Review Fremantle vs Sydney QF

[pavsbootlace]

Umm what exactly did you think Clarkson was going to say? What he knows is that the Hawks can play much better.

Yes, they were poor. That is my second point. Sydney were intense and Hawthorn were well below their best which puts the two games into perspective.

Longmire comments were true.. Look at how many outs they had, played with 1 less rotation thanks to Reids injury.

They had 4 significant outs, we had 2. They still played much better than the Hawks.

Whether you like it or not that post was flawed and its bit more than putting stats out with no context.

What was flawed about it. My first point was that we didn't make a lot of skill errors. Do have any evidence to counter that?

Also quite laughable how you think Hawks didn't turn up.

I think it's quite laughable that you think they did "turn up", yet you also agree that they were "well below their best".

You know why they played an injured Smith and Gunston because they were desperate to win.

Same reason we played an injured Fyfe. What's your point here? Were these two injuries one of the reasons they were well below their best? Probably just confirms my point that the Hawks were not the fierce competitor we know they can be.

With Priddis out, what the Eagles accomplished is astounding.

It was a good win for a young side. I'd be more glowing if the Hawks had have been at their best. The Eagles brought great effort regardless of personel, same as Sydney.

 

[salim malik]

So, I'm hearing a bit on this board and elsewhere about how the mob up the road are in hot form, but Freo aren't looking so great. What I find interesting is how people are saying we apply great effort, but our basic skill errors are letting us down. I simply don't think that was true compared to West Coast on the weekend. Please consider the following stats from the weekend:

WCE Clangers (vs Hawthorn) = 50
Freo Clangers (Vs Sydney) = 41

Number of WCE players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 5
Number of Freo players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 1

Number of WCE players with 80 or above DE% = 4
Number of Freo players with 80 or above DE% = 7

WCE Median DE% = 68.7%
Freo Median DE% = 76%


It's a controversial opinion, but I actually think we used the ball really well on the weekend, better than West Coast. The difference was we faced a much tougher opposition who brought a lot more pressure than West Coast's opponent. Consider this:

Clarkson's comments after the game "We were pretty bad".

Longmire's comments after the game "I thought our effort was outstanding. I was really pleased how we were able to fight on and play the sort of footy that we were able to play today. It was a gutsy effort"

I don't think West Coast were tested on the weekend. Freo were.





Here's one more comparison:

Sydney clangers = 51
Hawthorn Clangers = 57




Goodnight

Love your work but these stats that tell the real story will mean nothing to the footy illiterate who inhabit this board.

 

[salim malik]

I'll give you the individual analysis again. From two of the best in the business.

Clarkson's comments after the game "We were pretty bad".

Longmire's comments after the game "I thought our effort was outstanding. I was really pleased how we were able to fight on and play the sort of footy that we were able to play today. It was a gutsy effort"




I didn't watch the whole game. But what I saw was a listless Hawthorn side getting pumped by a slick Eagles side. Not a finals-like struggle.




I think you mean, "every time we play the Hawks, AT THE MCG OR IN TASSIE". We've only played them once in Perth in the last 5 years... and we won.

http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=6823&Code=a49a540f2263c8a41d5311884a76c801

He is an Eagle lover and Freo hater.He is not worth worrying about.

 

[StingBitten]

Negatives:

- Griffin's definitely our second ruck; Clarke worked harder than his last game but is still so soft at the contest. Griffin definitely adds more forward pressure and scoring power.

- It seems that every time Fyfe plays Barlow's input drops remarkably. I was at the game and couldn't tell if Barlow was forced to play out of position again? I understand that everyone gets less of the ball when Fyfe's in the team but something is seriously amiss at the moment. Barlow plays a blinder last week and dominates with 35 disposals and this week drops to literally half that. Suban's just not a midfielder and not sure why that experiment is still being enforced. Fyfe's still not %100 and it's frustrating to see Sandi tap it to him when he's being tagged down at every contest when we have other players free - felt at times like 2011 when Sandi won every tapout and never found a target once.

