Game lost at the selection table?

[daveyboy3]

The loss of Hille cant be underestimated which is not sheedys fault. As we know Laycock can't ruck a full game, meaning Ryder has to ruck and Kepler has to play.. Travis Cloke smashed kepler and could have kicked 5.
Even though i thought Ryder did ok in the ruck the team would have been far better off with him in the backline and not Kepler.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

No, we rested Bolton when we could of played him in the VFL, and rested Houli, who has been super fit and playing the pre-season and the VFL season. He was/is match and physically fit.



No, Bolton offers us very little at best, and isnt part of the future. We still have to blood midfielders, ball winning ones specifically. We are still developing and a long way behind in this area.

It was touch and go weather Bolton would be worth more than a Houli, without even mentioning the fact Collingwood is all runners and we were already top heavy as it was, yet it seems Sheedy took the safer option in the more experienced Bolton, over the untried rookie when match balanced screemed for a hard running type.

We have a host of guys who we need to develop who will struggle to get games this season. Bolton should only be getting games when he specifically is required. He wasnt yesterday, and IMO was the real questionable selection. Bradley, I see the argument (not that I agree with it), but Bolton, got me stuffed why he played.

Had this same discussion with my old man - almost identical. I thought Bolton and Bradely were the right ins - I was wrong. Bradley came in as a back up ruckman but was a complete spud.
Bolton gave us nothing - his role was to run and he didn't. He should only play again if all our talls are injured.

Bradley is fast becoming a right off. Give him time, but geez, his disposal is poor, he panics and is indecisive whenever he gets the ball. Irrespective of his strenghts - both physical and overhead, he is a liability everytime he gets it. Needs to work hard this year to keep his spot.

We sould have played Houli - the outs we have had - in the end we were 1-2 big guys too many. IF bradley had have done his job in the ruck we were only 1 too many.

Not panic stations - but Sheedy is becoming conservative again - not a good sign. I hope the changes for the Hawks are the right ones.

 

[Jaymin]

The game wasn't lost at the selection table. The game was lost by the pies wanting it more on the field. They pressured us like we had pressured most teams this season.

Playing a couple of first gamers instead of Bradley and Bolton was not going to turn the game....

 

[Daytripper]

Bolton's job was to tag Swan.
He was side by side with him nearly all day.

Did a reasonable job under the circumstances I thought.

Bolton is far more AFL ready than Houli at the moment.

What is this obsession with Houli anyway ?
Hislop and Lonergan are a good way in front of him.

We've already got turnover merchants in Watson & Bradley.
We don't need another one, especially a youngster who needs more confidence.

Let him find his way with Bendigo, maybe give him a couple of games in the middle of the year and develop him.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

The game wasn't lost at the selection table. The game was lost by the pies wanting it more on the field. They pressured us like we had pressured most teams this season.

Playing a couple of first gamers instead of Bradley and Bolton was not going to turn the game....

We did lose through lack of pressure - but this had a lot to do with a lack of pace to pressure the opposition and the ability to pressure the opposition by moving the ball quickly.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Bolton's job was to tag Swan.
He was side by side with him nearly all day.

Did a reasonable job under the circumstances I thought.

Bolton is far more AFL ready than Houli at the moment.

What is this obsession with Houli anyway ?
Hislop and Lonergan are a good way in front of him.

We've already got turnover merchants in Watson & Bradley.
We don't need another one, especially a youngster who needs more confidence.

Let him find his way with Bendigo, maybe give him a couple of games in the middle of the year and develop him.

Houli hislop Lonergan - don't think anyone would mind with any of these three.

 

[DaSawx]

Houli hislop Lonergan - don't think anyone would mind with any of these three.

The coaches would have. Hislop and Lonergan would not have been fit enough, they needed a run on Sunday to keep up their fitness, obvioulsy they think Houli isn't ready

 

[stander]

Have spoken to a few people from outsdie of our club but involved in sports science and they say that we have hired a couple of the better young blokes in that area for our player managment program. Say what you like about Sheedy's coaching or selections but the player managment couldnt have been done any better. Players recover at different rates and injuries heal at different rates. Collingwood may have looked flat after the game on saturday but how do you know that all the injuries and physical efforts where exactly the same as ours. You dont!

Come off it Ant robus- we both know which of the medicos have been there since before Sheedy, doing the same old things. Looks like the pies have the best in the business because they looked a lot more worse for wear than our boys.

 

[stander]

The coaches would have. Hislop and Lonergan would not have been fit enough, they needed a run on Sunday to keep up their fitness, obvioulsy they think Houli isn't ready

Laycock wasn't fit enough either and he got a game.

 

[ant555]

what about gumbleton, houli, hislop, reimers? why werent they considered? why did they have to play so many talls?

Not sure where you could have put Gumbleton. He is not physically developed enough to ruck at AFL level. the only way he could have played was to havr Ryder in the ruck from the start and play Gumby as the third tall defender which is a role he hasnt been asked to play yet this year. It may have worked but it was a risk.

Riemers had played only two games of VFL footy before sunday and although i really think the kick has something he is still in the development stage and not really ready for seniors.

