Game plan: 2015 vs 2016

[mcuzzy]

Been watching a lot of footage from 2015. Long story short, our gameplan looks pretty much the same as it does now, we just look slower, lazier and at times less skillful.

Differences:

2015: Played quickly, took risks to reap rewards
2016: Ignore the risk, hold onto it and go sideways or backwards, eventually kicking to an impossible contest. We went backwards and sideways in 2015, but we'd eventually find a leading player or someone would come close to receive and then play on to get the ball moving quickly, which brings me to my next point.

2015: Players making leads and moving all over the place
2016: Flat footed players everywhere, few sideways kick and then kick and hope down the line (should be last resort)

Feel free to add anything constructive. If you're on the sackdimma bandwagon then try not to bring it to this thread.

 

[JR82]

i prefer the way we played in '13. i recall we ran amok v West Coast in Perth & they had no answer to us at all..... did the same to the Hawks in '12 & '13 as well!

 

[Tigerbob68]

I've been watching games from 1995 & 1996 and that was a nice gameplan ... good defense, nice midfield group and Richo and B Gale waiting in the forward line for the ball to come down to them with some handy crumbers at their feet!!

I've turned a bit ECO this year (more than a bit actually) and haven't watched any games back in full except the Sydney one. I haven't actually watched last year's again all that much. I normally do a bit. My over-riding feeling this year has been 'stagnant'! You're right about going backwards being a good thing IF it creates the switch. At the moment it seems to just be the natural instinct to look behind to see who's there instead of just moving forward at all costs. Of course, if there's nothing up forward to go to this creates part of the problem. There doesn't often seem to be a real feeling of urgency in how we play. Yesterday at times there was some proactive forward thrust but all too often the turn and look backwards move happened. It seemed that against the Dogs we went with more of that manic forward movement but it only lasted a week.

I don't know if it's something to be laid squarely at Dimma's feet but it has to be partly down to how they're coached. Last year I found there were a lot of wins that didn't have any real 'wow' factor about them. By that I mean you didn't walk out talking to each other about how fantastic it was and really pumping your fists in the air. It was quite often a shrug at the siren, pleased to win but nothing to rave about. I don't buy into the argument that footy teams are there to entertain, they are there to win games and premierships. But our game is about pressure ... forward movement creates pressure, scoreboard pressure is the ultimate pressure. Our stagnant game style this year isn't putting any pressure on our opposition. But go back and watch the last quarter of the Sydney game and what do you see?????

 

[mcuzzy]

i prefer the way we played in '13. i recall we ran amok v West Coast in Perth & they had no answer to us at all..... did the same to the Hawks in '12 & '13 as well!

Eagles finished 13th that season, hardly something to brag about. We beat Freo in Perth in 2015 to end their undefeated streak.

We also beat Hawks by 3 goals in 2015, not long after they beat Sydney in Sydney by almost 100 points.

I've been watching games from 1995 & 1996 and that was a nice gameplan ... good defense, nice midfield group and Richo and B Gale waiting in the forward line for the ball to come down to them with some handy crumbers at their feet!!

I too liked that game style, but it's dated and we'd lose to even Brisbane at the G if we used it now.

 

[Bojangles17]

THe single biggest change in 12 months is our defence. What was once the rock of Gibraltar now regularly concedes 100 points a week. There's some minor personnel changes with Houli, chappy and batch no longer a part. The midfield plays a part and they are like Browns cows rather than corralling and locking down when we haven't got the pill. Our defence is shit and when you combine that with a limp forward line its little wonder we rarely win

 

[Tigerbob68]

We beat Freo in Perth in 2015 to end their undefeated streak.

We also beat Hawks by 3 goals in 2015, not long after they beat Sydney in Sydney by almost 100 points.

Don't forget beating Sydney in Sydney. The Freo and Sydney games had that manic attacking running style. Hawks was probably more defensive but THAT was a game you walked out of feeling pumped!! I remember my mate getting frantic and trying to find out how long was left late in the last and I told him to stop worrying about it and soak it up. The atmosphere in the last few minutes of that game was electric!!

I too liked that game style, but it's dated and we'd lose to even Brisbane at the G if we used it now.

Please let me live in my little 1995 cocoon and don't post ANYTHING that might spoil it
It certainly is a different game to watch when you go back that far. Certainly not sure we're better off (I mean all of us, not just Richmond) with modern footy! If we used that style with our current team we might lose to Brisbane but what if we had the '95 versions of Richo and Gale in the forward line with Lids, Cotch and Martin kicking it to them???
Ok, I'll shut up now. I'm depressing myself.

 

[JR82]

Eagles finished 13th that season, hardly something to brag about. We beat Freo in Perth in 2015 to end their undefeated streak.

