forward line changes

[drexel]

These suggested forward lines are way too tall IMO.

Mckinley may not be considered tall but he plays like one so i don't see a position for him unless its FF.

FF- Lecras - Mckinley/Lynch/Hunter/Notte - Naiatanui
HF- Swift - Kennedy - Jetta

 

[PRANKSTER666]

+1

Look at Geelong. Average forward line but they kick enough each week due to the excellent delivery from their midfield.

Why did we not kick big scores when we had our super midfield?

You don't need a great forward line if you move the ball quickly and efficiently. We will never kick big scores with Worsfold at the helm, his game style doesn't allow it, and without a super midfield it doesn't allow us to win either...

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Why did we not kick big scores when we had our super midfield?

You don't need a great forward line if you move the ball quickly and efficiently. We will never kick big scores with Worsfold at the helm, his game style doesn't allow it, and without a super midfield it doesn't allow us to win either...

No way you can say that, really need to see what our cattle are capable down the track.

 

[Monocle]

McKinley needs to stay in the team, he complements LeCras perfectly. When you hold down Lecras (Sydney game), McKinley will bob up to pick 4 or 5 goals. Same when McKinley gets held, LeCras bobs up to kick 5 or 6 goals. Not many teams have 2 quality mid size defenders that will hold both down at same time. McKinleys presence in the team lessens the pressure on LeCras.

BINGO !

On top of what you have said the more they play together the better their understanding of each others game develops. They will be a formidable pairing of small forwards for our next tilt at a serious premiership bid.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

No way you can say that, really need to see what our cattle are capable down the track.

Sure I can, and I did.

I was debating the fact that another poster believes good delivery to the forward line from the midfield = goals in which they used Geelong as an example.

During the 2005/06 year when we had the best midfield going around with excellent foot skills we still hardly ever kicked big scores and we hardly ever blew teams away. It was because we were inefficient going forward with this Worsfold game plan, we have the same inefficient game plan without a super midfield and we will not kick enough goals to win enough games.

Go back and check the stats since Worsfold has been at the helm, have a look at the average goals kicked per match compared with other not so successful teams and other successful teams at present. Also have a look at our goal/point ratio which has been horrendous due to this inefficent style of play.

How many goals have we kicked this year from snaps and just out and out hustle forcing the ball forward. How many times have we taken marks from a lead somewhere near the corridor of the 50?

Keep bringing the ball up slowly down the wings and kicking to a wide lead and see how many games we win...

 

[Lynch takes a mark]

Sure I can, and I did.

I was debating the fact that another poster believes good delivery to the forward line from the midfield = goals in which they used Geelong as an example.

During the 2005/06 year when we had the best midfield going around with excellent foot skills we still hardly ever kicked big scores and we hardly ever blew teams away. It was because we were inefficient going forward with this Worsfold game plan, we have the same inefficient game plan without a super midfield and we will not kick enough goals to win enough games.

Go back and check the stats since Worsfold has been at the helm, have a look at the average goals kicked per match compared with other not so successful teams and other successful teams at present. Also have a look at our goal/point ratio which has been horrendous due to this inefficent style of play.

How many goals have we kicked this year from snaps and just out and out hustle forcing the ball forward. How many times have we taken marks from a lead somewhere near the corridor of the 50?

Keep bringing the ball up slowly down the wings and kicking to a wide lead and see how many games we win...

Or maybe the Geelong of 07-09 is so far beyond the development of the WC 05-06 it's not even funny.

Geelong has the most dominant midfield I have ever seen, they have probably 5-7 guys rotating in there that are tough as nails and use the ball well - we had 3 and the few times we didn't have CJ in the squad we struggled to physically compete with the opposition inside midfielders.

Selwood/Ablett/Bartel/Corey/Ling/Chapman are all very strong players, compare that to guys like Embley/Fletcher/Braun/Butler none of them are close to as productive body on body as the Geelong guys - Cousins/Judd/Kerr - sure but we are still short 4 other guys who have strength over the ball. Why do you think Geelong were able to thump us a few times in our dominance or why a far less talented team in Sydney pushed us to the limits so often.

IMO - the way we are building the midfield now, based around the strong inside midfielders is the right way to go about it over the long term. Shuey/ Scooter Selwood/Ebert/Swift/Masten are all tough and hard at the ball, good to very bloody by hand and all (with a few pre seasons) will have fantastic endurance & repeat efforts. In today's evolving game of breaking the lines, big stoppages and rolling zones it is vital to be able to move the ball quickly, breaking a tackle and having a guy able to compose himself enough to hit another guy in space opens up an opportunity to move the ball far cleaner than if we can't break the tackles and are forced to kick under pressure - targets are missed and the goals are scored up the other end.

Watch Geelong next week physically dominate our young guys, not by being quicker but by having the physical strength needed to have that extra 1 or 2 seconds to compose themselves and hit a guy in space.

