Religion Folau

[Malifice]

disgraceful....................he was preaching his religious beliefs. have you read 1984? familiar with wrongthink? disgusting. and here you are celebrating the loss of our liberties one by one

Wut?

He exersized his liberty. To post a view. On social media.

The view he posted not only contravened his employment contract but it stands to cost Rugby Australia tens of millions in sponsorship dollars, if the various sponsors that have threatened to pull out of sponsorship, do so.

Its like you have the liberty to walk into your local Bikie bar and slag off the whole chapter. Just dont be surprised when there are consequences to your actions, and they proceed to enlighten you on your mistake.

Israel is fully aware that his post stands to cost his employer a ton of money. He was told in no uncertain terms last time he did it to cease and desist.

You're not exactly covering yourself in glory here.

At least you've got smartest brain posting some genuinel shit to make you look less bad.

 

[FreoRicci]

Feels like he intentionally did this, to break from his contract. He must be a dumb man to have post that, knowing there would be repercussions. I mean come on

 

[Dan]

I hold dear strong anti-dickhead beliefs and "freedom of speech is king", apparently, so jam it up your race-baiting clacker THEN get back in the bin.

What kind of Neanderthal halfwit fashions homophobic abuse that will rightly see Folau condemned into a warped platform to attack Muslims?

The bin thanks. At once.

One should be able to express their religious beliefs (no matter how stupid it may sound) without losing their job.

If anyone is legitimately upset by what he said....engage in discourse with the person or in future ignore anything he says or posts online.

 

[hilly]

One should be able to express their religious beliefs (no matter how stupid it may sound) without losing their job.

If anyone is legitimately upset by what he said....engage in discourse with the person or in future ignore anything he says or posts online.

I'm sure the Wallabies sponsors were thrilled.

 

[samFFC]

It is terribly bad and a wrong thing if you want to procreate naturally

Just doesn't work.

Er ok?

 

[Dan]

I'm sure the Wallabies sponsors were thrilled.

Yeah they probably didn't like it.

But taking the guys job is more outrageous than the tweets themselves.

Major, major overreaction.

I'm sure there's AFL/Club sponsors that aren't thrilled when players mess up on and off field.

 

[Upgrayedd]

disgraceful....................he was preaching his religious beliefs. have you read 1984? familiar with wrongthink? disgusting. and here you are celebrating the loss of our liberties one by one

....It's pretty bloody clear you haven't read 1984

 

[Kappa]

One should be able to express their religious beliefs (no matter how stupid it may sound) without losing their job.

If anyone is legitimately upset by what he said....engage in discourse with the person or in future ignore anything he says or posts online.

What utter garbage. You have the freedom to choose and practice your own religion, you do not have the right to abuse, demonize or belittle sections of society without there being consequences.

 

[Dan]

What utter garbage. You have the freedom to choose and practice your own religion, you do not have the right to abuse, demonize or belittle sections of society without there being consequences.

Virtue signalling hero.

You keep fighting that good fight over some tweets.

 

[Kummerspeck]

Yeah they probably didn't like it.

But taking the guys job is more outrageous than the tweets themselves

Given he repeatedly breached the terms of his contract and was warned specifically about doing this exact thing, it's really not

 

[Kappa]

Virtue signalling hero.

You keep fighting that good fight over some tweets.

What on earth? Do you even understand what virtue signalling is? or is it just a buzz word you heard on reddit? Again you show how extremely ignorant you are, you fail to understand how "some tweets" from a prominent figure can have profound impacts on peoples lives. The homosexual suicide rate is so high because of just "some words" and "some tweets" like this, please get a basic understanding of the situation.

 

[Dan]

What on earth? Do you even understand what virtue signalling is? or is it just a buzz word you heard on reddit? Again you show how extremely ignorant you are, you fail to understand how "some tweets" from a prominent figure can have profound impacts on peoples lives. The homosexual suicide rate is so high because of just "some words" and "some tweets" like this, please get a basic understanding of the situation.

If suicide rates are so high as you say......because of words posted on a social media platforms....then why are we the public allowed to use these platforms on the internet? We're apparently killing all these gay people because of twitter, facebook, forums etc

Spare me the sensationalism.

 

[Dan]

Let's have some perspective on this.

Andrew Gaff - sucker punches an 18 year kid in a game last year. The same action outside the realms of the playing arena would lead to an arrest and jail time for the perpetrator.

He got 8 weeks for what he did. I think most would agree that's a fair enough penalty. He was punished accordingly and has now recently returned to playing again. Didn't lose he job.

Israel Folau - posts religious tweets that people thought were silly, stupid or offensive. He lost his job.

Which is worse......breaking an unsuspecting kids jaw or posting stupid shit on twitter?

If you're gonna tell me that Folua thing is worse....then I have nothing for you and I can't be bothered.

 

[saints_333]

Let's have some perspective on this.

Andrew Gaff - sucker punches an 18 year kid in a game last year. The same action outside the realms of the playing arena would lead to an arrest and jail time for the perpetrator.

He got 8 weeks for what he did. I think most would agree that's a fair enough penalty. He was punished accordingly and has now recently returned to playing again. Didn't lose he job.

Israel Folau - posts religious tweets that people thought were silly, stupid or offensive. He lost his job.

Which is worse......breaking an unsuspecting kids jaw or posting stupid shit on tweeter?

If you're gonna tell me that Folua thing is worse....then I have nothing for you and I can't be bothered.

Exactly. The problem is they don't have anything for you. It's just a world of everyone having an opinion but if a certain group doesn't agree with you, look out.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

What utter garbage. You have the freedom to choose and practice your own religion, you do not have the right to abuse, demonize or belittle sections of society without there being consequences.

