G Half Full

[Timmy from Thomastown]

So you admit Essendon have a greater drawing power then Collingwood then

Dumb question really.

They have similar drawing power, so when they play each other obviously the effect is multplied.

 

[Hawkk]

You missed my point. Give it to them as a fixture and they will hammer it and it will be huge. Then everyone will be screaming. Like I said, who cares though.

How is that different then if you gave the fixture to Hawthorn and Melbourne over a 2-3 year period and actively promoted the game in the greater media - like what the AFL does with Queens Birthday and ANZAC Day.

If built up you could probably build on the core 45,000 to 55,000-60,000 - the apparent base crowd according to some in this thread

 

[Hawkk]

Dumb question really.

They have similar drawing power, so when they play each other obviously the effect is multplied.

So what would the crowd break down be at a Collingwood/Bulldogs game then 32/18,000?

32,000 x 2 = 64,000 (assuming the same quota of away fans turn up to the game which is unrealistic)

A crowd of 60,000 - which falls in line with the average Collingwood-Essendon home and away game, would probably be expected then...

 

[doppleganger]

Im not questioning that at all. You said people go to watch them. I simply commented on why peole go to watch them, and its nothing to do with football ability of the players. My question was SO WHAT if you read the post correctly. You now say more people DO go for Collingwood and Essendon.... I again say SO WHAT? If it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling deep inside Im happy for you but apparently it doesnt make a fats cracker of a difference to winning premierships (shhh dont mention that) or wooden spoons (shhh dont mention that either). Players and coaches do however make a difference.

winning premierships does relate to the support u have

who are the most heavily supported clubs in Melbourne

Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton........the three clubs who have won the most flags

 

[doppleganger]

How is that different then if you gave the fixture to Hawthorn and Melbourne over a 2-3 year period and actively promoted the game in the greater media - like what the AFL does with Queens Birthday and ANZAC Day.

If built up you could probably build on the core 45,000 to 55,000-60,000 - the apparent base crowd according to some in this thread

since when do the AFL promote ANZAC day???

Sheedy does that himself, nobody else does.....yet the game is already close to sold out

haven't seen any AFL advertisement for ANZAC day this year

 

[Hawkk]

Attendances for Anzac Day Game since it's inception:

1995 - 94,825
1996 - 87,549
1997 - 83,271
1998 - 81,542
1999 - 73,118
2000 - 88,390
2001 - 83,905
2002 - 84,894
2003 - 62,589
2004 - 57,294
2005 - 70,033
2006 - 91,234

Average crowd size - 79,887

Attendances for the rematch game each years since 1995:

1995 - 77,448
1996 - 51,057
1997 - 50,944
1998 - 64,480
1999 - 56,129
2000 - 66,608
2001 - 71,518
2002 - 69,613
2003 - 68,381
2004 - 52,983
2005 - 52,507
2006 - 62,940

Average crowd size - 62,051

Thanks for proving my point - given FNF tends to add 4-5,000 people (generally) it all adds up.

 

[ShanBoi]

psst i think you will also find that when clubs are successfull they will draw larger crowds. Both melbourne and hawthorn were poor in their opening round, and both were on a loss

If both teams had played and won finals the last few years and come off sensational wins in round 1, the crowd would have been a bit different. I know the pies and bombers havent been up there either but its no secret they have larger supporter bases.

LASTLY. It isnt really a fair comparison. Easter weekend is a 4 day break where people go away camping and what not. Anzac day is mid week. Just a thought!

 

[Hawkk]

since when do the AFL promote ANZAC day???

Sheedy does that himself, nobody else does.....yet the game is already close to sold out

haven't seen any AFL advertisement for ANZAC day this year

The RSL, the AFL subtly through promotions such as ANZAC Round, the TV networks - obviously the clubs big support bases plays a role and media outlets all build it up. Hence the big roll up.

If Hawthorn/Melbourne or any club for that matter were given that means for promotion, the crowds would probably be 15-20% higher then an average home and away/Easter Monday crowd.

