Roast Geelong can't develop young players

[FlowersByIrene]

Coleman - our current full forward
Brownlow - Gary Ablett or Jimmy Bartel
All Australian - Cameron Guthrie
Rising Star winner - Joel Selwood
Rising Star runner-up - Sam de Koning from 2 years ago.

3 of these awards can only be won by a single player per year barring a tie. In theory they should as an average be won once every 18 years, and if you are rarely if ever given access to the very top end of the draft, you should rarely if ever have access to those that win those sorts of awards. Carlton have had a decade and a half of access to the top end of the draft. Wow, well done

We have a rising star nominee from two rounds ago, and the runner up in the

Not sure what the 18 year old thing really has to do with anything. How is developing an 18 year old superstar with a top 5 pick any more meritorious than turning a rookie pick of a 20 year old track athlete into an All Australian who can play any position on the field?
Wow, well done.
Not really sure what your point is.

So a bunch of 30 year olds and Sam DeKoning, right.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Come on now. Just because we couldn't have got Walsh, Weitering, Cripps or McKay makes no difference. Carlton's recruiting has been brilliant!

And we could've got Charlie Curnow. We had the pick before he went in the draft! What did we do with it? Brought in some spud named Patrick Dangerfield. What were we thinking?

Pretty bad decision in hindsight.

 

[STPer18]

Pretty bad decision in hindsight.

 

[PhatBoy]

Pretty bad decision in hindsight.

Yes with our 1 more premiership than Carlton have won in the time since.

 

[PhatBoy]

So a bunch of 30 year olds and Sam DeKoning, right.

What the f*** does it matter. You’re the one bragging at how amazing you are at developing checks list fistfuls of high draft picks season after season into one preliminary final appearance and 0 top four home and away finishes.

Well done, merry f**kin Christmas

 

[PhatBoy]

In the time between your most recent preliminary final and your previous one, Geelong has:

• 4 premierships
• 6 grand finals
• 7 preliminary finals - so 13 preliminary finals overall
• 18 finals campaigns
• 4 minor premierships

Not sure we’ve had quite the issue developing good footballers - or the need to worry about it - that you think we have.

 

[g_TRAIN]

They can and do.

Just have not had a lot come through the system to develop

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Catastrophe!]

Pretty bad decision in hindsight.

Mate, got a lot of time for you, but you're having a 'mare in here right now. We haven't had access to the same talent that you have, because we didn't spend the last 20 years being so awful that we went through 5 coaches and were handed 1st round picks like candy.

I illustrated earlier how 10 of our Premiership players were drafted by Geelong, and using ridiculously s**t picks. It's a lot harder to develop very late picks who are usually early on in their development, than it is to develop out and out superstars who are a consensus choice to go high in the draft.

Don't you think it takes more development to get a bunch of rookies and no names to be Premiership players, than it does to get consensus elite kids there? We've done it over and over again, throughout the years. We've made 6 Grand Finals, and won 4 flags, and it's not just our 'mature age picks/trade ins' that have got us there. As I demonstrated, all of J. Henry, Zuthrie, Close, O'Connor, Blicavs, Close, Miers, Stewart, Kolo, Bews, T. Atkins, were taken with Pick 40 or lower, have won a flag, have won B+F's or placed on the podium, and played at least 100 games and will play out their careers with us. You've had Top 10 pick after Top 10 pick that you've blown over the last decade, and had 1 elite draft in 2015 with a ridiculous draft hand that you nailed every pick, and a lay down misere in 2018 picking Walsh.

We've had one Top 10 draft pick since 2006. The situations are completely different. We've consistently contended, and had lack of access to elite talent, whilst you haven't achieved a thing in 29 years with all the elite talent you've had come through your doors. We've done it in various different ways, whilst also unearthing talent at the back end of the draft - along with mature agers/FA and trading in the odd superstar here and there. If you had the access we had to talent that we did, you would've delisted every last one of them. With all due respect, you're not even in the same stratosphere when it comes to talent development as a team like us. See Ollie Dempsey as the latest example with a rising star nom, alongside SDK going runner up in his second year, Holmes being the highest rated wingman in the second half of the year in '22 and Miers being the leading assist player in history, alongside a runner up B+F.

What have Dow, O'Brien, SPS, Z. Fisher, Durdin, J. Carroll, J. Motlop, O. Hollands, Cowan, Binns, Kemp or Philp achieved as first and second round picks? Since 2015 Walsh and TDK are it. Maybe O'Hollands hits that next level, and J. Carroll is finally getting exposure, but you've done nothing with your players, in a far less successful side. Just absurd for you to go at us and say we can't develop talent, when the only talent you have developed/has achieved anything, was that which was already at the elite end. Try it with 50 rookie/3rd round picks, and see how you go

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Pretty bad decision in hindsight.

Now I know you’re just trolling with this comment.