No more talk about contested marks or forward structure, physical dominance of the midfield will be the way forward and we are building towards that, slowley.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

Or maybe the Geelong of 07-09 is so far beyond the development of the WC 05-06 it's not even funny.

Geelong has the most dominant midfield I have ever seen, they have probably 5-7 guys rotating in there that are tough as nails and use the ball well - we had 3 and the few times we didn't have CJ in the squad we struggled to physically compete with the opposition inside midfielders.

Selwood/Ablett/Bartel/Corey/Ling/Chapman are all very strong players, compare that to guys like Embley/Fletcher/Braun/Butler none of them are close to as productive body on body as the Geelong guys - Cousins/Judd/Kerr - sure but we are still short 4 other guys who have strength over the ball. Why do you think Geelong were able to thump us a few times in our dominance or why a far less talented team in Sydney pushed us to the limits so often.

IMO - the way we are building the midfield now, based around the strong inside midfielders is the right way to go about it over the long term. Shuey/ Scooter Selwood/Ebert/Swift/Masten are all tough and hard at the ball, good to very bloody by hand and all (with a few pre seasons) will have fantastic endurance & repeat efforts. In today's evolving game of breaking the lines, big stoppages and rolling zones it is vital to be able to move the ball quickly, breaking a tackle and having a guy able to compose himself enough to hit another guy in space opens up an opportunity to move the ball far cleaner than if we can't break the tackles and are forced to kick under pressure - targets are missed and the goals are scored up the other end.

Watch Geelong next week physically dominate our young guys, not by being quicker but by having the physical strength needed to have that extra 1 or 2 seconds to compose themselves and hit a guy in space.

No more talk about contested marks or forward structure, physical dominance of the midfield will be the way forward and we are building towards that, slowley.

I didn't use Geelong as a point in case to put forward my argument, I was merely responding to somebody who did. Geelong are an anomaly and shouldn't be used to compare against.

Feel free to compare our efficiency with a dozen other sides during our premiership window and present.

The two areas we did dominate during 05/06 was possession and inside 50's yet we never kicked big scores, doesn't make sense to me and can only mean inefficiency when we had the ball.

 

[bodazoka]

Sure I can, and I did.

I was debating the fact that another poster believes good delivery to the forward line from the midfield = goals in which they used Geelong as an example.

During the 2005/06 year when we had the best midfield going around with excellent foot skills we still hardly ever kicked big scores and we hardly ever blew teams away. It was because we were inefficient going forward with this Worsfold game plan, we have the same inefficient game plan without a super midfield and we will not kick enough goals to win enough games.

We played one on one and allot of the time we allowed the opposition to stay in the game rather than dominating them for 4 quarters. We do not have anywhere near the same game plan going forward though, we are however still inefficient going forward. When our midfielders kick to the advantage of our forwards we are efficient, when they do not we get rebounded on. Problem lies in the midfield and the forward line delivery, also has to do with the lack of a pure small forward and a fairly average HF line.

Go back and check the stats since Worsfold has been at the helm, have a look at the average goals kicked per match compared with other not so successful teams and other successful teams at present. Also have a look at our goal/point ratio which has been horrendous due to this inefficent style of play.

Couple of reasons why we had a poor point to goal ratio:

1. We relied heavily on midfielders coming through and kicking goals, which is a low percentage play compared to a contested mark and set shot.
2. Lynch, Hansen and Hunter are all poor kicks for goal, especially from 0-30m out having those guys in the forward line is a 50/50 prospect
3. We did hug the corridor allot which generally leads to our marks taking place on the wing

We are now playing the middle allot more and we have McKinley and LeCras who are great set shots, we are also relying more on the mark and goal rather than our midfielders coming through and kicking goals. The only reason why we are poor at this atm is because our midfielders aernt carrying the ball well and they dont deliver into the 50 well.

How many goals have we kicked this year from snaps and just out and out hustle forcing the ball forward. How many times have we taken marks from a lead somewhere near the corridor of the 50?

Keep bringing the ball up slowly down the wings and kicking to a wide lead and see how many games we win...

The only reasons why we have moved the ball through the wings is because other teams have forced us to do so. There is such a thing as an opposition, there aim is to not let you play the style of game you want to play.

 

[bodazoka]

IMO our main defficiencies in the forward line are.

1. We are missing an effective FF, effective meaning able to take a contested mark. We are missing a small crumming forward, which is absolutely crucial in todays game and our HF line (other than Kennedy and McKinley sometimes) is devoid of talent. We need to develope another midfielder/HF that can deliver advantage passes to the forwards.

2. The midfield aernt getting the ball in quick enough to by pass the flood of opposition midfielders going back. And when we are able to get the ball into the 50 its generally not to the advantage of our forwards. As fantastic as LeCras is even he cant goal unless he has half a chance and in the third quarter he was delivered a few decent kicks which resulted in goals.