- Our fringe players are costing us; Mayne, Suban, Mzungu, and Clarke. Their roles are so much more important than many people think and they're just not delivering.

- Very frustrating to see lessons haven't been learned in regards to Pav being triple teamed at every contest and no second tall to kick to. At least RTB acknowledged Taberner not in the side as a huge mistake; if the weather was going to be vicious we could have subbed him at half time.
Positives:

- De Boer and Sheridan really stepping up to the plate. When Walters and Ballas played up the field only to see that empty forward half De Boer came flying out of no where on a few occasions to win the ball when it wasn't even his job to do so. Sheridan played like someone who really wants to be a part of our finals campaign.

- All the other positives mentioned re Ballas, Walters, Hill, Spurr etc

I really believe having Taberner/A. Pearce has a snowball effect on our entire team structure and we need(ed) one of them back in ASAP. We have got to sort our midfield and half-back/half-forward woes - firstly probably by winning the clearances that we should be winning when we've got the best ruckman in the league and some of the best midfielders.

 

[Drapatch]

Looking at our foot skills I'm almost certain we don't have a choice in the way we play...lock down is the way we survive.

We just butcher the ball going forward. Last quarter Ballantyne must've been missed 5 times in the last quarter when he had his man beaten cold. So damn frustrating

Your being very kind to ballantyne, he had a great first half but watching the replay there were 4-5 missed amrks that went through his hands or he dropped bringing the ball down. Some poor skills in marking the ball across the board. Not to mention Zac clarke not even attempting to contest, a broomstick would have fought harder.

Tabs or pearce in for clarke plzzz if griffen does not get up.

 

[Lach72]

Your being very kind to ballantyne, he had a great first half but watching the replay there were 4-5 missed amrks that went through his hands or he dropped bringing the ball down. Some poor skills in marking the ball across the board. Not to mention Zac clarke not even attempting to contest, a broomstick would have fought harder.

Tabs or pearce in for clarke plzzz if griffen does not get up.

Not really...i was sitting right above him for most of them...the kicking was shit house

 

[Mudd]

He is an Eagle lover and Freo hater.He is not worth worrying about.

play the ball not the man, if you think he's wrong argue his opinions instead of hurling insults.

 

[not_working]

No it isn't, and no they aren't.

West Coast are currently outright favourites at $2.75. Fremantle at $3.50 are only marginally ahead of Hawthorn at $3.75. By any measure, West Coast are premiership favourites now and still will be until the bouncedown on grand final day unless they lose the prelim.

A bit of a simplification: odds at the moment reflect both form AND remaining finals schedule. With Sydney at $13.00, the the main reason for WC good odds is that people do not believe that they will loose their home prelim. Similarly, Hawks odds will improve if they beat Adelaide (and they would be favourite again if they also beat us). Our odds are lower, because our prelim is against a team that is rated higher than WC's.

That said, I don't doubt that if (when) we head into a derby GF, WC will probably have better odds than Freo (they currently do). But this is also caused by betting flows, which may be greatly influenced by public perception/media talk ...

 

[Agenfrida]

Negatives:

- Griffin's definitely our second ruck; Clarke worked harder than his last game but is still so soft at the contest. Griffin definitely adds more forward pressure and scoring power.

- It seems that every time Fyfe plays Barlow's input drops remarkably. I was at the game and couldn't tell if Barlow was forced to play out of position again?

I always thought that they should swap roles. Barlow more in the guts, with stints as a forward, and Fyfe as a forward with stints as a mid. Barlow is big enough, has hands clean enough and positions well enough to do Fyfes job in the middle, but Fyfe is probably considerably better as a forward. The only question mark is can Fyfe clean up his set shots for goal? I think, especially as we typically tend not to play a second 'tall' having fyfe in the F50 forces oppo defences to lessen their focus on Pav. If fyfe isn't 100% he may also benefit from playing in a position that requires less running.