The fact that the clash was given minimal press - with the press given to the game centreing on the negative standard of play, it was never going to attract a significantly higher crowd then it would have if it had been on a Saturday/Sunday.

Irrespective of that I don't really care, we won the game (and are now in the 8 ), had a strong turnout in the crowd, made a profit and probably sold some memberships...move onto next week.

 

[doppleganger]

Thanks for proving my point - given FNF tends to add 4-5,000 people (generally) it all adds up.

take a look at the first up pies v carl crowd and the return crowd

there will be a similar drop off, as the teams both haven't been going well at the same time

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

I read your post. Clearly you didnt understand my point at all or you chose to ignore it. You cannot with any certainty or convicing argument, hang your hat on a statitic based on one year. I asked what may have affected the ANZAC crowd and you pointed out that Ess were 2-2 (hardly a good start) and Pies had a big loss the week before. To then compare the return match crowd to the following week's final against BL is a joke and not even worthy of covering.

No argument when they are both up and about they will draw huge crowds. If you think Anzac day just happens to have larger crowds each year (accept 03) than the return match just because of 'up and about' form your argument is flawed IMO.

 

[dave_27]

It's always amazed me how so many Essendon 'supporters' display such arrogance and self belief of their superiority over others. During a couple of reality-check seasons they went a bit quiet didnt they and didnt the bandwagon suddenly have a few empty seats (pretty ironic this post is about crowds considering the drop-off in Essendon crowds at the Dome in recent years).

Hmm, our crowds in 2005 in a year of bottom 4 were higher than 2003 which was a finals year.

Essendon last year were the 2nd most attended club last year, not bad for a club coming off 15 straight losses.

And while I am at it - anyone notice the large number of EMPTY seats at the Dome on Sunday? Thats right - EMPTY seats. A crowd of 32,000 of which i'm sure we could say at least 2000 were Dockers. Pretty poor considering the win in round 1 and all the usual 'how good are essendon' early season spin.

Funny given between 30k - 35k is what we've drawn against Fremantle or West Coast at the dome in most games no matter what positon on the ladder we've been.

Their goes your bandwagon theory on that one.

I always find it amusing how Essendon fans talk themselves up as being big crowd pullers alongside Collingwood. Difference is, Collingwood wouldnt have had empty seats on Sunday, nor would their crowds have dropped last year like Essendons.

Interesting given Essendon drew more against West Coast last year while sitting rock bottom than what Collingwood drew in the same position in 2005.

Another certain club in a similar position drew this on a sunny Sunday at the G:

Round 16, 2004
16 Hawthorn 1.3 4.4 5.8 7.11 (53)
3 Port Adel 4.3 7.9 11.12 15.15 (105)
Crowd: 11,682 at the Melbourne Cricket Ground

 

[Hawkk]

take a look at the first up pies v carl crowd and the return crowd

there will be a similar drop off, as the teams both haven't been going well at the same time

Not a 20,000 drop off every year the MCG has been at maximum capacity.

 

[doppleganger]

The RSL, the AFL subtly through promotions such as ANZAC Round, the TV networks - obviously the clubs big support bases plays a role and media outlets all build it up. Hence the big roll up.

If Hawthorn/Melbourne or any club for that matter were given that means for promotion, the crowds would probably be 15-20% higher then an average home and away/Easter Monday crowd.

The fact that the clash was given minimal press - with the press given to the game centreing on the negative standard of play, it was never going to attract a significantly higher crowd then it would have if it had been on a Saturday/Sunday.

Irrespective of that I don't really care, we won the game (and are now in the 8 ), had a strong turnout in the crowd, made a profit and probably sold some memberships...move onto next week.

what actually is the biggest crowd that has attended a melb v hawks HA game??

u say the average crowd is 40-45K so playing it on ANZAC would have a crowd of perhaps 55K

that simply doesn't generate the same revenue streams as a 90K pies v dons game

 

[doppleganger]

Not a 20,000 drop off every year the MCG has been at maximum capacity.

what would the figure be

a substantial drop off id imagine!