Between Notte coming in, the extra development of Kennedy, LeCras and McKinley, the crumming forward we are bound to draft soon and the growth of our midfielders all of these deficincies will sort themselves out in the next few years. Bah the crummer and mabye another HF we all ready hae the cattle though.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I am still a fan of Lynch and personally would make him the FF. He kicked 60 odd goals in our premiership season and granted we had a different midfield but right at the moment he looks lost to me. He simply is not a ruckman and as someone else mentioned why not just throw big Nat to the wolves and get 10 games under his belt this year.

Hypothetical but I think Lynch would kick 80 plus playing for Geelong. I think he is a better player than Hawkins and Mooney. Thats just my opinion.

Lecras is an absolute Gun and quickly becoming near on our best player. The best kick in the club be that as a goal kicker or even passing the ball. Might be in the best 5 kicks in the League.
Recruited as a midfielder and has done an outstanding job as a forward. not sure about his tank but if we are building to move forward then throw him on the ball for a few weeks and see what happens.

Must build our midfield first, forward line will be last on the list for Woosha to fix.

I am afraid there just is not any easy answers with our list, we just don't have enough very good footballers which are kind of important in a football team.

 

[bodazoka]

Could even be a case of trading Lynch to someone like the Bulldogs.... I know its bad I shouldnt say it for fear of being eaten but unless he starts to perform to the standard we know he can play he is going to be dropped when Naita and Notte come into the team end of this year or begining of next. And I would hate to see the big guy become depth in our team for young players when he can have some finals success in a really good team and become a "lynch" pin there.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Could even be a case of trading Lynch to someone like the Bulldogs.... I know its bad I shouldnt say it for fear of being eaten but unless he starts to perform to the standard we know he can play he is going to be dropped when Naita and Notte come into the team end of this year or begining of next. And I would hate to see the big guy become depth in our team for young players when he can have some finals success in a really good team and become a "lynch" pin there.

No what you say mate is true, but I just think he has been stuffed around to much and does not know whether he is Artha or Martha now. He needs to play in one spot and he has performed admirably in a forward line when at FF even though the delivery is poor and plan in there is poor.
He is still pretty young with good years ahead of him. I think we need to settle down some of our players, Kennedy at CHF. (Full stop) Lynch at FF. (Full Stop) as examples and leave them their long term until they just simply don't perform. Other than half a dozen of our players who play the same spot every week most swap and change to much. Look what it has done for Hurn this year. he is settled and playing good footy. Even the kids , maybe bring them in and say you have 6 weeks on the wing to see how what you have got, or rover, or wherever they are suited. I know most sides are flexible these days but the better sides and thats what we want to try and become have a large % of their players that know where they play.

 

[juddy_Like]

Mckinley needs some urgency in his game. I mean if he gets knocked down, he stays down. He has a place in the team no doubt but needs to match his talent with heart.

Brown forward makes sense. Esp when you have Spangher on the sidelines who can replace him down back. Brown straightens us up and Kennedy doesnt have to do everything himself.


So Idealy it would look like
FF: McKinley Kennedy Lecras
HF: Lynch Brown (Rest Mid)

Only problem I see... is that the ball will get out as quickly as it gets in. Thats why McKinley needs to lift his work-rate and pressure so that the ball doesnt leave the F50 so easily.

 

[juddy_Like]

Could even be a case of trading Lynch to someone like the Bulldogs.... I know its bad I shouldnt say it for fear of being eaten but unless he starts to perform to the standard we know he can play he is going to be dropped when Naita and Notte come into the team end of this year or begining of next. And I would hate to see the big guy become depth in our team for young players when he can have some finals success in a really good team and become a "lynch" pin there.

Valid Point.


Only problem I see is that the Bullies will give bugger all for Lynch.

 

[drexel]

I don't mind the idea of trading Lynch to the Bulldogs. Maybe Lynch plus 2nd round pick for their first round pick 13?

Lynch doesn't have a role ATM and with no finals near, it would be a win/win for both parties.

The only worry is we have a history of trading dud forwards over east and it may finally bite us. Spinks, McDougall, Haynes, M.White...

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I don't mind the idea of trading Lynch to the Bulldogs. Maybe Lynch plus 2nd round pick for their first round pick 13?

Lynch doesn't have a role ATM and with no finals near, it would be a win/win for both parties.

The only worry is we have a history of trading dud forwards over east and it may finally bite us. Spinks, McDougall, Haynes, M.White...

But Lynch is not a dud forward in my view, in fact I would love to see him play ina good forward structure with good delivery.

Our forward structure is the dud! Our plan going to the forwards is the Dud!