 

[dockerfemme]

I always thought that they should swap roles. Barlow more in the guts, with stints as a forward, and Fyfe as a forward with stints as a mid. Barlow is big enough, has hands clean enough and positions well enough to do Fyfes job in the middle, but Fyfe is probably considerably better as a forward. The only question mark is can Fyfe clean up his set shots for goal? I think, especially as we typically tend not to play a second 'tall' having fyfe in the F50 forces oppo defences to lessen their focus on Pav. If fyfe isn't 100% he may also benefit from playing in a position that requires less running.

I agree with you. I also think similar things can be said of Mundy. In the Melbourne match during the second quarter, we had Barlow in the guts and Mundy as the first receiver. This combo was wreaking havoc, as Mundy is elite on decision making and delivery. Mundy has such as broad skill set, and we largely only utilise the clearance beast aspect. Barlow is an excellent clearance player and less good at other things.

 

[StingBitten]

You can only play as well as the opposition let you play. Remember when we shocked the footy world and destroyed Geelong on the G that day or the final against Sydney here in 2013? Those weren't bad teams, particularly that Geelong team but we simply overwhelmed them with effort and appetite for the contest. 2013 we were favourites for the flag because our team looked unstoppable, people were saying they had never seen pressure like it before. Thats what the Eagles reminded me of on Friday and thats why they are favourites. They have that magical quality of confidence that lifts normally average players to heights where they do things they've never done (witness Josh Hill in career best form and Hutchings playing the game of his life).

In comparison our confidence is down and our effort was just enough to get over a wounded Sydney side. Yes they brought incredible effort but they had 4 of their best out. To put it in perspective if we went to Sydney without Pav, Fyfe, Barlow and Spurr and lost Mayne (the good Mayne of 2013) in the 1st quarter and came away with a 9 point loss on their deck in a final we would take a lot out of that. And you know what the footy media (other than those who actually bring intelligence and insight, which is precious few) would ignore our injuries and talk about how good Sydney were. Its just how we are viewed.

Only a few degrees of effort, confidence, skill and luck make such a difference at the highest level between sides that are so highly tuned and elite in preparation. We finished top of the ladder but that counts for nothing now and we seem to be missing that 1 or 2 percent at the top edge of confidence and effort we had in 2013 that had everyone raving about us. We are talking about the elite factors that are going to make a difference in the hardest game of the year.

The Eagles look like a team that believes they are going to win, the same way we did in 2013. Thats why everyone is jumping on them.
But the thing is we didn't win that year, we got ambushed by a stronger more experience finals side. If Clarke and Mayne can find form and Taberner plays out of his skin we can win this. We need marks inside the forward 50 and to make more of our forward 50 entries in general.

We are likely going to have to get past Hawthorn to get to the G anyway. If we do that the team will believe and people's minds will change pretty quick about Freo being able to win the flag. Or you know what? Adelaide might get carried on a wave of emotion and destroy the Hawks and go all the way.

I guess the point is we have to win 2 games of football from here and they will be the hardest games we've played all year and nothing less than 100% good Freo is going to get it done.

Was thinking of the parallels between West Coast this year and us in 2013 as well. If it were a Derby GF I imagine the media and half of Victoria will become Weagles for the weekend. I think Sam Butler might be their only premiership player and I doubt the game will be won of his boot.

Conversely being criticised for playing 'same old, same old' may work in our favour as the majority of our boys have played in all 8 finals since 2012...

 

[hoss]

play the ball not the man, if you think he's wrong argue his opinions instead of hurling insults.

He's an obvious troll though. Clear to almost everyone that the Hawks didn't turn up, yet Banker says it's 'laughable' to think that the Hawks didn't turn up???

 

[Reginald Perrin]

play the ball not the man, if you think he's wrong argue his opinions instead of hurling insults.