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

winning premierships does relate to the support u have

who are the most heavily supported clubs in Melbourne

Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton........the three clubs who have won the most flags

Dopple you have just done yourself the greatest injustice. I would hang my head in shame at that response. You surely dont need reminding of your one premiership in half a century not to mention the dubious backroom record of Carlton over the past 20yrs. Essendon can certainly stand up above those other two with some credibility but the majority of all three teams premierships were won when the competition was a basket case weighted towards the established VFL clubs.

There isnt a better example of the counter to your response than Hawks and Kangas who are amongst the most succesful clubs of the past 30yrs when the competition has been regulated and guess what - comparatively small supporter bases throughout their dominant periods.

Thanks for coming

 

[MarkT]

So you're working on the rivalry now and not the popularity of the 2 sides.

I’m not particularly working on anything other than common sense. Collingwood and Essendon have a lot of supporters they go go their game sin numbers and the numbers are greater when they play each other. If the G could hold 150k it would get damn closer to that many of both clubs were flying. In a bad year they still pull thought big numbers. Collingwood have had 2 good years in the last decade and a half.

How is that different then me saying that if Hawthorn played Essendon on Easter Monday a 60,000+ crowd probably would have showed up?

Don’t know but what is your point?

BTW I found the actual clash on the field to be a more entertaining clash - bias aside, then some of the ANZAC day clashes over the past 3-4 years...

Bias aside? You haven’t uttered a word in this thread with bias aside.

How is that different then if you gave the fixture to Hawthorn and Melbourne over a 2-3 year period and actively promoted the game in the greater media - like what the AFL does with Queens Birthday and ANZAC Day.:

It is different because it is Collingwood and not Hawthorn and Melbourne and that is exactly the point.

The AFL don’t promoter ANZAC Day to any meaningful extent at all.

 

[doppleganger]

Dopple you have just done yourself the greatest injustice. I would hang my head in shame at that response. You surely dont need reminding of your one premiership in half a century not to mention the dubious backroom record of Carlton over the past 20yrs. Essendon can certainly stand up above those other two with some credibility but the majority of all three teams premierships were won when the competition was a basket case weighted towards the established VFL clubs.

There isnt a better example of the counter to your response than Hawks and Kangas who are amongst the most succesful clubs of the past 30yrs when the competition has been regulated and guess what - comparatively small supporter bases throughout their dominant periods.

Thanks for coming

dont think u understand champ

pies were the dominant force for the first 50-70 years of the competition, they were always playing in finals and lead the won more flags than any other, it was a strange year if the pies weren't in the finals

the tight support was also born as the suburb Collingwood was looked down upon by its neightbours and the footy club was the pride of the entire suburb in the 20's and 30's

this dominance over many generations built up a ground swell of support that gets passed on through the generations, and even though they didn't win any flags they were still playing in GF's and finals right through the supposed down time in the 60's 70's and 80's

a similar story can be told for essendon and carlton, except they have also had more success of late, but the early and continued success is what created the massive supporter base

hawthorn and north were the laughing stock of the competition for half a century

having one decade of dominance and then going back to mediocrity doesn't build up a large supporter base or erase the history of being losers

it would take hawthorn and or north about 100 years of sustained success to catch up to the support that the likes of collingwood have

hawks and kangas are small clubs

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

Hmm, our crowds in 2005 in a year of bottom 4 were higher than 2003 which was a finals year.

Again, someone hanging their hat on a one-season stat.

Essendon last year were the 2nd most attended club last year, not bad for a club coming off 15 straight losses.

Irrelevant - my point was their crowds dropped and the arrogance went with it, momentarily.
Funny given between 30k - 35k is what we've drawn against Fremantle or West Coast at the dome in most games no matter what positon on the ladder we've been.

Thankyou! - where do people come from bagging the Melb V Hawks crowd when the sunday Essendon crowd was equally poor BUT thats ok cos thats the normal crowd for a Ess V Freo game
Their goes your bandwagon theory on that one.

Interesting given Essendon drew more against West Coast last year while sitting rock bottom than what Collingwood drew in the same position in 2005.