Houli could have played but it would have been in Bolt's spot not Bradleys.

Hislop , well there is a bit of a story going on with him. First of all he let himself down by getting reported/suspened in a practice match. It ment that he missed the first week of the VFL and after the minor set back he had in Feb he really needed match practive. There is no way they could have rested him on sunday for wednesdays game as he would have played only one game in the VFL. The other problem he has is altough he is playing well he has had a few lazy patch's in his games and training (match sims) where he hasnt pushed hard enough to get to contests. The coaching staff have been on him about it a bit so currently he is just a bit away from selection. he also didnt pull up 100% after sundays game. He is ok but was a bit scratchy at training yesterday.

 

[DaSawx]

Laycock wasn't fit enough either and he got a game.

we hardly had many options in the ruck

 

[stander]

we hardly had many options in the ruck

They didn't even try Bradley in the ruck, and he is supposed to be able to run all day. Lloyd and Lucas looked very sore- the player management staff were obviously instructed to pass them fit to play.

 

[GmeUP]

They didn't even try Bradley in the ruck, and he is supposed to be able to run all day. Lloyd and Lucas looked very sore- the player management staff were obviously instructed to pass them fit to play.

Bradley was the 2nd ruck for most of the first half, his poor effort and inablity to follow the game flow was the reason ryder was moved into the ruck.

 

[ant555]

Come off it Ant robus- we both know which of the medicos have been there since before Sheedy, doing the same old things. Looks like the pies have the best in the business because they looked a lot more worse for wear than our boys.

Well i guess you dont know as they have a few new guys putting together the training programs which icludes what rehab they are doing, diet, supliments and all that stuff. The physio's/medico's get a set program from these guys and it includes notes on what players to watch and where the physical testing of each player is at. Just because Quinn , Doc Reid and a few of the trainers are still around it doesnt mean we are not introducing new methods. The whole training and recovery process has been revamped this year and anyone who has seen this years training and compared it to previous years can see the difference.
Leaving us asdie for a minute it has been widly said from many clubs that it is harder to come up after games at the Dome than it is from any other venue. the interstate sides hate it as a venue becasue of the hardness. Micheal Voss virtually couldnt play there because he would end up missing a week or two of footy after it.
You say the Pies have the best in the business but you dont even know who has what. They didnt add the new people to our fitness department to stand around and hand out the water cups and i have heard from otuside sources that are involved with footy away from Essendon that we had done very well in picking up one in particular who is regarded as one of the best young minds in sports science.

At the end of the day Collingwood won becasue they where a better side. End of story.

 

[Strike Swiftly]

Ant, where is Richard Cole at? Do you think he will get a game this year? He was half decent at the pies. Has done nothing with us, injuries included.

 

[ant555]

Yep, but what about Houli?

I woulda thought in any other year, Houli would have been a moral for selection. It had a Sheedy type debut written all over it - young Muslim kid debuting on ANZAC day in the whole global climate rah rah. Plus we were too top heavy and needed run againt a Collingwood side full of runners.

The cynic in me is telling me Sheedy selected Bolton over him due to his own survivial, rather than the future of the club. But I will hold judgement on that for the time being.

You know what they could have rested Houli and used him yesterday instead of Bolts , that is a fair call. He was really the only other option. In hindsight it couldnt have turned out any worse. They went with exerience for the big day and it didnt work. It was not the only reason we lost. Houli alone even if he did play really well couldnt have covered for how poorly a few guys played or the fact that Pev and Stanton although reasonably good did not play at the same level as they did on Saturday. Im not 100% Houli would have been the guy for Anzac day. He can have problems with his disposal under pressure. it is the one weekness in his game at the moment but he couldnt have been any worse than Bolton , or Jetta in the previous weeks i guess.

 

[bomberrob]

the game was lost with selection for sure ive been followong essendon for over 20 years and have seen some ordinary players but mark bolton would have to be one of the poorest for decision making,the same as bradley.....in todays footy u need to move the ball quick with ure skills and also ure brain and both of them havent got that,i was so glad when we got rid of aaron hennerman and have been wishing that we would do the same with bolton....as someone said we went back to the ugly 06 footy yesterday it was horrible to watch......its only one game but plz sheeds dont play thos clowns again its so frustrating to see us go forward the first 4 weeks then go back yesterday......

 

[ant555]

Ant, where is Richard Cole at? Do you think he will get a game this year? He was half decent at the pies. Has done nothing with us, injuries included.

Very ordianry on Sunday and to be honest i dont see him in the side. He has worked pretty hard this year but his disposal by foot is still not flash. He would have to improve on his form at the moment to get many games . McVeigh, Slatts, McPhee ,NLM and Welsh are far better running half backs at the moment. You could probaly add Nash to that list if we can get him on the park.

 

[ant555]

the game was lost with selection for sure ive been followong essendon for over 20 years and have seen some ordinary players but mark bolton would have to be one of the poorest for decision making,the same as bradley.....in todays footy u need to move the ball quick with ure skills and also ure brain and both of them havent got that,i was so glad when we got rid of aaron hennerman and have been wishing that we would do the same with bolton....as someone said we went back to the ugly 06 footy yesterday it was horrible to watch......its only one game but plz sheeds dont play thos clowns again its so frustrating to see us go forward the first 4 weeks then go back yesterday......

