Religion Folau

[Evolved1]

Sure, if you breach a specific clause agreed to as cause for termination; if that’s a legal clause, then you’re done. Obviously Folau doesn’t agree and he’s going to challenge that in the courts. So let him. I find the active resistance to a bloke trying to raise funds to exercise his legal rights objectionable.

Personally, I don’t like to think that any contract could have a legal clause that suppressed the expression of religious beliefs. So what he thinks all “sinners” will go to hell? Is this new?

Where do you draw the line? Is religious freedom a get out of jail card for everything written in a religious text?
If Folau posted that homosexuals should be put to death (as written in the book of Leviticus), do you think the PR effort on his behalf would be equally effective?

 

[CM86]

The paradox here is that if you don’t believe in hell, what’s the difference? If you do believe in hell, then you probably agree with him. Or if you believe in a different hell, then he’s the one going to your hell anyway. So ... what? He’s damning us to an imaginary place that we don’t believe in?

I don’t think contracts should be allowed to suppress religious expression. Folau didn’t just come up with this stuff and no doubt believes his misguided proselytising is doing the Lord’s work. It’s a slippery slope picking and choosing what parts of a religion people are free to express, and which parts to suppress.

So if an imaginary place has been explained to you... and then you're told you're thought of as being there... This doesn't matter, as you don't believe in it?


Besides. The Bible didn't originally mention homosexuals...
It mentioned a man sleeping with another man... The act.

More recent bibles have been re-written to include the term homosexual.


Once again, this is an attack on homosexuals, not on religion.

 

[Crankitup]

Where do you draw the line? Is religious freedom a get out of jail card for everything written in a religious text?
If Folau posted that homosexuals should be put to death (as written in the book of Leviticus), do you think the PR effort on his behalf would be equally effective?

If he posted that view he would be denounced on all sides since Christians believe there is a new covenant in operation.

 

[CakeEater]

I have no idea how this got to 177 pages.

 

[randyzany]

It's a good point but do you distinguish between working for the Church and working for an organisation owned by the Church that isn't itself a religious institution? For example, many of our hospitals are owned/controlled by religious institutions. I wouldn't think its okay for doctors and nurses to be excluded for being gay.

I was mostly thinking of schools where it's assumed Christine doctrine would be part of the curriculum taught to students and there'd be an expectation that employees/teachers wouldn't deliberately set out to contradict the values the school espouses. I agree that it'd be inappropriate and unacceptable in any other type of work, such as the health industry, where religious values have no relevance to the main role of the jobs in an organization.

 

[Crankitup]

I have no idea how this got to 177 pages.

Sames reason the Goodes one is over 100 now. People love arguing.

 

[CM86]

I have no idea how this got to 177 pages.

Because it's a Trojan horse issue.

 

[Monkey King]

Where do you draw the line? Is religious freedom a get out of jail card for everything written in a religious text?
If Folau posted that homosexuals should be put to death (as written in the book of Leviticus), do you think the PR effort on his behalf would be equally effective?

Inciting violence is rightfully illegal.

Telling me that if I don’t follow “the rules”, then I miss out on their heaven and head down to the other imaginary place is nothing new. It’s probably less meaningful to me than telling me I’m going to miss out Nirvana and be stuck once more in the cycle of death and rebirth. Neither religious belief offends me much.

 

[CakeEater]

Sames reason the Goodes one is over 100 now. People love arguing.

Thats fair, im bemused that what is a straight up employment law conversation turned into 178 pages.

Once Qantas threatened to pull their funds- RA had no other choice to let him go.

How does RA pay Folaus wages ( and the other players wages) without a major sponsor in a W/cup year.

 

[Monkey King]

So if an imaginary place has been explained to you... and then you're told you're thought of as being there... This doesn't matter, as you don't believe in it?

Absolutely! How many versions of hell are there? I mean every sect of every religion thinks everyone else is going to hell. And they all think I’m going to hell, coz I don’t believe in any of their God’s. And this should bother me why?

 

[Evolved1]

If he posted that view he would be denounced on all sides since Christians believe there is a new covenant in operation.

The relevance of the old testament seems to differ depending on the extremism of each church group/denomination.

Christianity and Islam are moderated by the secular environment of Australia. In Uganda, (some) Christians made a push for homosexuality to be given a death sentence.

 

[CM86]

Absolutely! How many versions of hell are there? I mean every sect of every religion thinks everyone else is going to hell. And they all think I’m going to hell, coz I don’t believe in any of their God’s. And this should bother me why?

What if someone sent unsolicited messages to someone, detailing their imaginary but sexually implicit thoughts about that person?

 

[Evolved1]

Inciting violence is rightfully illegal.

Telling me that if I don’t follow “the rules”, then I miss out on their heaven and head down to the other imaginary place is nothing new. It’s probably less meaningful to me than telling me I’m going to miss out Nirvana and be stuck once more in the cycle of death and rebirth. Neither religious belief offends me much.

I relate this issue to the Adam Goodes racism saga.