Another certain club in a similar position drew this on a sunny Sunday at the G:

Round 16, 2004
16 Hawthorn 1.3 4.4 5.8 7.11 (53)
3 Port Adel 4.3 7.9 11.12 15.15 (105)
Crowd: 11,682 at the Melbourne Cricket Ground

Yup that crowd was a disgrace. I wasnt in the country so cant even comment otherwise.

 

[Hawkk]

what actually is the biggest crowd that has attended a melb v hawks HA game??

65,000.

We've drawn 75,000 to an elimination final which from memory was the largest eliminiation final (until it was surpassed by Collingwood vs. Bulldogs last year) since the VFL turned into the AFL in 1990.

u say the average crowd is 40-45K so playing it on ANZAC would have a crowd of perhaps 55K

that simply doesn't generate the same revenue streams as a 90K pies v dons game

Probably around 65,000 but like the ANZAC Day 90,000 crowds that would require unique circumstances. Assuming the average ANZAC day crowd is around 75-80,000, a Hawks/Dees game would probably draw 55,000-57,000.

Having said that I never argued against Essendon/Collingwood sharing ANZAC day, I just made the observation that Easter Monday didn't have additional drawing power many people made it out to have in this thread.

With that considered, the 'half empty' crowd didn't deserve an 8 page thread on the main board.

 

[doppleganger]

With that considered, the 'half empty' crowd didn't deserve an 8 page thread on the main board.

not many threads do!

 

[Hawkk]

hawthorn and north were the laughing stock of the competition for half a century

having one decade of dominance and then going back to mediocrity doesn't build up a large supporter base or erase the history of being losers

it would take hawthorn and or north about 100 years of sustained success to catch up to the support that the likes of collingwood have

hawks and kangas are small clubs

In fairness you couldn't compare the Kangaroos and Hawthorn as one in the same.

I take your point that Essendon/Carlton/Collingwood are big clubs with rich vain of success over 100+ year periods, but by the same token I'd say that Hawthorn is a medium sized club by virtue of their success over the past 45 years.

Regardless, I've forgotten what we were arguing about...this thread is past its used by date IMO.

 

[dave_27]

Thankyou! - where do people come from bagging the Melb V Hawks crowd when the sunday Essendon crowd was equally poor BUT thats ok cos thats the normal crowd for a Ess V Freo game

Are you trying to compare 32k of Essendon supporters attending a game on Easter Sunday to a game between 2 MCG tenants on a PUBLIC holiday?

Yup that crowd was a disgrace. I wasnt in the country so cant even comment otherwise.

How convenient.

 

[Henry Jr]

Another thread hanging **** on Hawthorn started by an Essendon supporter.

Ah, when will the fascination end ...........................

 

[Hawkk]

Are you trying to compare 32k of Essendon supporters attending a game on Easter Sunday to a game between 2 MCG tenants on a PUBLIC holiday?

Since when did anyone work on Easter Sunday

From what I gathered he was comparing the amount of actual Essendon supporters at the game to the amount of actual Hawthorn supporters – minus Melbourne supporters.

Another thread hanging **** on Hawthorn started by an Essendon supporter.

Ah, when will the fascination end ...........................

What fascination, Essendon supporters don't care about Hawthorn

 

[doppleganger]

In fairness you couldn't compare the Kangaroos and Hawthorn as one in the same.

I take your point that Essendon/Carlton/Collingwood are big clubs with rich vain of success over 100+ year periods, but by the same token I'd say that Hawthorn is a medium sized club by virtue of their success over the past 45 years.

Regardless, I've forgotten what we were arguing about...this thread is past its used by date IMO.

reckon u can compare them

both entered in the same year

hawthorn had one succesful period say from 71 to 91 and apart from a couple of flourishes either side of that had been poor for the rest of their history

kangas had the 90's and the 70's and apart from those periods have been poor

both clubs looking outside of melbourne to survive, both in merger situations in the 90's

dons, pies, blues are the oppo, ie only had small periods of their history where they haven't been in finals and GF's