How many times does it have to be explained that the combination of injury, the short break and players not being ready match fitness wise forced us into a bit of a corner.
If the game had of been tommorow im pretty sure the make up of the side may well have been very different. Some of the Bendigo guys from Sunday would have come under consideration and Winderlich and NLM would have been ready.

 

[Strike Swiftly]

Very ordianry on Sunday and to be honest i dont see him in the side. He has worked pretty hard this year but his disposal by foot is still not flash. He would have to improve on his form at the moment to get many games . McVeigh, Slatts, McPhee ,NLM and Welsh are far better running half backs at the moment. You could probaly add Nash to that list if we can get him on the park.

Thats disappointing. We have a lot of flankers/utilities and not much in the way of ruck stocks

 

[ant555]

Thats disappointing. We have a lot of flankers/utilities and not much in the way of ruck stocks

The ruck stocks are a problem and i persoanlly think our ruck coaching is a problem.
Hille is an average ruckman at best.
Laycock has that dirty word in potential. Injuries have cost him any chance to get a few games in a row so far. Being young and inexperienced he is going to look bad a lot of weeks.He has a lot of work to do to make it but needs to be given a chance this year.
Ryder looks like the future number one guy but isnt really physically ready for it yet.
Mckinnon is also in development stage.
We do have to ask some serios questions at the end of the year as far as rucking goes and that is what to do wit Hille who hasnt really gone on with it and do we need to look at our ruck coaching like we did with the skills and fitness at the end of last year.

 

[monty1104]

I dont know why everyone is talking Houli up. Sure he might have been the sentimental choice, but he is not ready for AFL. Ive seen 2 Bendigo games this year and he hasn't impressed me in either of them. Lonergan would definitly be ahead of him, Hislop will be after this week's game once he gets match fit, and Reimers is playing better than him, and is only behind him because his body is not fully developed.

I can see he does have some skill, but to me he seems like Daniel Wells, shows it in patches then is quiet. He still seems very indecisive and is actually too unselfish. A few times he was running in openish space towards goals and instead of kicking it long he handballed to a team mate who was running with him. With his foot skills, he should be kicking it more times than not.

 

[Smokin]

You know what they could have rested Houli and used him yesterday instead of Bolts , that is a fair call. He was really the only other option. In hindsight it couldnt have turned out any worse. They went with exerience for the big day and it didnt work. It was not the only reason we lost. Houli alone even if he did play really well couldnt have covered for how poorly a few guys played or the fact that Pev and Stanton although reasonably good did not play at the same level as they did on Saturday. Im not 100% Houli would have been the guy for Anzac day. He can have problems with his disposal under pressure. it is the one weekness in his game at the moment but he couldnt have been any worse than Bolton , or Jetta in the previous weeks i guess.

Yep, and it no way would Houli have made a difference, but if we are going to lose and put in a sub par performance, at least we would get something out of it.

We still need to bring midfielders through, and it may be hard this year for guys like Houli, Hislop, Lonergan etc to find many spots. But if we want someone like Houli to be next years Ryder (big improver), we need to give him experience when we can.

This week was a perfect time to do this, and Im still confused as to the thinking of using Bolton. We simply didnt need another tallish player, we needed another runner badly, and Houli ticked all the boxes as being ready to be called up.

Unless we are REALLY stuck in the talls area, I fail to see how Bolton should be anything but the absolute last resource. He is in no way a part of our future. We arent there yet, we are still developing. Hence why I am happy for Jetta to be persisted with throughout the year, not for the Jetta of today, but for the Jetta of tomorrow.

Bolton offers no tomorrow (nor much today).

 

[Astute Observer]

Yea, I always had the feeling we were going to put in a dead effort sooner or later, simply an accumulation of the season thus far. We had a big off season, hit the season hard with some great wins, had an epic with Carlton and perhaps the previous 4 weeks combined with the 4 day break with so many younger players together forced a very flat effort. Who knows.

They definitely were harder in the contests, and run the game out much better than us. After watching the replay last night, even the commentators mentioned it, before halftime we had certain players looking buggered.

Fletcher wasnt right, I didnt notice yesterday, but watching the replay he copped a knock early and really grimaced. He apparently wore a protective vest, and didnt have the same presence in the aerial contests as he usually does. Lloyd didnt seem to have his spark...it was just a very flat day across the board really.

It was a very flat effort on and off the ball. We sorta have to expect this a bit, as regardless of hype, we are still a developing side and will show inconsistency for a while yet.

SMOKIN - I agree. It was time for a flat spot at some stage. Lets not underestimate what the hard Telstra Dome takes out of legs (the first qtr and a half were tough against S.Kilda and quite fast)

 

[Smokin]

The ruck stocks are a problem and i persoanlly think our ruck coaching is a problem.

Great point, we seem so far behind in this area.

It frustrates me that teams with no Ruck divisions like Carlton can at least put together a competitive crew, we seem to not be able to even do that.