Francis Jackson...the lost years

[T4P]

To maintain a list, you need to average at least 3 players per draft who play 50 games at least.
FJ has never been able to achieve that over any 2 consecutive years , which is the exact reason why we have needed to beef up our opposition analysis staff to get to where we are, their input in rising sides up the ladder gets harder as a side rises up the ladder as disgruntled players have less effect on better sides.
Although I am happy to err on the side of optimism , I struggle to see where FJ can seriously build our list.
If you take Blair Hartley's work out of our best 22, Chaplin, Morris, A.Edwards, I.Maric, Knights , Houli, Grigg ,we are still a bottom 2-3 side.
It is a area of great concern and it needs to be addressed.

Uhh, look at Hawthorn and Sydney, they have a fair few players in their best 22 from other sides....

 

[GetOverIt]

Part of the problem with this thread is people expecting instant results. OK for round 1 players. maybe for round 2. After that expaect to wait a few years. What we have seen is that he has picked guys with talent, but that haven't come on. Arnot looks OK, after 2 games. Griffiths has enormous talent, but has not go the footy smarts. Dea and others have shown a bit then not kept the standard. This is often the case with marginal guys. Some become reasonable AFL players, and that is all I expect of round 3 + guys. What I expect is that after 3 -5 years drafted players are either capable or gone - talls take a bit longer. FJ is tarting to build arecord - very good in the first round a bit iffy after that. But what we don;t know is whether in 2 years time a few of the guys edgign toward the firsts in the VFL will be accepted a good AFL players. This is not just semantics, it takes 5+ years to know how each draft year has worked out.

I hear good things about some VFL guys. But the team sucks. OK is that because Fj has drafted duds, or because they are young and the Coburg affiliation isn't working well? I have no idea. But there is real talent there, young FJ talent. the problem for me is whether they will make it. 50% drafting, 50% development.

I am waiting 2 more years to see. That's how long it takes. But I am a little bit frustrated that so many later draft guys aren't there or thereabouts. However, I accept that we will only know when they are mature.

There are cases like Batchelor that showed great talent and now seems to have lost it. That is not FJ. We saw the talent he brought in. that is development/the player. the drafting guy picks good players, then it is up to development and the player. Troy Taylor was a super talent, but a total F wit. that is why he went so late. overall I am not thinking FJ is god like, but he is seems OK. Whether ha is above average, which si what we want, time wil tell. If in 2 years we have 4 guys form later rrafts playing first regularly then well done. if not then poor job.

Giffiths never competed hard enough and never will...his talent is irrelevant.

We can't win the flag with this guy in charge, as he can't get picks beyond 15 right

 

[GetOverIt]

I get his point. He also explained why it stops at 2009. Plenty of clubs bomb the later picks.

That wasn;t his point at all..(whcih he explained). Wrong
He explained that with later post

 

[Wally Matera]

This is frightening. Whilst l politely disagree with GOI's view of Conca's pre-draft reputation (because we would get our money back on Conca now from WCE if we were willing to trade him), l cant argue at all with the OP and appreciate the analysis.

If, as is stated, that the only reason why we dont have more investment in our recruiting team is because of FJs stubborness, then Benny and Co need to restructure the reporting lines. Blair Hartley cant be relied upon year-on-year to keep the team afloat. There will be some years, that free-agency/trading wont fall our way. In fact, on inability to deliver at the drafting table could ultimately ruin our chances of keeping Blair - his ultimate success is winning premierships, someone will poach him from us if he doesnt look like we're gettign there.

 

[turtle27]

Giffiths never competed hard enough and never will...his talent is irrelevant.

We can't win the flag with this guy in charge, as he can't get picks beyond 15 right

That's a more interesting point than most people might give credit to. Out of interest GetOverIt, what has been the post #15 picks make up of the, say, last three premiers? Swans, Cats, Pies. Would be interesting to see how much the post pick #15 has to play in each club winning a flag.

 

[_RT_]

I really do love these 3 years down the track 20/20 hindsight review type threads. Especially when they pay no regard at all to the fact that some of those players that are being potted have had rather significant injuries. I mean where is the mention of Astbury having missed nearly 18 months with a serious knee injury, Griffiths having had both shoulders reconstructed since arriving at the club(never mind the surgeries before arriving), Dea has battled stress fractures of the feet/shins and Helbig who has also had to battle long term injury issues as well. Surely Francis in all his due dilligence should have realised that 4 of the kids he picked were going to be ravaged by these serious injuries before he called their names out.

So now before we hit the drafts this year I wonder if the OP of this thread can go out and pick 5-6 kids from this years draft pool who are likely to be picked outside the first round and who they believe will go on and become household names in 3-4 years time. If they are I'll be the first in line to pat you on the back, if they aren't I guess that will just prove that despite all the best intentions picking kids out of a draft pool and predicting what they will do in 3-4 years time is nothing more than a roll of the dice.

 

[GetOverIt]

I really do love these 3 years down the track 20/20 hindsight review type threads. Especially when they pay no regard at all to the fact that some of those players that are being potted have had rather significant injuries. I mean where is the mention of Astbury having missed nearly 18 months with a serious knee injury, Griffiths having had both shoulders reconstructed since arriving at the club(never mind the surgeries before arriving), Dea has battled stress fractures of the feet/shins and Helbig who has also had to battle long term injury issues as well. Surely Francis in all his due dilligence should have realised that 4 of the kids he picked were going to be ravaged by these serious injuries before he called their names out.

So now before we hit the drafts this year I wonder if the OP of this thread can go out and pick 5-6 kids from this years draft pool who are likely to be picked outside the first round and who they believe will go on and become household names in 3-4 years time. If they are I'll be the first in line to pat you on the back, if they aren't I guess that will just prove that despite all the best intentions picking kids out of a draft pool and predicting what they will do in 3-4 years time is nothing more than a roll of the dice.

If we don't judge our recruiting in hindsight, when would you suggest we should judge it?

The op isn't on 250k as full time recruiting manager-FJ is!

I repeat, Astbury was at Coburg for the preceeding 5 games before he got injured ie he wasn't getting a game. He had shown very little .

The Grifiths uinjuries is part of what I am talking about-he was known to be injury prone as a junior( as well as mashmellow soft). He presented as a gamble. Casino Jackson
He hasn't played a senior game since round one. He is non competitve and recruiter worth their salt could have seen this.

What is Bachelor's injury? Another gamble

So the only reason these duds are no good is injuries not Francis' choice? Please

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

This isn't short sighted in my part , we are talking about a guy who has been at the club for 8 years . 8 years where he has enjoyed the luxury of some very nice early draft picks .
Some argue that he was under resourced , well that isn't quite true .
I personally know of others that have left RFC to join other clubs within the some role and have received less money .
It not a role for egoistic people, as it leads to people making decisions to boost popularity and then shutting others out cover their tracks .
It's ends up with the person being considered to be arragont with their head up his arse and no idea .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

This isn't short sighted in my part , we are talking about a guy who has been at the club for 8 years . 8 years where he has enjoyed the luxury of some very nice early draft picks .
Some argue that he was under resourced , well that isn't quite true .
I personally know of others that have left RFC to join other clubs within the some role and have received less money .
It not a role for egoistic people, as it leads to people making decisions to boost popularity and then shutting others out cover their tracks .
It's ends up with the person being considered to be arragont with their head up his arse and no idea .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Uhh, look at Hawthorn and Sydney, they have a fair few players in their best 22 from other sides....

Lucky I mentioned that their job gets harder not impossible .
When was the last time you saw Hawthorn or Sydney pick 6 players in 3 years , from opposition clubs , that are clearly in their best 22 ?

 

[cormick]

If we don't judge our recruiting in hindsight, when would you suggest we should judge it?

The op isn't on 250k as full time recruiting manager-FJ is!

I repeat, Astbury was at Coburg for the preceeding 5 games before he got injured ie he wasn't getting a game. He had shown very little .

The Grifiths uinjuries is part of what I am talking about-he was known to be injury prone as a junior( as well as mashmellow soft). He presented as a gamble. Casino Jackson
He hasn't played a senior game since round one. He is non competitve and recruiter worth their salt could have seen this.

What is Bachelor's injury? Another gamble

So the only reason these duds are no good is injuries not Francis' choice? Please

So he's on a Full Time wage but you're wanting him to watch less than 12 hours of football each week because seeing less games will be beneficial to our recruiters...

Cotchin was injured at the draft camp and was severely hampered for his first preseason. Perhaps "Casino", or whoever was our recruiting head at the time, should have gone for the far safer pick with no injury risk of Cale Morton...? Francis Jackson won't have been the one to have judged whether Griffiths was a considerable injury risk, that's what we have medical staff for.

 

[_RT_]

If we don't judge our recruiting in hindsight, when would you suggest we should judge it?

The op isn't on 250k as full time recruiting manager-FJ is!

I repeat, Astbury was at Coburg for the preceeding 5 games before he got injured ie he wasn't getting a game. He had shown very little .

The Grifiths uinjuries is part of what I am talking about-he was known to be injury prone as a junior( as well as mashmellow soft). He presented as a gamble. Casino Jackson
He hasn't played a senior game since round one. He is non competitve and recruiter worth their salt could have seen this.

What is Bachelor's injury? Another gamble

So the only reason these duds are no good is injuries not Francis' choice? Please

Well if you're going to judge it then take everything into account, not just cherry pick stuff which makes your POV look good.

For example you talk about Astbury not showing anything before getting hurt, how then do you explain him playing 21 of 32 games prior to ruining his knee? You don't do that if you weren't showing something. It would be great if he can get himself back into the side and get back to the promise that he showed in those early games.

As for Griffiths, played 5 games in his first season before doing his shoulder requiring the first reco, comes back the second year gets back into the side then does a shoulder again requiring another reco. 3rd season finally starts to get some consistent footy only to get another injury that ended his season early. Then spends the last preseason learning how to play as a a KPD, only to be exposed in the first game. Since then he has been shuffled all over the place at Coburg often finding himself playing forward back and ruck in a quarter.

For mine Astbury and Griffiths are our versions of Hansen from the Roos, who was a highly rated kid who took a few years to realise that he can play at this level. Given both are yet to turn 23 there is still time before we start writing them off.

 

[Rayzorwire]

IIRC it has been written that Schulz was the one player, that left at the start of Dimma's tenure, that he wanted.

'Wanted' him on what terms?

'Can't guarantee you a game and here's a lousy deal?'

Port made him an offer we refused to get near, therefore we asked nothing for him and he moved clubs.

You're free to maintain that Schulz 'wouldn't stick around because he disliked the bloke from two coaching tenures ago' if you prefer (as you no doubt will!).

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

'Wanted' him on what terms?

'Can't guarantee you a game and here's a lousy deal?'

Port made him an offer we refused to get near, therefore we asked nothing for him and he moved clubs.

You're free to maintain that Schulz 'wouldn't stick around because he disliked the bloke from two coaching tenures ago' if you prefer (as you no doubt will!).

2 tenures ,FFS , Jade Rawlings was an interim coach .
He left as soon as he could after Wallace had promised him the world and failed to deliver , unfortunately Schulz didn't consider any offer from the club such was his anger toward the club .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

So he's on a Full Time wage but you're wanting him to watch less than 12 hours of football each week because seeing less games will be beneficial to our recruiters...

Cotchin was injured at the draft camp and was severely hampered for his first preseason. Perhaps "Casino", or whoever was our recruiting head at the time, should have gone for the far safer pick with no injury risk of Cale Morton...? Francis Jackson won't have been the one to have judged whether Griffiths was a considerable injury risk, that's what we have medical staff for.

Cotchin had trained with the club often well before the draft and his injury was well known as a growth related injury .

 

[Rayzorwire]

2 tenures ,FFS , Jade Rawlings was an interim coach .

Campbell was the constant.

...unfortunately Schulz didn't consider any offer from the club such was his anger toward the club .

His anger towards Wallace prevented him from sticking with ALL the other club people, all of his teammates etc.

And we matched Port's offer or got near it? Promised him game time?

You're playing out a fantasy history.

 

[GetOverIt]

Well if you're going to judge it then take everything into account, not just cherry pick stuff which makes your POV look good.

For example you talk about Astbury not showing anything before getting hurt, how then do you explain him playing 21 of 32 games prior to ruining his knee? You don't do that if you weren't showing something. It would be great if he can get himself back into the side and get back to the promise that he showed in those early games.

As for Griffiths, played 5 games in his first season before doing his shoulder requiring the first reco, comes back the second year gets back into the side then does a shoulder again requiring another reco. 3rd season finally starts to get some consistent footy only to get another injury that ended his season early. Then spends the last preseason learning how to play as a a KPD, only to be exposed in the first game. Since then he has been shuffled all over the place at Coburg often finding himself playing forward back and ruck in a quarter.

For mine Astbury and Griffiths are our versions of Hansen from the Roos, who was a highly rated kid who took a few years to realise that he can play at this level. Given both are yet to turn 23 there is still time before we start writing them off.

Would that have been when we were 0-9? he was getting a game, like this week, becasue of his size.
Would that have been when Nason was gettgin a game?
There are less big blokes.
Astbury will never make it-never

Griffiths isn't going to get any braver . He is Cleve Hughes revisited
So according to you, these were the right picks who have just been struck down...right

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Campbell was the constant.



His anger towards Wallace prevented him from sticking with ALL the other club people, all of his teammates etc.

And we matched Port's offer or got near it? Promised him game time?

You're playing out a fantasy history.

Promising game time and you accuse others of fantasy's .

 

[_RT_]

Would that have been when we were 0-9? he was getting a game, like this week, becasue of his size.
Would that have been when Nason was gettgin a game?
There are less big blokes.
Astbury will never make it-never

Griffiths isn't going to get any braver . He is Cleve Hughes revisited
So according to you, these were the right picks who have just been struck down...right

You're taking the piss if you're suggesting that those 21 games were only because Astbury was big. The fact is at that stage Astbury was getting games because he was earning them with good performances every week. As for Griffiths not getting any braver, from memory he has had concussion 4-5 times this year which would suggest that he isn't exactly shirking the contest as you suggest he does.

As for being the right selections, at the time I thought they were given that we needed talls. Right now I still believe that they are as you don't judge talls early given most of the time they are still growing into the bodies in the first 5 years. If neither have shown anything by the end of next season then you'd have to think about perhaps moving them on.

 

[Bojangles17]

Wonder why we had to play Ricky “Out on the full” Pettard on White last week?

Bachelor, Griffiths and Astbury ( could he get any slower?).....this is what Francis has served up to us as options as a third tall. Poor old Dimma has been left with no diamonds in the rough.

Firstly, let’s not confuse it with the fine job Blair Hartley has done with the trading as distinct from the recruiting.

The art of recruiting in this day of extensive media coverage of the TAC, is not getting your top 15 right but getting picks beyond that right. I am sick of hearing what a good job Casino Jackson has done by getting Martin and Elllis etc right..please..my wife could get those right . Whenever any real judgement has been required, Casino Jackson has been found sorely lacking. I will argue that there is only one pick beyond 15 since 2009 that has established themselves as a regular capable AFL player (excluding last year where it is too early to call) and that is Dylan Grimes. Hardwick is left now with third and fourth year players who are no good. Francis simply hasn’t delivered the “diamond in the rough” for the coach


Francis is hell bent on doing things his way and differently to the other power clubs. He has refused more staff and admitted on a club website interview with richo last year that he has his recruiters regularly watch 6 games per weekend (can you believe that?) and nationally we have about 40% of the staff of a Hawthorn or Collingwood – 11 as opposed to 25/27. Francis would rather have input from less people who individually watch an extraordinary amount of games per weekend. Most other clubs have recruiters watch a maximum of two/three per weekend.

Ok, so let’s look at how his high risk model has worked

Remember, I am working under the assumption that the real skill in recruiting is finding players beyond pick 15.
2009
No. 19 Benjamin Griffiths (Eastern Ranges, 18, 198cm, 99kg)
No. 35 David Asbury (North Ballarat, 18, 193cm, 79kg)
No. 44 Matthew Dea (North Ballarat, 18, 186cm, 83kg)
No. 51 Troy Taylor (NT Thunder, 18, 189cm, 77kg)
No. 67 Jeromey Webberley (Clarence, 21
No. 71 Ben Nason (Central District, 20, 179cm, 72kg)

Mmm, well how did he go there? Any gambles that may have earned him the nickname Casino Jackson? Say, a guy who had been in jail (Taylor)? Or a guy who had his shoulder reconstructed before the draft (Griffiths)? He bragged how he “hid behind trees” to watch Mat Dea playing school footy. There was no need to hide Francis. Nobody else had any interest in him! Fair to say the Webberley and Nason experiment was a disaster. Not one of those players, now in their fourth year have established themselves as a regular AFL player.

We were told that Griffiths will come good when he is injury free...well that hasn’t happened. He was well known to be non competitive as a junior and nothing has changed. He is the modern day Cleve Hughes (without the 6 goal game) and what an indictment on Griffiths that they choose Pettard to play tall defence in front of him. An indictment.
Who made the decision to give Astbury no 12? My son has a poster in his room called “Young Guns” which has Cotchin, Delidio, Martin and wait for it...Astbury in the picture. Young gun?
Gambles- Taylor(jail), Dea, Griffths

So who could Casino have chosen? Look away now.....
Pick 20 Nathan Fyfe-Fremantle , Pick 24 Jake Carlisle-Essendon, Pick 25 Mitch Duncan-Geelong, Pick 29 Jack Gunston- Adelaide Pick 38 Sam Reid-Sydney, Pick 40 Allen Christensen -Geelong, Pick 62 Ben Sinclair Collingwood..

But no..we got Griffiths, Dea and Astbury instead of Fyfe, Duncan and Reid. Well done Casino!

2010
30. JAKE BATCHELOR
47. BRADLEY HELBIG
51. DEAN MACDONALD.
63. TOM DERICKX
Well, arguably his finest work here. Again, not one has established themselves as a regular senior player. Macdonald left the club for personal reasons and has well known issues before he was drafted-Gamble.
Did anyone see Derickx play against gold coast last year? IT could the worst game ever played by an AFL “footballer”. Another player plucked from obscurity and it had other clubs recruiters rushing for their notes to see who this guy was?

Please, don’t start me on Jake” can’t win a contest” Bachelor. Refuses to bend over, dribbles kicks along the ground and is just far too easily beaten in contests . Hawthorn didn’t have him in their top 70, so there was no need for Casino to rush and take him at 30. Other clubs simply isolate him and kick it to his man(refer Dawes in the first quarter against Melbourne)
Helbig? You be the judge. How’s that one going Francis?

So, zero from four here for Jackson and cumulative, zero from 10 over two years.
So, who could we have had?
Pick 33, Jeremy Howe-Melbourne,Pick 40 Luke Parker-Sydney, Pick 45 Alex Fasolo –Collingwood, Pick 57 Alex Johnson -Sydney Pick 76 Paul Seedsman-Collingwood, Pick 75 Aaron Sippos-St Kilda
mmm. well a couple of premiership players there, and our picks were no good.

2011
26-Todd Elton
55-Matthw Arnott
I know it is early doors but the drafting of Arnott raised significant eyebrows at Oakleigh chargers and amongst many recruiters. There was zero interest from anyone else and I suppose he competes well but is treacle slow.

Francis.....the lost years

What a stupid post, in light of draft restrictions due to GC ad gws coming in we have done an outstanding job in improving our list at a pace well ahead of others. Who is head of recruiting again?

 

[T4P]

Lucky I mentioned that their job gets harder not impossible .
When was the last time you saw Hawthorn or Sydney pick 6 players in 3 years , from opposition clubs , that are clearly in their best 22 ?

Aaron Edwards, Chris Knights aren't 'clearly' in our best 22, both having decent stints in the VFL this year. Steven Morris can't have been picked due to our 'opposition analyst' sector - he never played for another club, and wasn't ever really on GWS' list!
That makes it three players in three years.
Stop bull-hitting with poorly-made stats to back your poorly-based argument.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

I think the OP makes a fair assessment.

Drafting hasn't gotten us competitive, it's been our trading/free agency use that's gotten us back up the table.

Nailing these first rounders has been important but there's no doubt we need to ramp up our recruitment staff to make certain we're nailing those 2nd, 3rd round picks.

 

[TIGER DAVE]

Wonder why we had to play Ricky “Out on the full” Pettard on White last week?

Bachelor, Griffiths and Astbury ( could he get any slower?).....this is what Francis has served up to us as options as a third tall. Poor old Dimma has been left with no diamonds in the rough.

Firstly, let’s not confuse it with the fine job Blair Hartley has done with the trading as distinct from the recruiting.

The art of recruiting in this day of extensive media coverage of the TAC, is not getting your top 15 right but getting picks beyond that right. I am sick of hearing what a good job Casino Jackson has done by getting Martin and Elllis etc right..please..my wife could get those right . Whenever any real judgement has been required, Casino Jackson has been found sorely lacking. I will argue that there is only one pick beyond 15 since 2009 that has established themselves as a regular capable AFL player (excluding last year where it is too early to call) and that is Dylan Grimes. Hardwick is left now with third and fourth year players who are no good. Francis simply hasn’t delivered the “diamond in the rough” for the coach


Francis is hell bent on doing things his way and differently to the other power clubs. He has refused more staff and admitted on a club website interview with richo last year that he has his recruiters regularly watch 6 games per weekend (can you believe that?) and nationally we have about 40% of the staff of a Hawthorn or Collingwood – 11 as opposed to 25/27. Francis would rather have input from less people who individually watch an extraordinary amount of games per weekend. Most other clubs have recruiters watch a maximum of two/three per weekend.

Ok, so let’s look at how his high risk model has worked

Remember, I am working under the assumption that the real skill in recruiting is finding players beyond pick 15.
2009
No. 19 Benjamin Griffiths (Eastern Ranges, 18, 198cm, 99kg)
No. 35 David Asbury (North Ballarat, 18, 193cm, 79kg)
No. 44 Matthew Dea (North Ballarat, 18, 186cm, 83kg)
No. 51 Troy Taylor (NT Thunder, 18, 189cm, 77kg)
No. 67 Jeromey Webberley (Clarence, 21
No. 71 Ben Nason (Central District, 20, 179cm, 72kg)

Mmm, well how did he go there? Any gambles that may have earned him the nickname Casino Jackson? Say, a guy who had been in jail (Taylor)? Or a guy who had his shoulder reconstructed before the draft (Griffiths)? He bragged how he “hid behind trees” to watch Mat Dea playing school footy. There was no need to hide Francis. Nobody else had any interest in him! Fair to say the Webberley and Nason experiment was a disaster. Not one of those players, now in their fourth year have established themselves as a regular AFL player.

We were told that Griffiths will come good when he is injury free...well that hasn’t happened. He was well known to be non competitive as a junior and nothing has changed. He is the modern day Cleve Hughes (without the 6 goal game) and what an indictment on Griffiths that they choose Pettard to play tall defence in front of him. An indictment.
Who made the decision to give Astbury no 12? My son has a poster in his room called “Young Guns” which has Cotchin, Delidio, Martin and wait for it...Astbury in the picture. Young gun?
Gambles- Taylor(jail), Dea, Griffths

So who could Casino have chosen? Look away now.....
Pick 20 Nathan Fyfe-Fremantle , Pick 24 Jake Carlisle-Essendon, Pick 25 Mitch Duncan-Geelong, Pick 29 Jack Gunston- Adelaide Pick 38 Sam Reid-Sydney, Pick 40 Allen Christensen -Geelong, Pick 62 Ben Sinclair Collingwood..

But no..we got Griffiths, Dea and Astbury instead of Fyfe, Duncan and Reid. Well done Casino!

2010
30. JAKE BATCHELOR
47. BRADLEY HELBIG
51. DEAN MACDONALD.
63. TOM DERICKX
Well, arguably his finest work here. Again, not one has established themselves as a regular senior player. Macdonald left the club for personal reasons and has well known issues before he was drafted-Gamble.
Did anyone see Derickx play against gold coast last year? IT could the worst game ever played by an AFL “footballer”. Another player plucked from obscurity and it had other clubs recruiters rushing for their notes to see who this guy was?

Please, don’t start me on Jake” can’t win a contest” Bachelor. Refuses to bend over, dribbles kicks along the ground and is just far too easily beaten in contests . Hawthorn didn’t have him in their top 70, so there was no need for Casino to rush and take him at 30. Other clubs simply isolate him and kick it to his man(refer Dawes in the first quarter against Melbourne)
Helbig? You be the judge. How’s that one going Francis?

So, zero from four here for Jackson and cumulative, zero from 10 over two years.
So, who could we have had?
Pick 33, Jeremy Howe-Melbourne,Pick 40 Luke Parker-Sydney, Pick 45 Alex Fasolo –Collingwood, Pick 57 Alex Johnson -Sydney Pick 76 Paul Seedsman-Collingwood, Pick 75 Aaron Sippos-St Kilda
mmm. well a couple of premiership players there, and our picks were no good.

2011
26-Todd Elton
55-Matthw Arnott
I know it is early doors but the drafting of Arnott raised significant eyebrows at Oakleigh chargers and amongst many recruiters. There was zero interest from anyone else and I suppose he competes well but is treacle slow.

Francis.....the lost years


[/quote

its a footy forum so you have the right to criticize who ever you want...but in my opinion you have some kind of agenda against FJ....

what disappointing to me is how snide your remarks are eg ricky on the full, cant win a contest batchelor, arnot treacle slow, casino Jackson etc

all these guys are busting their ass to make it and if their ability is not good enough then so be it. but for you to belittle then is not on....you can make you point without being a smarta**

I encourage all supporters to voice opinions , concerns praise etc...but in a manner that is constructive. not full of venom and vitriol

can I ask, since you seem to insinuate that you know all about the subject of who we should have picked, have you spoken to anyone at RFC to voice your concerns? did you put up the names of fyfe,carlile etc to the club before they were picked....not 3 years after when they become good players

for me the jury is out on FJ......I hope BG and the RFC reviews all positions at the club annually....and if in his and the RFC opinion FJ has failed then give him the a**... but if they keep him on whos fault is bad recruting...FJ for ****ing some pick up or the RFC for keeping him employed?

 

[GetOverIt]

yes i have.
I also made the point that our model is vastly different to Hawthorn and collingwood ...dean macdonald...dear oh dear

 

[Rayzorwire]

Jingle bells, jingle bells...