From Transitional to Permanent

[Rave Slave]

Just curious as to where other Crows fans see our transitional players as being at @ this point in time.

Who do you think has taken that next step from being Transitional to a permanent fixture?

I'll have a crack

Shirley - Permanent, think he's been as good a value as Stenglein if not better in terms of his ability to kick goals. Whilst not extremely damaging by foot is often the man who goes in and gets the ball out. Very Nuggety type player (if that makes sense ) and deserves his spot in the starting 18. Extremely happy with a bloke I've often criticised

Skipworth - Jury still Out, Too small and too slow. The guy trys his guts out and does have the ability to do some nice things. Will be on our list for another year or two at least while we lookout for a small crumbing forward. If he developed that ability to crumb the taps he could be that 30-40 goal small forward we're so desperately screaming out for. Won't make it to permanent IMO.

Doughty - Transitional, 26 and (should be) at his peak.. yet still floating in and out of games. His best is good enough but his worst is awful. Should make way for Chris Knights come next year.

Bock - Permanent, another one I harshly criticised at the beginning of the season. He's become a valuable member and appears as if he's finally getting the hang of his new body. Hopefully next year he can really hurt players with his bumps and provide some more of that rebound he's provided us in recent weeks. Should really learn from the bath Pav game him on the weekend.

Perrie - Permanent...ish, The one thats really tried his guts out this year. Has held down his spot without any glamour whatsoever and, whilst I don't think he'll ever command the starting CHF position he could definitely be a damaging 3rd tall that comes off the bench. Expect him to be playing in the WAFL next year however.

Biglands - Transitional, Too many inconsistencies and failings in his games to be considered a permanent fixture. Will play another year or so whilst Meese and Maric develop. May attract interest from a club screaming for ruckmen in a trade however due to sheer size.

Ladhams - Saved only by the junk on our list

Bode - See Ladhams

Stevens (S) - See Ladhams

Clarke - Retired (to continue as coach)

Stevens (M) - Retired

Massie - Delisted

Begley - Delisted

Krueger - Delisted

Smith - Delisted

Schuback - Delisted

By my reckoning that's 5 Delistings and two retirements making way for a couple of rookie promotions. Think that Bode, Stevens and Ladhams all got very lucky that we've got such poor depth on our list at the moment. For anyone who genuinely thinks we are a flag contender even with injuries just have a look at some of those depth players

 

[GoSarge]

Sounds about right mate.

Would have to agree with all of it even the delistings ands retirements.

 

[Mad Dog]

Nice post RS......I still say all are transition players....and will eventually make way for better talent. Having said that....Skippy, Bock, and Shirley have probably put their names at the bottom of that "clear out" list with servicable performances so far this year.

If you listen to NC.....he loves them all.....so the next few years might be interesting.

btw I think Kreugs might get 1 more years reprieve

 

[Rave Slave]

Thanks Lads

MD, I reckon Kruegs is shot, bad back usually signals the end of a footballer's career and, from all accounts, Kruegs' back isn't good enough to even hold up at SANFL level anymore.

I reckon Bocky could make it as long as he develops that shutdown mechanism into his game - he needs more strings to his bow. He struggled with that at SANFL level as well and Pavlich exploited that big time on the weekend. Would be a very nifty player if we could get him to shut down completely on the extra damaging forwards but provide drive against the lesser lights.

One can only dream

 

[Rave Slave]

If Biglands is around until Meesen and Maric are ready to make the step up, then he aint "Transitional" by any stretch. Meesen has been servicable, but will take a couple of years at SANFL level before we can seriously look at him. Maric can not kick for ********. 3 times during the Port Norwood clash, his kicks dribbled 15m along the ground. And no, not one of those fancy wormburning passes, i'm talking Div 7 Amo kick.

Did you see Biggles kick against Geelong, you know the one I'm talking about - Div 7 at BEST

 

[Crow-mosone]

I don't think there is any such thing as a transition player, and that is half the problem caused with some players subject to abnormal amounts of scrutiny.

After all, let's look at what is claimed to be a transition player:
1. "someone who is only in the team, until someone better comes along"
who doesn't this apply to? no one. anytime there is someone better, they will get your spot. Unless your name is ricciuto, carey or Jarman, that is true of nearly every player. While you are in the best 22, you are in the best 22. end of story.

2. "someone who you couldn't see in a premiership team"
more tripe. we won premierships off the strength of our second unit. Clay Sampson, Rintoul, Ellen, Keating etc. etc.

a transition player is a label attached to a player that someone previously didn't rate, but is now performing beyond dispute.

Let's look at someone like Robert Shirley, though there are other examples. Are there better players out there. yes.
However, lets consider overall mix and balance of the team list.
Tyson Stenglein, by replacing him with a role player, we get 75% of his effectiveness (some would argue more); and we can use the value in exchange on Scott Thompson.

So in this case, Thompson + Role player = considerably more than Tyson Stenglein. Let's not get carried away thinking we could improve the role player too much, what he as done is part of an upgrading transaction, and allows the team to focus on other areas. We no longer need worry about this, we have a guy who follows team orders, doesn't demand an increased role on the team, and is economical on the salary cap.

It is the whole mix we are talking about, not just one player. If one 'role player' allows us to upgrade another position of need, then this is a net gain for the club, not someone barely dodging the axe.

There is no such thing as a transition player, there is only the best we have at a given moment.

 

[Crow-mosone]

As additional followup. If the club has the ability in an open market, with an plethora of willing traders, and taking into account playing time/role/financial expectation etc. that it could make as many stenglein for thompson/shirley adjustments as it wanted to.