Imagine if your nice little theory was actually put into practice - Muhammed Ali would never have been allowed to perform in a professional boxing match and should have been banned from boxing. What about all the kids inspired by top class athletes like Folau and Ali? Does that not outweigh the offense some may take by their archaic religious beliefs?

Muhammed Ali(1969)"All Jews/gentiles are devil.Everything black people do including homosexuality..come from whites"

 

[Sidthehat]

Imagine if your nice little theory was actually put into practice - Muhammed Ali would never have been allowed to perform in a professional boxing match and should have been banned from boxing. What about all the kids inspired by top class athletes like Folau and Ali? Does that not outweigh the offense some may take by their archaic religious beliefs?

Muhammed Ali(1969)"All Jews/gentiles are devil.Everything black people do including homosexuality..come from whites"

This was 50 years ago mate.

 

[Kummerspeck]

Israel Folau - posts religious tweets that people thought were silly, stupid or offensive. He lost his job.

Which is worse......breaking an unsuspecting kids jaw or posting stupid shit on twitter?

Again, he did the exact specific thing he'd been warned about previously to not do. This isn't outrage getting a guy fired, it was him ignoring repeated warnings from his employer. He's now welcome to go and work somewhere that doesn't mind him posting with their branding that gays will burn in hell.

How do you not get that?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

This was 50 years ago mate.

It seems like you actually believe that a religion like Islam for example has evolved to any significant degree. It's not like we have people blowing themselves up in the name of religion or killing homosexuals in the name of a religion or treating women as second class citizens in the name of religion is it....

This is from 2013 - see if you can spot a trend. How do you think homosexuals feel knowing the majority of Muslims think they should not be able to express their homosexuality? Do you think Bachar Houli is an outspoken supporter of gay rights? Or is he OK to hold his religious beliefs as long as he doesn't go on twitter and express them? There is more danger to society by not being more open about the fact that certain religious groups hold these beliefs and practice them - just because they don't express it on twitter does not mean it is not happening. Instead of trying to punish and sweep it under the carpet young children should be taught what these extremist religions actually teach so they can form tolerant opinions not based on hate and discrimination.

 

[TheMightyEagles]

Israel Folau's post is simply a reflection of orthodox Christian belief. It summarises Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 which is reproduced below (English Standard Version):

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

According to the 2016 Australian census more than half of the Australian population identified as some variety of Christian. A sizable minority of that group actively practise the religion, attend church and hold these beliefs. Without knowing the specifics of BigFooty's demographics I'm guessing that there would be a proportionate amount of posters here who would fall within that category, although it is not evident so far in this thread.

So I think we need to be careful not to scapegoat Israel Folau for being outspoken about relatively mainstream beliefs (even if we find them distasteful). Essentially he is doing what many pastors implore their congregations to do every Sunday. He will be seen as a martyr in many Christian communities inasmuch as he is being shamed for his post among the general public. Instead we should see him as a representative of the views of a sizable subsection of the Australian community.

The bigger and more nuanced conversation is how we balance the rights of people who identify as LGBT against the rights of Christians who hold these beliefs to self-expression. There's no easy answers generally but, at least in this case, the right for self-expression of mainstream beliefs by religious people would seem to outweigh the right of the LGBT community to freedom from offense. For one as a general principle we should always lean on the side of freedom of expression. Israel's post is also unlikely to lead to legitimate safety concerns for the LGBT community. Whether or not these beliefs are expressed in public forums, acceptance of LGBT people among certain segments of the religious community is always going to be an issue because of fundamental differences in values and ideology. Of course Israel's post won't fill LGBT people with feelings of love and acceptance but I question whether Israel Folau (or any other enthusiastic members of the flock) is the right source for that. If I took on board half of the nonsense I read on BigFooty I would feel rubbish too, but it doesn't follow that people should be censored to protect my sense of worth.

I accept the difference between freedom of expression in public and the workplace. However a level of protection is necessary in both. Whether or not it affects the bottom line at some point becomes a secondary consideration. For example it is plainly unacceptable to fire someone for openly being part of the LGBT community (c/f the 1970s) even if the firm's cliente would prefer to work with heterosexual staff. Also Rugby Australia may be legally entitled to terminate Israel Folau but that doesn't mean that it is immune from criticism for the decision.

And to directly answer the question, Israel Folau was a terrible footballer (a poor man's Mason Cox) and I hope for everyone's sake that he never comes back.

 

[Hobbes]

He should be able to say whatever he believes.

I don't agree with him, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to say it.

Dicks like him are a reason that suicide rates are high for gay kids.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Dicks like him are a reason that suicide rates are high for gay kids.

What about the poor atheists he wished hell upon?

 

[iameviljez]

Is there the slightest chance that Israel Folau will return to the AFL as it seems he is about to be sacked by the ARU and the NRL don't want him back. So unless he gets an offer from French RU he could try and worm his way back into AF. Just saying

If he's too homophobic for rugby, he has zero chance in the AFL.

 

[iameviljez]

What about the poor atheists he wished hell upon?

Atheists haven't copped it like LGBT people have.

 

[Colonial]

But but but FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!

Lol yep.

And they exercised theirs.

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[Colonial]

disgraceful....................he was preaching his religious beliefs. have you read 1984? familiar with wrongthink? disgusting. and here you are celebrating the loss of our liberties one by one

No you are demanding that free speach only goes one way.
You are also demanding free from consequence not free speach.

If he didn't want to be in this situation he shouldn't of signed the social media to be the face of the sport.

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