n you'll know their screwed.

 

[Malifice]

The dumpster fire aka Masher is gone, with some points for repeated abuse and shitposting in general.

Keep it civil people or else this whole thread gets nuked.

 

[Back One Out]

There is nothing in the new testament about gays.

False. Homophobic teachings are found in both new and old testaments.


Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

Romans 1:24-28


Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10


We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

1 Timothy 1:9-10


Isn't it wonderful that I can freely quote this shit from the Holy Bible? It's a big no-no to paraphrase these passages from the bible and use them as a meme like Folau did. Likewise, I doubt I'd be given a pass if I came up with crap like that off the top of my head, or if I quoted some blatantly homophobic lyrics from an Eminem song.

 

[kranky al]

It might be time to kill this thread. It's become a Being Gay vs Free Speech thing.

False. Homophobic teachings are found in both new and old testaments.


Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

Romans 1:24-28


Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10


We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

1 Timothy 1:9-10


Isn't it wonderful that I can freely quote this shit from the Holy Bible? It's a big no-no to paraphrase these passages from the bible and use them as a meme like Folau did. Likewise, I doubt I'd be given a pass if I came up with crap like that off the top of my head, or if I quoted some blatantly homophobic lyrics from an Eminem song.

Sorry - i mispoke - jesus said nothing about it in the new testament

 

[Malifice]

This thread isnt about Islam (and it's not really about Christianity either).

Can we not go there please?

 

[Marcel Proust]

This thread isnt about Islam (and it's not really about Christianity either).

Can we not go there please?

he got banned, discriminated against, for expressing his christian view point

 

[nobbyiscool]

Me reading this thread: