Fraser time to go

[dswan]

Need i say he has no spot in the team. He does bugger all and is pushed around like a rag doll. He limps around getting a few cheap kicks and is man handled by other big men. He is a bad ruckman and shocking forward. Time to go Fraser. God only knows why Mick gives him a game

 

[Michael_knoth]

doing better then jolly this year slack

 

[The Royal Sampler]

You took your time before posting this one; normally they come out in the hour after the game, and usually a lost game.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I prefer L Brown as 2nd ruck this week, largely for the aggression he is capable of applying to the opposition. Dawes should also play. Because of the changed forward structure where Anthony is not an undersized FF and Cloke not the only specialist big forward, I'd give these guys another opportunity to get their acts together.

Fraser needs to rethink his game in the VFL and Jolly to produce the goods against a less aggressive St Kilda ruck combination. I reserve judgement on Fraser's long term future until he has had a chance to run in to some form.

 

[Ron]

Fraser was pretty handy against the Dogs, then he plays badly against the Dees (a game wehere about 18 of 22 had shockers) and he should be dumped?

I'd give him at least a few more weeks.

 

[Pie eyed]

I was trying to work out WTF the OP was on about then realised Dswan is the only poster on my ignore list.

Now I remember why......

Back to the abyss with you boyo.....

 

[KissStephanie]

God only knows why Mick gives him a game

Well let's see what think the changes will be for next weekend then...

Out: Reid Johnson

In: Sinclair Brown

Oh dear.

 

[OniAu]

If people are satisifed with frasers efforts in the last few years , injuries aside, then you guys are clearly an easy bunch to satisfy. As much as the OP comes across as arrogant and blunt, he has a point.

Wood should be getting games unless fraser is starring, id hate to say it , but if wood gets less than ten games i can see him leaving this year or the next (unsure of his contract situation) for eitheir adelaide or the new teams entering the comp , i couldnt blame him if he did. He showed enough when fraser was out a few times last year that he could handle himself quite well.

I understand wood has had injuries recently , as soon as he is 100% he should be back in though over fraser.

No use sugar coating it that fraser has done something for the club in the last few years , theres only so long you can hang onto those seasons that he starred in , in 02 03 when he was carrying the load solely. If thats a basis for selection then Corey Mckernan and Whitnall would be still playing , ok maybe not mckernan hah. But i can see fraser heading down the same road as these guys, his best isnt shown enough anymore, its no use overlooking that.

 

[TradeDraft]

If people are satisifed with frasers efforts in the last few years , injuries aside, then you guys are clearly an easy bunch to satisfy. As much as the OP comes across as arrogant and blunt, he has a point.

Wood should be getting games unless fraser is starring, id hate to say it , but if wood gets less than ten games i can see him leaving this year or the next (unsure of his contract situation) for eitheir adelaide or the new teams entering the comp , i couldnt blame him if he did. He showed enough when fraser was out a few times last year that he could handle himself quite well.

I understand wood has had injuries recently , as soon as he is 100% he should be back in though over fraser.

No use sugar coating it that fraser has done something for the club in the last few years , theres only so long you can hang onto those seasons that he starred in , in 02 03 when he was carrying the load solely. If thats a basis for selection then Corey Mckernan and Whitnall would be still playing , ok maybe not mckernan hah. But i can see fraser heading down the same road as these guys, his best isnt shown enough anymore, its no use overlooking that.

Well is Injured at the Moment so he can't Play.

I agree Wood should play as the 2nd Ruck Ahead of Fraser as I see him getting Worse and Worse and I think he could be Traded at season end

 

[HFF]

Just wow to this thread.

How many times do we need to state that Josh is the perfect player compliment Jolly?

In fact, Josh has performed better than Jolly thus far.

Josh resting forward is a far better option than Leroy Brown too as he is far more reliable kicking for goal.

It's a new combo/partnership and it will take some time.

I have no doubt Josh will hit some very good form and ditto Jolly.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Do you just see the one or two mistakes every footballer makes and assume its all Josh ever does.

I think like most armchair critics you see the negatives because that is all you want to see.
Your mind was probably made up several years ago and you would see giving Josh credit for his footy as an indication that you are wrong about him, so you blindly follow the few, and ramble on about nothing in particular as justification of your incorrect position

Changes should be made this week against St Kilda, and if Dawes is to come in, Fraser should be the one to make way for him. We then have the opportunity to see how Cloke, Antony and Dawes function in the new forwaed set up, playing the big guys in the key positions, L Brown can do the 2nd ruck duties.

Fraser is too easily pushed aside in marking contests. At the very least, he needs to go back and find some form. The advantage Josh gave us in the past was that he got lots of possessions around the ground, which he has not done so far this year. I am not a Fraser hater. Rather, I simply see him as the one who should be dropped this week to enable Reid to stay in the side and Dawes to come into the team.

 

[smiddaz123]

Tantrums aside, Fraser does definitely lack body strength and overhead ability for a guy his size.

In ruck contests, he is ineffectual because he lacks the ability to outbody an opponent, and this weakness is now highlighted because he doesn't have the leap or athleticism he once did. He really has no way to beat genuine ruckmen anymore.

It's a pity that his body is ruined, because he was a very, very talented player. Could've been a top 50 player in the AFL, but he never got there. I don't believe it's Fraser's fault either, he's worked as hard as he can. Shouldering an entire ruck division has ruined him though.

Anyone who thinks Fraser is adequate in one on one contests is simply delusion and/or biased.

These days, he's a flanker in a 200cm body.

 

[rose jam]

I think Leigh Brown would be the one to go first, even MM would have to concede that. There seems to me to be no reason why Fraser can't play around the ground with Jolly in the ruck as well.

I remember the back end of 2002 when Rocca was taking centre bounces and then moving into the forward line with Fraser then doing the around the ground work. Seemed to work beautifully. It gave Rocca separation from his opponent and eased some of the pressure off Fraser's body. I still don't wonder whether that system can still occassionally be used today with the Jolly/Fraser combo.

 

[smiddaz123]

Just wow to this thread.

His first two performances have warranted it.

How many times do we need to state that Josh is the perfect player compliment Jolly?

State it all you want, it doesn't make it true. Some of the reasoning as to why Fraser is apparently the perfect compliment for Jolly makes me think some people think it's 2003.

Josh resting forward is a far better option than Leroy Brown too as he is far more reliable kicking for goal.

Give me Brown any day. Brown gets more chances than Josh, and applies far more physical pressure.

In terms of reliability, did you see Fraser completely ignore a handpass to a free team mate on his own about 20 metres from goal to take a shot at goal under pressure to kick a behind?

There really is no use being so reliable in front of goal if you barely get the chances either.

It's a new combo/partnership and it will take some time.

Ridiculous excuse imo. A new combo/partnership has what effect on Fraser's ability to perform when he's in the ruck? The fact he has a new rucking partner means nothing when he's going up against the opposition ruckman.

I remember the back end of 2002 when Rocca was taking centre bounces and then moving into the forward line with Fraser then doing the around the ground work. Seemed to work beautifully. It gave Rocca separation from his opponent and eased some of the pressure off Fraser's body. I still don't wonder whether that system can still occassionally be used today with the Jolly/Fraser combo.

That was almost a decade ago. Fraser was a completely different footballer then.

 

[TradeDraft]

Fraser's Biggest problem is his Body is Stuffed

 

[OniAu]

Fraser's Biggest problem is his Body is Stuffed

his supporters and doubters understand his body has copped it in his career, some people need to stop using it as excuse for him to have automatic inclusion.

Id be happy to see him turn it around and have a ripper season , what ive seen so far though he isnt doing anything outstanding to justify keeping wood out of the team when wood is finaly fit. Times running short for him, of anyone on our list he is probably the one guy id love to see get a flag (sounds like a weird comment , but id just hate for him to retire and we win a flag afterwards) , but you cant carry people to get flags

 

[Bluey64]

No doubt Frazer will be rewarded with his pathetic game last week by being gifted another week in the one's--having watched him closely he dosn't get out of a trot and cannot jump at all -the sooner Wood comes in the better and he deserves to be given the same game time as Frazier has had.

 

[JOELY]

the sooner Wood comes in the better and he deserves to be given the same game time as Frazier has had.

That i'd like to see!

 

[Michael_knoth]

i dont see how you people rag on fraser so much. hes a great player. no he wasnt a great ruckman. but he was a good ruck rover. i think his best position is on the half forward flank roaming. you will see. he'll have a stellar game where he kicks 4 or 5 and everyone will be worshiping him. its round 2 people. youd think it was round 10 and we were 2-8

 

[Thommo 42]

Ridiculous excuse imo. A new combo/partnership has what effect on Fraser's ability to perform when he's in the ruck? The fact he has a new rucking partner means nothing when he's going up against the opposition ruckman.
.

Serious question?

His new rucking partner will have actually done some ruckwork, for an extended period and put some physical pressure on, instead of the 'partners' he has had in the past. This means Josh will not be rucking solo against a tag team combo and will be a bit fresher when he goes forward.

Unfortunately for Josh, his new partner has put in 2 shockers so far, thank god we haven't been dumb enough to start a thread saying he should be dropped!

Pretty sure he took a contested mark inside the 50 on the weekend and slotted the goal? There is no doubt Fraser has the ability to be an exceptional option forward and as a backup ruck, it remains to be seen whether his body is up to it, but the jury is still out and you can't pass judgement on 2 games, otherwise Jolly and Ball would be in the magoos next week

 

[Michael_knoth]

anyone remember the round 8? coll v nth melb 2008 game. we lost due to a dirty as bounce. fraser kicked 4 playing as a ruckman roaming half forward flanker.... thats what were hoping for off him

 

[piesalltheway]

Why are we happy to bash Fraser for his bad games and call for his head, but other posters want to give Jolly and Ball more time. As others have already said - Fraser is performing better then Jolly, therefore Jolly should be the one dropped!

IMO they all need time to find there place in the team. Fraser is no longer the number 1 ruck and now has to find a place in the forward line which he will be able to do if he is given time.

Lets wait a couple of weeks, before we trade half the side away - maybe after we have a couple of losses we can get rid of the dead wood at the club (like Cloke, Tooves, Jack, Ried and the usual whipping boys) and call for MM to go too. (for those a little slow this is sarcasm).

 

[smiddaz123]

Serious question?

His new rucking partner will have actually done some ruckwork, for an extended period and put some physical pressure on, instead of the 'partners' he has had in the past. This means Josh will not be rucking solo against a tag team combo and will be a bit fresher when he goes forward.

Right, but this doesn't mean Josh can suddenly jump. The guy cannot jump anymore, whether or not a partner is rucking with him. Fraser lacking physical strength or not being able to jump has nothing to do with fatigue, the guy is just physically weak for a ruckman, and is just unable to jump.

And also, the above description of the benefit of a partner for Josh is not something that requires gelling as a partnership is it?

Pretty sure he took a contested mark inside the 50 on the weekend and slotted the goal? There is no doubt Fraser has the ability to be an exceptional option forward and as a backup ruck, it remains to be seen whether his body is up to it, but the jury is still out and you can't pass judgement on 2 games, otherwise Jolly and Ball would be in the magoos next week

For every contested mark Fraser takes, he would have been outmuscled in other contests 10+ times. I'm not saying he will never, ever take a grab or kick a goal up forward. What I'm saying is that it won't happen enough for him to be effective up there. And passing judgment on two games? It's more like I'm passing judgment on two years. He's continuing his poor, it's not out of the blue.

 

[the_fresh]

Fraser is a tall wingman, when Wood comes back you'll see Fraser play on the wing or at half forward.

 

[Bluey64]

When Wood comes back Frazer will be in the maggoo's but he will probably be needing a rest not like others that go back to the vfl for game time. A wingman since when!! can he run - you need speed to play on the wing I would have thought and why would you be playing three ruckman when Woody's come back!!!