As an example you would still probably end up with 12 first line players, and 6 role players in your starting 18. Someone has to do dull; defensive assignments, make contests, do dirty work etc. So I am guessing that you would have 2/3 prime movers, and 1/3 role players.

these 1/3 role players are not transitional players, they are essential to team balance. In truth, they are teh ones that allow more important manouevres to be made.

Consider Bock to CHB, which frees Kenny to CHF, and Perrie to a flank. The knock on effect is a lot more than Bock does at CHB.

The knock on effect of a role player is what seems to be misunderstood when they are classified 'transitional' players because you cannot realistically have 18 prime movers in your team.

 

[macca23]

2 excellent examples there in Shirley and Bock, CM.

2 players step up and 4 positions benefit

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I would swap Ladhams and Bode for Begley and Schuie in the delist column.

 

[drakeyv2]

2 excellent examples there in Shirley and Bock, CM.

2 players step up and 4 positions benefit

Very true

 

[conVINCEd]

I would swap Ladhams and Bode for Begley and Schuie in the delist column.

Exactly, exactly my thoughts SC.

And I love The Office.

And I love The Larry Sanders Show - how funny is the dude that looks like Dr. Phil?

Ahh, the memories...

 

[RoosterLad]

why does everybody on this board worship Schuback?

the fact is, he's injured all the time, and he's never shown anything, never looked like getting a gig and struggles to make Glenelg's A team.

tomorrow i expect big D White and Gilly to give him a football lesson
he should be delisted, Ladhams is 500% more talented than Schuback

 

[outback jack]

why does everybody on this board worship Schuback?

the fact is, he's injured all the time, and he's never shown anything, never looked like getting a gig and struggles to make Glenelg's A team.

tomorrow i expect big D White and Gilly to give him a football lesson
he should be delisted, Ladhams is 500% more talented than Schuback

why do you blindly support ladhams>? He has wasted his chance. Schuback has time to change things if he wants too, ladhams has chosen not too already. Youth is our future. Its most likely that both will not make it with VB and knights showing what they can do. And having talent and little commitment means nothing really. His talent is debatable anyway, hes only considered as a crumber cause we havent recruited any, and the amount of hard ball he wins is low. His footskills were his strength and the teams has improved from very poor to average this yr anyway, so i’m not sure how much of an advantage that is these days.

 

[macca23]

why do you blindly support ladhams>? He has wasted his chance. Schuback has time to change things if he wants too, ladhams has chosen not too already. Youth is our future. Its most likely that both will not make it with VB and knights showing what they can do. And having talent and little commitment means nothing really. His talent is debatable anyway, hes only considered as a crumber cause we havent recruited any, and the amount of hard ball he wins is low. His footskills were his strength and the teams has improved from very poor to average this yr anyway, so i’m not sure how much of an advantage that is these days.

He is correct in what he says in terms of ability though jack. Ladhams has more in his little finger than Schuey has altogether. unfortunately ladhams doesn't appear to have that necessary x factor - the one where the player is prepared to work his arse off so that he can constantly give his best.

You'll probably be right though when you say that neither are likely to be on our list next years - for different reasons though.

 

[outback jack]

He is correct in what he says in terms of ability though jack. Ladhams has more in his little finger than Schuey has altogether. unfortunately ladhams doesn't appear to have that necessary x factor - the one where the player is prepared to work his arse off so that he can constantly give his best.

You'll probably be right though when you say that neither are likely to be on our list next years - for different reasons though.

Someone like rioli is a person who i'd say is talented but slack as crap. Ladhams' talent is overrated imo, he aint that flash. Whether he is better than schuback is debatable. He aint really a crumber like ladhams. Cant see schuback getting a game at AFL to be honest with the forward role he likes to play. Needs to get in the middle if thats possible.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

He is correct in what he says in terms of ability though jack. Ladhams has more in his little finger than Schuey has altogether. unfortunately ladhams doesn't appear to have that necessary x factor - the one where the player is prepared to work his arse off so that he can constantly give his best.

You'll probably be right though when you say that neither are likely to be on our list next years - for different reasons though.

I agree Macca that Ladhams has heaps more ability than Shuey, but given that Chris has had ample opportunities to pull his head in & hasn't, I would delist him ahead of Schuback ... though there is a chance both will drop of our list at year's end.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Ladhams - Saved only by the junk on our list

Bode - See Ladhams

Stevens (S) - See Ladhams

Clarke - Retired (to continue as coach)

Stevens (M) - Retired

Massie - Delisted

Begley - Delisted

Krueger - Delisted

Smith - Delisted

Schuback - Delisted

By my reckoning that's 5 Delistings and two retirements making way for a couple of rookie promotions. Think that Bode, Stevens and Ladhams all got very lucky that we've got such poor depth on our list at the moment. For anyone who genuinely thinks we are a flag contender even with injuries just have a look at some of those depth players

Good post RS.

IMO, Krueger, Smith & Ladhams are near certainties to be delisted. Then probably a tossup between the likes of Schuback/Bode & Begley/Massie depending on the remainder of the season.

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

Here are my thoughts.


Shirley - Permanent Definately. Has taken his chances and proved his worth.

Skipworth - Permanent Stepped up another level this year. Skippy to stay.

Doughty - Transitional Time to seek out a trade. Has been 'around the mark' for a number of years but fails to take the next step.

Bock - Permanent Really has improved out of sight. Great to see and worth hanging onto.

Perrie - Permanent Now, I am not an Ian Perrie fan, but we really do need him.

Biglands - Pemanent Either as a ruckman or forward. He is experienced and you just can't buy that.

Ladhams - Goodbye

Bode - Goodbye

Stevens (S) - Goodbye

Clarke - Retire please

Stevens (M) - Retired - *boohoo*

Massie - Delist

Begley - Delist

Krueger - Delist

Smith - Delist

Schuback - Delist