We also beat Hawks by 3 goals in 2015, not long after they beat Sydney in Sydney by almost 100 points.



I too liked that game style, but it's dated and we'd lose to even Brisbane at the G if we used it now.

all true, i look at the way we played then, we took the game on & had some dare about us. now it's like we are trying to save the game without trying 1st to win it.

 

[Tigerbob68]

How much of a role does pure and simple confidence play in it? Confidence in yourself and your teammates. If the confidence has dropped, where does it come from? The coaching group? The elimination final losses? It's such a hard thing for us fans to really comment on. At times yesterday we looked like we were trying to link up through the midfield and run it forward quickly but didn't seem to be able to do it all day. Is that a confidence thing??

 

[NaturalDisaster]

How much of a role does pure and simple confidence play in it? Confidence in yourself and your teammates. If the confidence has dropped, where does it come from? The coaching group? The elimination final losses? It's such a hard thing for us fans to really comment on. At times yesterday we looked like we were trying to link up through the midfield and run it forward quickly but didn't seem to be able to do it all day. Is that a confidence thing??

Ive said it before, we are mentally shot. We have absolutely no confidence i ourselves sas individuals and as a team. our inability to take the game on and indesciveness with the ball highlights this. We must have the record number for umps blowing the whistle warning players to move the ball on the amount of time our players dont trust themselves 9or their team)

Honestly, people here say how they have emotionally checked out, i think the majority of our players emotionally checked out after last year. I don't think ive seen a team as flat after a win as we have this year. the only time we have perped up was after the Sydney win.Takw a look at our boys singing the song after a win, they are flat, and listless, the 'yellow and black' part for instance should be shouted and emphasised, but instead its been sung as flat as the recorded version. Take a look at hawthorn singing theirs, they sing with passion, i know the club song is trivial, but it does show a lot when your players are so apathetic after a win.

even jack, who is arguably our most passionate player seems checked out at times..

it is also shown in the players who have gone back, Bellis is not a useless player, he panics because he doesn't trust himself, Edwards, etc

it's concerning.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Been watching a lot of footage from 2015. Long story short, our gameplan looks pretty much the same as it does now, we just look slower, lazier and at times less skillful.

Differences:

2015: Played quickly, took risks to reap rewards
2016: Ignore the risk, hold onto it and go sideways or backwards, eventually kicking to an impossible contest. We went backwards and sideways in 2015, but we'd eventually find a leading player or someone would come close to receive and then play on to get the ball moving quickly, which brings me to my next point.

2015: Players making leads and moving all over the place
2016: Flat footed players everywhere, few sideways kick and then kick and hope down the line (should be last resort)

Feel free to add anything constructive. If you're on the sackdimma bandwagon then try not to bring it to this thread.

Dimma tells the group to put Brisbane away and they clock off instead, laziness.
Players having the ball at half back who then look up field and see stationary targets, laziness
And with laziness brings basic errors.

 

[Tigerbob68]

Ive said it before, we are mentally shot. We have absolutely no confidence i ourselves sas individuals and as a team. our inability to take the game on and indesciveness with the ball highlights this. We must have the record number for umps blowing the whistle warning players to move the ball on the amount of time our players dont trust themselves 9or their team)

Honestly, people here say how they have emotionally checked out, i think the majority of our players emotionally checked out after last year. I don't think ive seen a team as flat after a win as we have this year. the only time we have perped up was after the Sydney win.Takw a look at our boys singing the song after a win, they are flat, and listless, the 'yellow and black' part for instance should be shouted and emphasised, but instead its been sung as flat as the recorded version. Take a look at hawthorn singing theirs, they sing with passion, i know the club song is trivial, but it does show a lot when your players are so apathetic after a win.

even jack, who is arguably our most passionate player seems checked out at times..

it is also shown in the players who have gone back, Bellis is not a useless player, he panics because he doesn't trust himself, Edwards, etc

it's concerning.

Mentally shot is a good way to describe it and, again, where the hell does that come from? Is it actually fair to blame Hardwick and his game plan or are we fragile and hurt by the finals losses??
I found early in the year when i was going to matches that the players often look like they couldn't care less on the field. We all know that they don't go out there intending to lose and of course they care. But lack of confidence can make it look like they're not trying. Your example of players being hurried up by the umps is a good one. Players up forward are not making leads and running, as Mcuzzy said in the OP, and that flows all the way down the ground.
The song in the rooms can indeed be an indicator of where the team is at. I've been at 5 of our 7 wins, missed Sydney and Bombers last week, and there's been barely any real excitement. My mate went last week and said he was bored shitless all day. Gold Coast was a bit of fun but only because the last quarter was a bigger effort. We can only hope that our 'brains trust' has some kind of handle on where this is coming from and how to fix it.

