Freo's trading and drafting

[The Gov]

Really don't think anyone should be writing off Freo, they finished top of the ladder in a season where they actually played some pretty average footy.

Carey made a comment on the Eagles late in the season which I found interesting, that almost all the players in the 22 were having close to career best seasons which is fair - players like Cripps, Sheppard, McGovern and Yeo had their first seasons where they deservedly rated as good players of the AFL and our A graders like Kennedy and Priddis stepped it up a notch. There was no magical off-season aquisitions that boosted us from 9th to 2nd, it was just tweaks to the game plan and a leap in output from a lot of important players.

Freo didn't get that tall forward they were after but it's not like Tippett and Franklin won the 2014 flag for Sydney - they did it in 2012 without either of them. West Coast played well in 2015 (GF aside) with no key defenders. A few player improvements here and there (maybe Neale or Mundy kick a few more goals, maybe Yarran adds the right element to their forward line, or Bennell adds some scoring class, maybe Taberner comes on a bit, maybe Ballantyne improves on his shitty 2015) and Freo will be well placed to challenge for a flag.

If these types of players have their career best years like players for West Coast did there'll be enough of a shift in form for Freo to overcome their lack of a dominant key forward, and when you think that Freo still finished minor premiers with some players playing below their best (or potential, players like Neale did well but could improve is what I mean) I see no reason why they couldn't be dominant next season.

If the GF was played in the first half of the season Freo would have won, but it was played in the second when their form was bad. Obviously people only remember the most recent games and bag Freo for not being able to score but that wasn't an issue in round 10 was it? And I think they can improve even on their first half of the season for the reasons I've stated. Scary.

Of course I'll be hoping they all play terribly and miss the 8 but I can't deny I find them worrying in 2016.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I will take the Ross Lyon era from 2012 onwards over the 1995-2011 period no questions asked. From 1995-2011, Freo only made finals only in 2003, 06 and 2010. Under Lyon despite no flag, He has got us to a granny, a minor premiership and some respectable finals wins. I can't say the same thing about your blockhead of a coach.

That's fine, but where is Buckley mentioned in any of my posts?
I notice a lot of freo supporters revert to bagging other clubs or coaches to get a point across, doesn't work.
If you're happy with Ross, then good for you, if you want to bag other clubs/coaches, then take what you give.
If you actually read both my posts in the context it was given, it was in reply to another freo supporter, bagging another club.
I was just pointing out Ross hasn't left freo yet, so we have to wait and see.

 

[dcutter]

Really don't think anyone should be writing off Freo, they finished top of the ladder in a season where they actually played some pretty average footy.

Carey made a comment on the Eagles late in the season which I found interesting, that almost all the players in the 22 were having close to career best seasons which is fair - players like Cripps, Sheppard, McGovern and Yeo had their first seasons where they deservedly rated as good players of the AFL and our A graders like Kennedy and Priddis stepped it up a notch. There was no magical off-season aquisitions that boosted us from 9th to 2nd, it was just tweaks to the game plan and a leap in output from a lot of important players.

Freo didn't get that tall forward they were after but it's not like Tippett and Franklin won the 2014 flag for Sydney - they did it in 2012 without either of them. West Coast played well in 2015 (GF aside) with no key defenders. A few player improvements here and there (maybe Neale or Mundy kick a few more goals, maybe Yarran adds the right element to their forward line, or Bennell adds some scoring class, maybe Taberner comes on a bit, maybe Ballantyne improves on his shitty 2015) and Freo will be well placed to challenge for a flag.

If these types of players have their career best years like players for West Coast did there'll be enough of a shift in form for Freo to overcome their lack of a dominant key forward, and when you think that Freo still finished minor premiers with some players playing below their best (or potential, players like Neale did well but could improve is what I mean) I see no reason why they couldn't be dominant next season.

If the GF was played in the first half of the season Freo would have won, but it was played in the second when their form was bad. Obviously people only remember the most recent games and bag Freo for not being able to score but that wasn't an issue in round 10 was it? And I think they can improve even on their first half of the season for the reasons I've stated. Scary.

Of course I'll be hoping they all play terribly and miss the 8 but I can't deny I find them worrying in 2016.

Carey is a twit who is rapidly becoming a laughing stock in commentating.

Despite finishing top, no one saw them as a premiership threat. For good reason.

A few points to note:

- Their early season success was on the back of a brutal pre-season aimed to get the jump on teams for early wins. It worked. However when other teams caught up they were found wanting

- the difference b/w WC and Fremantle is two different game plans. Lyon has never shown an ability to adapt nor change a game plan that is becoming increasingly outdated and inevitably found wanting in finals.

- The GF is played in the second half of the season - a time when Fremantle traditionally go missing

- Fremantle's lack of foward power is a major reason why they can't make the next step. Franklin and Tippett played a major role in getting them to the 14' GF.
Buddy's two late goals in the qualifyer against Freo won that game

- Don't underestimate how less effective WC would be w/o Kennedy and Darling.

Freo will in all liklihood play finals again but aren't a premiership threat for 16'.
Not with that forward line.

 

[JackFlash]

Fremantle could very well finish on top again, but is anyone really afraid of that scenario? I reckon the Dogs attacking brand of footy will clean them up in September. The drawback is the coach who insists on a game plan that has failed time and time again. Can Lyon tame Bennell? What happens if Fyfe is 100% for the entire season? They have some plusses, but Ross the boss must let them off the leash and score more, otherwise it's looming as another wasted season.

 

[rgauci]

a few theories worth debunking;

The game is heading towards more offense. Their has been a continual downward spiral in scoring for most of the last decade. No question the teams that score best often win the flag, they also often have the tightest defense too. You need both.

Our first half run was based on fitness. Doesn't explain how we often blew teams away in the first quarter, fitness isn't a factor then.

Lack of key forwards killed our year. Nope. The real reason we faulted was atrocious ball movement which was a stark contrast to early season. Nothing to do with poor key forwards. We went back to fumbly 2 touch football that brought us back to the pack.

We can't improve, combined with the argument we have no additional scoring options. Bennell and Yarran will kick more goals in 2016 than they did in 2015. Obviously it's not that simple. Ballantyne went backwards, I'm sure he can return to 2014. No preseason didn't help in 2015.

We have no midfield depth. This was true in 2013 but has been largely addressed already. The root of our poor scoring problem lies in our ball movement which relates to midfielders outside our best 5-6. Weller, Blakeley, Langdon, Grey, Morabito, Tucker and Balic are a reasonable bunch of youngsters who are capable of replacing our worst midfielders. They might be ready for 22 games in 2016, but if some of them can get 10-12 games they'll move us forward.

We just lost a heap of experience. Their were only 2 players who played a game in 2015 which retired, they were McPharlin (18 games) and Duffield (14 games). McPharlin though a champion could be covered by Alex Pearce (13 games), Dawson (5), Johnson (15), Silvagni (2), Smith (1) or Collins (0). The latter two have a few preseasons under their belt. Realistically it'll be Dawson and Alex Pearce taking up the slack. Duffield's 14 games can be eaten up pretty easily by a variety of players.

Anything I've missed?

Oh yeah, Lyon's willingness to change. Hired Hale and Guerra, hardly two from the Paul Roos academy of coaching.

 

[Defacto]

a few theories worth debunking;

The game is heading towards more offense. Their has been a continual downward spiral in scoring for most of the last decade. No question the teams that score best often win the flag, they also often have the tightest defense too. You need both.

Our first half run was based on fitness. Doesn't explain how we often blew teams away in the first quarter, fitness isn't a factor then.

Lack of key forwards killed our year. Nope. The real reason we faulted was atrocious ball movement which was a stark contrast to early season. Nothing to do with poor key forwards. We went back to fumbly 2 touch football that brought us back to the pack.

We can't improve, combined with the argument we have no additional scoring options. Bennell and Yarran will kick more goals in 2016 than they did in 2015. Obviously it's not that simple. Ballantyne went backwards, I'm sure he can return to 2014. No preseason didn't help in 2015.

We have no midfield depth. This was true in 2013 but has been largely addressed already. The root of our poor scoring problem lies in our ball movement which relates to midfielders outside our best 5-6. Weller, Blakeley, Langdon, Grey, Morabito, Tucker and Balic are a reasonable bunch of youngsters who are capable of replacing our worst midfielders. They might be ready for 22 games in 2016, but if some of them can get 10-12 games they'll move us forward.

We just lost a heap of experience. Their were only 2 players who played a game in 2015 which retired, they were McPharlin (18 games) and Duffield (14 games). McPharlin though a champion could be covered by Alex Pearce (13 games), Dawson (5), Johnson (15), Silvagni (2), Smith (1) or Collins (0). The latter two have a few preseasons under their belt. Realistically it'll be Dawson and Alex Pearce taking up the slack. Duffield's 14 games can be eaten up pretty easily by a variety of players.

Anything I've missed?

Oh yeah, Lyon's willingness to change. Hired Hale and Guerra, hardly two from the Paul Roos academy of coaching.

Heard the our game plan is leading to more offence crap in the 2009/2010 offseason. Its all words. Never backed up with any action

Do you really see ross investing that much game time in those kids? As for moora he's a rookie and his legs are cooked. Time to move on

Also out lloyd in guerra is hardly a massive improvement. Its a big step backwards

 

[sproketman]

Will slot in nicely into our midfield

He's slow and can't kick, so yeah, he will.

 

[XXRL]

inevitably found wanting in finals

So the bounce of the ball in the drawn GF was an INEVITABLE consequence of Ross Lyon's outdated game-plan?

Most idiotic comment I've ever read.

The GF is played in the second half of the season - a time when Fremantle traditionally go missing

What is your evidence base for this assertion? In 2013 Freo saved their best footy for the second half of the season and made the GF. An evidence base of ONE season doesn't make it a "tradition".

Again, you're hardly showering yourself in glory.

 

[Bender_]

That's fine, but where is Buckley mentioned in any of my posts?
I notice a lot of freo supporters revert to bagging other clubs or coaches to get a point across, doesn't work.
If you're happy with Ross, then good for you, if you want to bag other clubs/coaches, then take what you give.
If you actually read both my posts in the context it was given, it was in reply to another freo supporter, bagging another club.
I was just pointing out Ross hasn't left freo yet, so we have to wait and see.

It's standard Freo operating procedure; don't address your own club's shortcomings, just put your fingers in your ears and point out opposition clubs' perceived issues.

It's not only a Docker character trait on this site, but in real life too.

 

[kane249]

He's slow and can't kick, so yeah, he will.

Won't be his role, he like Priddis will be in charge of dishing it out to the players who can kick like Gaff, Shuey, Jetta and co.

 

[kane249]

A forward line of Walters, Ballantyne, Pavlich, Fyfe, Bennell, Yarren and Taberner / A Pearce looks pretty damn good actually.

Talk about cherry picking, a more accurate forward 6 is

Ballantyne, Pavlich, Griffin, Walters, Mayne, Taberner

Now THAT is one of the worst in the league.

 

[Spoken4]

Talk about cherry picking, a more accurate forward 6 is

Ballantyne, Pavlich, Griffin, Walters, Mayne, Taberner

Now THAT is one of the worst in the league.

Not sure what you are talking about.

Yarren will play half forward. Fyfe and Bennell will rotate through half forward and thus be part of the forward line.

 

[Spoken4]

It's standard Freo operating procedure; don't address your own club's shortcomings, just put your fingers in your ears and point out opposition clubs' perceived issues.

Never been to our Board? Quite the opposite is true.

It's not only a Docker character trait on this site, but in real life too.

Got an axe to grind? Take it to the Bay where your talents can be better appreciated.

 

[kane249]

Not sure what you are talking about.

Yarren will play half forward. Fyfe and Bennell will rotate through half forward and thus be part of the forward line.

Like it or not you will play a resting ruck up forward, with further reduced rotations next season Griffin will be spending a lot of time in your forward line and will be part of your setup. Unless you plan on not having a second ruck, and having Sandilands go full games with not backup. So straight up 3 of your forward 6 will be Pav, Griffin and Taberner.

Walters and Ballantyne pick themselves, that's 5/6 spots gone.

Leaves you only one spot for Mayne/Yarran. So welcome to your starting forward 6.

You may rotate other players through there as a game wears on, but it still doesn't disguise the fact your starting 6 forwards are woeful.

 

[Bender_]

Never been to our Board? Quite the opposite is true.

Er, how would a Freo fan point out the shortcomings of a fan of the same team in an effort to deflect? Makes zero sense.

Got an axe to grind? Take it to the Bay where your talents can be better appreciated.

Perhaps you can scuttle back to your own board if you can't handle criticism.

 

[XXRL]

Criticises Fremantle.
Criticises Freo fans.
Criticises Freo fans for criticising other clubs.
Complains Freo fans can't take criticism without criticising others.

In the world of Bender criticism is totally a one-way street.

 

[Bender_]

Criticises Fremantle.
Criticises Freo fans.
Criticises Freo fans for criticising other clubs.
Complains Freo fans can't take criticism without criticising others.

In the world of Bender criticism is totally a one-way street.

Geez that Bender guy seems a bit much.

 

[kane249]

Geez that Bender guy seems a bit much.

I hate that guy, he's the worst

 

[Bender_]

I hate that guy, he's the worst

I don't know Bender, I -- I never met Bender or had any contact with him, but...I'm sorry, I can't go on.

 

[trentjac]

Quality post.... cant provide evidence to argue against the post, which i think most neutrals would agree with. So you've gone the man

Pav can retire when ever he feels like it. He is still contributing greatly to the team. McCarthy is not the answer to premiership success. We have added some additional scoring power in Bennel and Yarran and improvement from some other players will see us have another decent crack this year. Better?

 

[kane249]

I don't know Bender, I -- I never met Bender or had any contact with him, but...I'm sorry, I can't go on.

That's ok, your tears say more than any real evidence ever could

 

[masai]

Fremantle could very well finish on top again, but is anyone really afraid of that scenario? I reckon the Dogs attacking brand of footy will clean them up in September. The drawback is the coach who insists on a game plan that has failed time and time again. Can Lyon tame Bennell? What happens if Fyfe is 100% for the entire season? They have some plusses, but Ross the boss must let them off the leash and score more, otherwise it's looming as another wasted season.

I'll agree that Ross at times needs to let the "attacking" players to take the "game on" and create.

For example, if Hill & Bennell are 60 metres out and are in the clear, they should not stop and try to find a team mate with a handball, which ends up with handball ring a rosy !!!!!!. They should make a quick 10 metres and then direct a bullet kick through the big sticks.

Team rules are great, but the experienced players should be able to take the initiative without repercussions from the coaches, 3 stories up in the grandstand.

 

[Spoken4]

You may rotate other players through there as a game wears on, but it still doesn't disguise the fact your starting 6 forwards are woeful.

What, all of them? I'm struggling to think of a current better small forward duo than Walters and Ballantyne.

 

[kane249]

What, all of them? I'm struggling to think of a current better small forward duo than Walters and Ballantyne.

They are good, but it doesn't disguise the fact the rest of them are mediocre at best.
-34 year old Pav on the decline
-Mayne who peaked 2 years ago or an unknown soon to be 27 year old with zero AFL experience
-Taberner who's development went backwards sharply last season
-One of Griffin/Clarke who can't clunk marks to save their life

But mind you it's the same forward line you confidently thought would take you all the way last season, so who am I to shatter your delusions?

 

[rgauci]

They are good, but it doesn't disguise the fact the rest of them are mediocre at best.
-34 year old Pav on the decline
-Mayne who peaked 2 years ago or an unknown soon to be 27 year old with zero AFL experience
-Taberner who's development went backwards sharply last season
-One of Griffin/Clarke who can't clunk marks to save their life

But mind you it's the same forward line you confidently thought would take you all the way last season, so who am I to shatter your delusions?

Ballantyne and Walters are good. Pavlich is still good but old. Who's to say Bennell won't replace Mayne. Or we don't stick Fyfe forward completely as a 2nd tall instead of Taberner. It will be detrimental to the midfield but they bat pretty deep. What about Johnson forward with the acquisition of Collins? Or Alex Pearce forward? What if someone from the fringe steps up? Are you pessimistic in all aspects of life?