Fair call, but on the other hand the guy brings it upon himself by sending abusive PMs. Such a merchant banker.

 

[Centurions]

Great to get the win especially when we didn't play that well bringing the ball forward but must say I was surprised at how many players were slipping. You would have thought that given rain was predicted they would have had the studs on but certainly didn't look like it based on what I saw. Would have been horrendous if it rained early in a quarter..

 

[Mudd]

He's an obvious troll though. Clear to almost everyone that the Hawks didn't turn up, yet Banker says it's 'laughable' to think that the Hawks didn't turn up???

yep the hawks were definately off the pace, lots of uncharacteristic errors, I'm sure West Coast contributed to some of that, haven't seen Hawthorn play that bad in a long time though.

 

[salim malik]

play the ball not the man, if you think he's wrong argue his opinions instead of hurling insults.

At least I post what I think of him on here and not in personal emails full of crap.And he is not a Freo supporter.Are you?

 

[Banker]

He's an obvious troll though. Clear to almost everyone that the Hawks didn't turn up, yet Banker says it's 'laughable' to think that the Hawks didn't turn up???

So an experienced Hawks team decided not to turn up, as they REALLY wanted to travel to WA in two weeks time for a PF?

Have a look at their losses and you will see team that play a similar attacking plan as them, can beat them if they execute it better.

 

[Banker]

Yes, they were poor. That is my second point. Sydney were intense and Hawthorn were well below their best which puts the two games into perspective.



They had 4 significant outs, we had 2. They still played much better than the Hawks.



What was flawed about it. My first point was that we didn't make a lot of skill errors. Do have any evidence to counter that?



I think it's quite laughable that you think they did "turn up", yet you also agree that they were "well below their best".



Same reason we played an injured Fyfe. What's your point here? Were these two injuries one of the reasons they were well below their best? Probably just confirms my point that the Hawks were not the fierce competitor we know they can be.



It was a good win for a young side. I'd be more glowing if the Hawks had have been at their best. The Eagles brought great effort regardless of personel, same as Sydney.

Its flawed because it a raw stat.

There is nothing wrong with making skill errors, the issue is where did they occur and how badly did it impact? Much more complex than getting a raw stat and drawing conclusion.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

End of the day, you can only play as well as the opposition let you, and Fremantle let Sydney stay in the game, despite missing Franklin, Jack, Parker, Smith and Reid, and despite converting at 28% accuracy. Fremantle failed to put away a severely undermanned, inaccurate Sydney side, despite having plenty of momentum throughout the game. You can repeat it 100 times that the eagles faced easier opposition but it doesn't make it true. At first glance it may look that way, but Fremantle's failure to put Sydney away when they had momentum is why Sydney were still in it til the end, West Coast capitalized whenever they had momentum, despite missing Priddis and Masten against a full strength Hawthorn. The disposals per score count is evidence of this, for every 13 disposals, west coast scored, for every 20, fremantle scored, so it took them essentially 1 and a half times as many disposals to score, which tells you that they had slower, stalled ball movement, and didn't take enough risks to score when they had momentum.

They were 2 different games, and you can't say because one team was in it the whole way and another team wasn't, that it means the other team that was in it the whole way, would have beaten the other team head to head. It's apples and oranges, and both Hawthorn and Sydney's games were dependent on how their opponents let them play. I'm very interested to see how Fremantle goes up against the Hawks at Subi in a couple of weeks, I personally believe that Hawthorn will win comfortably, but we will have to wait and see. For the sake of WA footy, and West coast's premiership chances, I hope Fremantle wins, because no matter how run down or battered the Hawks are on Grand final day, I can't see us beating them at the MCG.

 

[StingBitten]

End of the day, you can only play as well as the opposition let you, and Fremantle let Sydney stay in the game, despite missing Franklin, Jack, Parker, Smith and Reid, and despite converting at 28% accuracy. Fremantle failed to put away a severely undermanned, inaccurate Sydney side, despite having plenty of momentum throughout the game. You can repeat it 100 times that the eagles faced easier opposition but it doesn't make it true. At first glance it may look that way, but Fremantle's failure to put Sydney away when they had momentum is why Sydney were still in it til the end, West Coast capitalized whenever they had momentum, despite missing Priddis and Masten against a full strength Hawthorn. The disposals per score count is evidence of this, for every 13 disposals, west coast scored, for every 20, fremantle scored, so it took them essentially 1 and a half times as many disposals to score, which tells you that they had slower, stalled ball movement, and didn't take enough risks to score when they had momentum.

They were 2 different games, and you can't say because one team was in it the whole way and another team wasn't, that it means the other team that was in it the whole way, would have beaten the other team head to head. It's apples and oranges, and both Hawthorn and Sydney's games were dependent on how their opponents let them play. I'm very interested to see how Fremantle goes up against the Hawks at Subi in a couple of weeks, I personally believe that Hawthorn will win comfortably, but we will have to wait and see. For the sake of WA footy, and West coast's premiership chances, I hope Fremantle wins, because no matter how run down or battered the Hawks are on Grand final day, I can't see us beating them at the MCG.

Thats 1000 characters too long for you flog.

 

[Nothing]

<more ****ing dribble>

This is the second thread you're filling with this crap, now **** off for good.

 

[Mudd]

At least I post what I think of him on here and not in personal emails full of crap.And he is not a Freo supporter.Are you?

Maybe discussing your issues with him in personal messages would be better that way the rest of us don't have to read it.

Yes I'm a Freo supporter and very proud to support our team, I'm not one eyed though and am happy to point out and discuss the teams deficiencies.

 

[kingswood71]

I'm very interested to see how Fremantle goes up against the Hawks at Subi in a couple of weeks, I personally believe that Hawthorn will win comfortably.

Wait!!!....Wait a minute!!....Did I sleep thru the semi-finals??!!!!! I am 100% sure that we are playing at Subi in 2 weeks....Not 100% sure about the Hawks.

 

[salim malik]

End of the day, you can only play as well as the opposition let you, and Fremantle let Sydney stay in the game, despite missing Franklin, Jack, Parker, Smith and Reid, and despite converting at 28% accuracy. Fremantle failed to put away a severely undermanned, inaccurate Sydney side, despite having plenty of momentum throughout the game. You can repeat it 100 times that the eagles faced easier opposition but it doesn't make it true. At first glance it may look that way, but Fremantle's failure to put Sydney away when they had momentum is why Sydney were still in it til the end, West Coast capitalized whenever they had momentum, despite missing Priddis and Masten against a full strength Hawthorn. The disposals per score count is evidence of this, for every 13 disposals, west coast scored, for every 20, fremantle scored, so it took them essentially 1 and a half times as many disposals to score, which tells you that they had slower, stalled ball movement, and didn't take enough risks to score when they had momentum.

They were 2 different games, and you can't say because one team was in it the whole way and another team wasn't, that it means the other team that was in it the whole way, would have beaten the other team head to head. It's apples and oranges, and both Hawthorn and Sydney's games were dependent on how their opponents let them play. I'm very interested to see how Fremantle goes up against the Hawks at Subi in a couple of weeks, I personally believe that Hawthorn will win comfortably, but we will have to wait and see. For the sake of WA footy, and West coast's premiership chances, I hope Fremantle wins, because no matter how run down or battered the Hawks are on Grand final day, I can't see us beating them at the MCG.

I've copped warnings for calling out tossers.For you I'll take my punishment.You are a complete and utter dribbling tosser .Go away .

 

[estibador]

There was a sigh of disappointment around me when the attendance was announced. I was quietly pleased. Think we supporters compete over anything and everything

Haha those were my first words when that flashed up: 'damn, less than the eagles game'

Though I'm sure it was only because 3000 of your supporters bought tickets to deliberately not show up so you could 'win'