 

[TheDarkKnighta]

When looking at gameplans, there are a lot of variables involved, but I have a theory that our style of play works well against other teams who like to "play their own way". You've probably heard Dimma and the players say things like:
"Once we started to play our way.."
"We couldn't get our game up and going.."
The best examples of these teams are Hawthorn, Port (although not so much this season) and the Bulldogs.

Dimma, coming from the school of Clarkson, would be very likely to implement this sort of plan. I can just see the football dept agreeing to a gameplan that is not reactionary and, when working, is exciting and attractive footy. After all, it's what Tigers fans want. Aggressive, skillful footy.

Unfortunately, a lot of other teams have worked out how to flood and squeeze us where it hurts most over the last two or so years. They have good gameday coaching and players who are capable of switching their gameplan when needed. They have on-field leaders who will direct players to shut down the opposition and pressure us with a loose man. They will sit on our relatively small mids and rove to our rucks if they're winning the hit outs.
All of this shuts down our free-flowing attacking style, and so we revert to maintaining possession and chipping sideways and backwards until something opens up and we can start flowing again.

Unfortunately, we have some nervous or slow decision makers who aren't willing to risk a kick down the middle or a 70/30 kick off the switch. I've banged on here before about how much this annoys me. You work hard to make the switch, your team-mates run to position and then you take too long to make a decision and chip it backwards again. The opposition mans-up. The crowd boos. Your team-mates get tired of running for nothing.

It's frustrating that we don't have an effective plan B or C. We seem to rarely employ a tagger effectively and don't work to exploit another team's weaknesses. Is youth or inability to blame? Hard to know unless you're a coach and can make judgements based on what you've instructed the players to do.

 

[mcuzzy]

The song being sung with limited enthusiasm is probably because almost all of our wins have been expected, some of them a bit embarassing because we couldn't defeat them by a bigger margin.

Sydney has been our only win worthy of really pumping the song out.

Getting over excited about beating Essendon, Carlton, Brisbane, Gold Coast and Freo is just embarassing.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

The song being sung with limited enthusiasm is probably because almost all of our wins have been expected, some of them a bit embarassing because we couldn't defeat them by a bigger margin.

Sydney has been our only win worthy of really pumping the song out.

Getting over excited about beating Essendon, Carlton, Brisbane, Gold Coast and Freo is just embarassing.

I'm not saying they should act as if they have one the grand final after every win, but at least have some passion even if the wins expected.

 

[Boston tiger]

Don't forget beating Sydney in Sydney. The Freo and Sydney games had that manic attacking running style. Hawks was probably more defensive but THAT was a game you walked out of feeling pumped!! I remember my mate getting frantic and trying to find out how long was left late in the last and I told him to stop worrying about it and soak it up. The atmosphere in the last few minutes of that game was electric!!




Please let me live in my little 1995 cocoon and don't post ANYTHING that might spoil it View attachment 269471
It certainly is a different game to watch when you go back that far. Certainly not sure we're better off (I mean all of us, not just Richmond) with modern footy! If we used that style with our current team we might lose to Brisbane but what if we had the '95 versions of Richo and Gale in the forward line with Lids, Cotch and Martin kicking it to them???
Ok, I'll shut up now. I'm depressing myself.

I don't think there is any out of date game plan. Just game plans that suit players.Teams that come up with their own win while the copy cats never get there. Someone will win a premiership similar to 95 and everyone will copy it.
That's my hunch anyway.

 

[Tigerbob68]

I don't think there is any out of date game plan. Just game plans that suit players.Teams that come up with their own win while the copy cats never get there. Someone will win a premiership similar to 95 and everyone will copy it.
That's my hunch anyway.

As far as '95/'96 goes, I only really mentioned it because I happen to be watching games from then just now. Obviously footy is played in a MUCH different way now. One of the biggest differences back then is the interchange, of course. There's rarely any change early in the game and sometimes no change in the first half. The 3rd interchange player sometimes doesn't come on until there's only a few minutes left!! The biggest thing is the 'stay at home' forward line. People often comment how the FF doesn't stay at home anymore and you really notice it at the game. When the ball is at one end there will be nobody in the other forward line. Everybody covers the whole ground and players have to sprint to position when there's a turnover. I'm not sure that anyone will ever try to revert back to the old days and leave players in the forward line to prop. I agree it's not so much 'out of date' but if something isn't going to work in modern footy they won't revert back to it, which I guess maybe just means the same thing!!!!