 

[bodazoka]

Agreed with that GWS he is a good forward which is why we might be able to shift him on and still get a decent pick in return. Id also love to see him play in a good team again rather than being swapped around in ours with little hope of playing finals and more than likely being pushed out for a youth policy.

 

[Marlin01]

I would hate to see the Eagles trade Lynchy, I reckon it would break his mighty heart.

 

[Winky]

+1

Look at Geelong. Average forward line but they kick enough each week due to the excellent delivery from their midfield.

Yes but they still have a good big leading forwards in Mooney and Hawkins who provide targets and makes space for blokes like Johnson, Rooke, Lonegan and the midfielders they send to the forward line.

We on the other hand, have Lynch there for some of the time and rely on LeCras and McKinley as the main forwards. I am so sick of seeing players bring the ball forward and have to stop and go sideways as there is no one to kick it to. Putting Cox up there is a waste of time. Put Lynch at full forward, Kennedy at CHF and leave them there until they get some system going. At the very worst it will give the young players some confidence to kick to players who may take a mark.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Mckinley needs some urgency in his game. I mean if he gets knocked down, he stays down. He has a place in the team no doubt but needs to match his talent with heart.

Brown forward makes sense. Esp when you have Spangher on the sidelines who can replace him down back. Brown straightens us up and Kennedy doesnt have to do everything himself.


So Idealy it would look like
FF: McKinley Kennedy Lecras
HF: Lynch Brown (Rest Mid)

Only problem I see... is that the ball will get out as quickly as it gets in. Thats why McKinley needs to lift his work-rate and pressure so that the ball doesnt leave the F50 so easily.

That all makes total sense except for Lynch. Agree Brown Forward/ Spangher in defence. Obviously Hunter is the first to go, Lynch is not a stable forward and it would take him getting back to his best for him to be retained. If we want a roaming tall forward i think Notte would be the way to go.

 

[Lucev23]

Really shits me how quickly this board forgets and turns on players.

McKinley hasnt been that bad this year and was ****ing great last year.

Whats Nicknats kick and shot at goal like?

 

[juddy_Like]

That all makes total sense except for Lynch. Agree Brown Forward/ Spangher in defence. Obviously Hunter is the first to go, Lynch is not a stable forward and it would take him getting back to his best for him to be retained. If we want a roaming tall forward i think Notte would be the way to go.

Well yeah. Notte is one of the better contested marks in the team so ideally you would want him roaming inside the F50.

Not sure if he's ready yet.


As for Lynchy.... at least he looks like he is trying. Which is more than we can say for others.

Really shits me how quickly this board forgets and turns on players.

McKinley hasnt been that bad this year and was ****ing great last year.

Whats Nicknats kick and shot at goal like?

Don't think many are bagging McKinley. Just think that in order to be a more complete player... he needs to add a bit of hardness to his game.

Nicknats set shot is a bit iffy. Sometimes it looks beautiful. Other times it looks ordinary. But at the going rate... he will be first picked.

 

[bwrussell]

Would it be worth perhaps trying Lynch at CHB for a few weeks (provided there is a matchup for him) and Moving Mitch Brown forward just to change things up a bit?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Would it be worth perhaps trying Lynch at CHB for a few weeks (provided there is a matchup for him) and Moving Mitch Brown forward just to change things up a bit?

Got nothing to lose, won't happen though. Not our style to make changes.

 

[Winky]

No what you say mate is true, but I just think he has been stuffed around to much and does not know whether he is Artha or Martha now. He needs to play in one spot and he has performed admirably in a forward line when at FF even though the delivery is poor and plan in there is poor.
He is still pretty young with good years ahead of him. I think we need to settle down some of our players, Kennedy at CHF. (Full stop) Lynch at FF. (Full Stop) as examples and leave them their long term until they just simply don't perform. Other than half a dozen of our players who play the same spot every week most swap and change to much. Look what it has done for Hurn this year. he is settled and playing good footy. Even the kids , maybe bring them in and say you have 6 weeks on the wing to see how what you have got, or rover, or wherever they are suited. I know most sides are flexible these days but the better sides and thats what we want to try and become have a large % of their players that know where they play.

You are spot on. I know that we will struggle no matter what we do as we have noone to carry the ball through the midfield except Kerr who gets tagged out of it. IT will make a difference however if we let the forward line settle and build some confidence.

This would also help the midfield develop.

We have to go back to the basics while the young players develop. Lynch is the best full forward option we have. Not many other clubs have better. Notte will be good and could slot in on a flank as he is a pretty smart footballer and you can swap when the occasion demands. Don't put Lynch on the ball as although he has played a couple of good games there he is lost most of the time.

Put Hunter back to half back where he plays his best football. Keep Cox rucking and rest him off field. Maybe try McNamara as a crumbing forward? Give the young guys some licence to be attacking rather than purely defensive.