As a white heterosexual male, I can't relate to either issue on the basis of feeling personally offended. The only way I can understand the victims is by listening to them and trying to see the issue from their point of view. There have been several gays who have shared their pov on this thread, so it's easy to see the hurt that the churches stance against homosexuals has caused. In cases like this, I see personal testimony as far stronger evidence than any theoretical discussion about who should or shouldn't be offended.

 

[Bazzar]

The possibility of this circus bankrupting RA is sadly very real I’m afraid.

Would be good to see them get a dose of their own medicine.

 

[Evolved1]

Because it's a Trojan horse issue.

Well said.

It's fascinating that each side of the debate sees the other as the one pulling the Trojan horse.

 

[Evolved1]

Sames reason the Goodes one is over 100 now. People love arguing.

I can make an argument that I don't like arguing.

 

[M Malice]

I don't think the non believers are speaking from a stance of being worried about homosexuals going to hell.

Folau spewing forth that tripe is by inference putting forward the opinion that homosexuality is abhorrent and a sin. It is coming from a bigoted sanctimonious judgmental position, that is the issue.

 

[AM]

"You're going to hell"

Izzy (I've just raked in an easy $2 mill) Folau

 

[chelseacarlton]

What are you talking about? The State’s were one of the last to abolish slavery. Certainly not leaders of the abolition movement, more so the recipients of spreading European sentiment.

What should not be lost here, is that someone has brought this up in relation to Folau’s skin tone. Astounding!

And the most important nation to do so in my opinion.
The tone of his forbidden tattoos, which he apparently regrets, or his Polynesian hue?
Yeh, I think I read that somewhere in here.
He would have made a useful slave I guess, but so would have most afl ruckman or any pro sportspeople, regardless of their skin colour.
The real issue is that the Abrahamic desert trilogy all have slavery as a right written into its text as privilege!

 

[Crankitup]

Thats fair, im bemused that what is a straight up employment law conversation turned into 178 pages.

Once Qantas threatened to pull their funds- RA had no other choice to let him go.

How does RA pay Folaus wages ( and the other players wages) without a major sponsor in a W/cup year.

Maybe the ACL could start a campaign for Christians to boycott Qantas for their influence over the board of RA and for their hypocrisy.

 

[quotemokc]

The Chinese?
Did they?
They wrote rules according to their deities wishes did they?
Very interesting, please do elaborate?

Chinese gods and immortals - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Chinese are definitely at the forefront of LGBTQASNFA+ rights though.....

 

[Cooldude]

Chinese laws were not based on religion, in fact, religion rarely had any influence in the governing of the dynasties throughout history

It's governance is in fact anti-religion throughout history if anything, religious organisations don't gain a significant foothold in how the country's run 95% of the time

 

[Evolved1]

And the most important nation to do so in my opinion.
The tone of his forbidden tattoos, which he apparently regrets, or his Polynesian hue?
Yeh, I think I read that somewhere in here.
He would have made a useful slave I guess, but so would have most afl ruckman or any pro sportspeople, regardless of their skin colour.
The real issue is that the Abrahamic desert trilogy all have slavery as a right written into its text as privilege!

Christians are being persecuted because we deny them their religious freedom to own slaves.

 

[RupieDupie]

Absolutely! How many versions of hell are there? I mean every sect of every religion thinks everyone else is going to hell. And they all think I’m going to hell, coz I don’t believe in any of their God’s. And this should bother me why?

If the people in charge make laws against you based on their religious beliefs.

For example, Folau states that if he saw someone walking towards a hole, he might tell them so, they may not like it, but it is the "truth".

But what if the Gubmint feels that telling people that they are about to walk into a hole is not enough? I mean... it's a pretty fecking deep hole... so the Gubmint decides they want to put a law into place to prevent people walking into that hole...

 

[Evolved1]

A more appropriate relevant comparison would be a Christian being hired in some LGBT committee/council and instead of promoting the agenda of his workplace, he spends his time undermining it, proselytizing to his colleagues about how they're going directly to hell if they don't repent and stop sinning for being attracted and making out with the same sex, etc...

Another would be a butcher hiring a Vegan who then refuses to sell any meat to customers and even admonishes them for sustaining an industry that kills hundreds of thousands of innocent animals every year or vice versa hiring a meat eater to work in a Vegan/Vegetarian who waffles on to Vegan customers about how meat is an essential part of a healthy diet, etc...

Personally it baffles me why a homosexual would ever wanna work, let alone consider, in an organization that has clearly outlined their sexuality as immoral or any other views that are important to them. It's not like Christian workplaces make up a huge percentage of the jobs available in a secular society like Australia. The vast majority of jobs do not come from religious institutions and therefore should never ever be a need for anyone that doesn't agree with Christine doctrine to resort to work in such a setting out of desperation.

You post as if Christianity has a unified view on the issue. I've met many Christians who don't see homosexuals as immoral or abnormal. They view fundamentalist Christianity as bible worship (idolatry).