 

[Tango67]

There is generally 3 ways to start an offensive attach:

1. Create manic pressure inside fwd 50 to create a turnover either inside or just outside 50 however we don't have the speed or tenacity inside 50 to do this

2. Win the centre clearance with a dominant ruck and contested mids, we don't have a dominant ruck and our smaller mids can get shutdown too easily

3. From turnovers in the back half, this requires quick decision making and fast ball movement down the spine to get it forward to an open forward line before the opponent can flood back, we don't have instinctive players drilled to plAy on immediately when they create a turn over instead the pause wait and make sure they don't make a mistake or turnover but the opportunity is lost and the defenders get set causing our players to be manned up so our only option is to go backwards or sideways and do a switch.

Opposing clubs no now when you play the Tigers apply pressure and man up, our only trick us the switch across field so don't over commit to one side, force us to kick down the line to a contest and we are cooked.

 

[CHBenchwarmer]

The song being sung with limited enthusiasm is probably because almost all of our wins have been expected, some of them a bit embarassing because we couldn't defeat them by a bigger margin.

Sydney has been our only win worthy of really pumping the song out.

Getting over excited about beating Essendon, Carlton, Brisbane, Gold Coast and Freo is just embarassing.

Even the finals like atmosphere when Lloyd kicked that goal... that was something! Never sung yellow and black ever that loud before

 

[CHBenchwarmer]

I reckon we tried to beat Hawthorn on sunday, how we beat them last year on the Friday night - except they killed us everywhere on the ground

 

[Dunger]

One on one footy worked well for years and still does. Make every ball a contest, no loose players. Predictability works in one on one footy.

There is generally 3 ways to start an offensive attach:

1. Create manic pressure inside fwd 50 to create a turnover either inside or just outside 50 however we don't have the speed or tenacity inside 50 to do this

2. Win the centre clearance with a dominant ruck and contested mids, we don't have a dominant ruck and our smaller mids can get shutdown too easily

3. From turnovers in the back half, this requires quick decision making and fast ball movement down the spine to get it forward to an open forward line before the opponent can flood back, we don't have instinctive players drilled to plAy on immediately when they create a turn over instead the pause wait and make sure they don't make a mistake or turnover but the opportunity is lost and the defenders get set causing our players to be manned up so our only option is to go backwards or sideways and do a switch.

Opposing clubs no now when you play the Tigers apply pressure and man up, our only trick us the switch across field so don't over commit to one side, force us to kick down the line to a contest and we are cooked.

So we send more players down field to create an overlap, then no one gut runs back down inside 50 to get the ball so we bomb it to 3 hawks....

 

[Tango67]

interesting that our best player in the day in Martin made 0 tackles for the day, sort of sums up our mids ... the HS has an interesting article where we are ranked last for midfield pressure...

 

[JR82]

the amount of times we tried running the ball out of the back half & had only 3 opposition players on thier own to kick to is a massive issue, how the hell can we set up any attacking play like that?
there is a massive disconnect with the team atm & until that is sorted more of what we saw on sunday will follow.....
also, the amount of uncontested marks taken in Hawks fwd line doesn't help. we even failed to make a contest in the end...

 

[Ralll]

Been watching a lot of footage from 2015. Long story short, our gameplan looks pretty much the same as it does now, we just look slower, lazier and at times less skillful.

Differences:

2015: Played quickly, took risks to reap rewards
2016: Ignore the risk, hold onto it and go sideways or backwards, eventually kicking to an impossible contest. We went backwards and sideways in 2015, but we'd eventually find a leading player or someone would come close to receive and then play on to get the ball moving quickly, which brings me to my next point.

2015: Players making leads and moving all over the place
2016: Flat footed players everywhere, few sideways kick and then kick and hope down the line (should be last resort)

Feel free to add anything constructive. If you're on the sackdimma bandwagon then try not to bring it to this thread.

In 2015 we were just as poor in the losses to Footscray, Melbourne, and North etc. as we are now imo, the difference is this season we cant turn it around like previous years.

I think our confidence is shot as others have stated, we cant do anything right atm, when we try and run the ball we turn it over, when we try to kick the ball around we're flat footed and scared to take the responsibility. This all plays into our opp's hands and they gain confidence which makes the problems worse.

The coaches need to change things up imo, do what we did against Footscray for the rest of the season, attacking instinctual football with high defensive pressure, leave the controlled chess gameplan to another time.

 

[JR82]

whatever the gameplan is, we need a new one next year based on the side we are planning to put out on the park. try taking the game on & applying pressure as we did against the Dogs & we'll be a top side no problem.

 

[Crumpet_avenger]

Watchen that shit today just proves dimwit is a ****wit. Who cares what it costs

He has no idea