 

[damochandler]

The kid who got the rising star nom last week seems to go alright

 

[PhatBoy]

The kid who got the rising star nom last week seems to go alright

Taken in the rookie draft so obviously much more high-end than the ones who snuck under the guard of everybody in the top 10 of the national draft like the Blues have been secretly developing but yes he looks handy so far

 

[demondavey]

Holmes, De Koning and Henry yes. but dempsey, Knevitt, Bruhn , clark, Conway and Neale all completely unproven. bruhn has shown a tad but nothing elite.
I think because Geelong haven't had to rebuild because they've been a force for so long that their fans actually don't know what elite juniors are. As a dees fan, we had many promising juniors that played promising footy for a season or two only to fizzle out of the system.

Comparing Melbourne’s culture to Geelong’s and our professional development is like comparing apples to oranges. Apples being Melbourne which are total junk and oranges being incredibly good.

We’ve improved of course but we burnt many a career.

 

[demondavey]

I tend to get the feeling Geelong will be fine. It’s now two years since the flag and they’ve just gone and beaten Adelaide on the road. I’d much rather be a Geelong supporter if I wanted to support a developing team than most others.

 

[danster168]

Comparing Melbourne’s culture to Geelong’s and our professional development is like comparing apples to oranges. Apples being Melbourne which are total junk and oranges being incredibly good.

We’ve improved of course but we burnt many a career.

we're not talking about culture...

 

[eclipse]

Name the last player drafted as an 18 year old to Geelong that won a brownlow, won a coleman won a rising star or has made All Australian.

There are numerous at Carlton.

Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, McKay, Weitering etc etc.

Laughable post.

Team game. Tell me the last player Carlton’s drafted outside the first round that has done any of the above.

 

[My Tilly]

Team game. Tell me the last player Carlton’s drafted outside the first round that has done any of the above.

Go read the Tom De Koning trade thread. Half the Carlton supporter base wanted him gone early last year.
They are a bizarre supporter base. Literally won't give kids a couple of years to prove themselves.

 

[Cleansweep17]

They’ve been good but developing young players hasn’t been what’s kept them up for so long.

They are really good at trading in players and Chris’s Scott is a really good coach.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Let's do a simple comparison and list the players at Geelong and Carlton who have played 40+ games but who didn't come from other clubs and weren't top 15 picks.

Carlton - Silvagni, Tom De Koning, Cottrell, Cunningham, Owies

Geelong - Hawkins, Duncan, Blicavs, C Guthrie, Kolodjashnij, Bews, Stewart, Parfitt, J Henry, O'Connor, Miers, Atkins, Z Guthrie, Close, Holmes, Sam De Koning

Yeah Geelong can't develop players

Irene the Florist struggling to combat this mic drop.

 

[Mr Meow]

Irene the Florist struggling to combat this mic drop.

But a few weren't 18!

Even reducing it to 18 year olds (at time of drafting) only, Geelong has a better list of successes outside the top 15.

Geelong has had a number of first round recruiting errors but has made up for it everywhere else, essentially.

 

[DanA]

They’ve been good but developing young players hasn’t been what’s kept them up for so long.

They are really good at trading in players and Chris’s Scott is a really good coach.

There’s some truth to this in that we’ve recruited some great established players but we’ve been solid across the board. I’d argue plucking state league re-treads has been our greatest success. It started with Podsiadly, then Stewart, Kelly, Atkins, and more recently Stengle. We’ve also found some good converts from other sports with the Irish lads, Blicavs, and now Dempsey. But there’s been nothing wrong with our young player development.

Our biggest problems for developing young players have been a product of our success. We’ve had limited access to top picks, and limited opportunity available because talented veterans are in their way. You can’t find Ratugolea and De Koning until Henderson and Harry Taylor get out of their way. Similarly we haven’t developed mids with Danger, Selwood, Guthrie, Atkins, and Blicavs holding the spots. No surprise that now spots opening up, that young players are stepping up.

 

[Cleansweep17]

There’s some truth to this in that we’ve recruited some great established players but we’ve been solid across the board. I’d argue plucking state league re-treads has been our greatest success. It started with Podsiadly, then Stewart, Kelly, Atkins, and more recently Stengle. We’ve also found some good converts from other sports with the Irish lads, Blicavs, and now Dempsey. But there’s been nothing wrong with our young player development.

Our biggest problems for developing young players have been a product of our success. We’ve had limited access to top picks, and limited opportunity available because talented veterans are in their way. You can’t find Ratugolea and De Koning until Henderson and Harry Taylor get out of their way. Similarly we haven’t developed mids with Danger, Selwood, Guthrie, Atkins, and Blicavs holding the spots. No surprise that now spots opening up, that young players are stepping up.

If you guys don’t win the flag this year do you think you should have another crack at it in 2025 or have a bit of a list cull to develop the younger players?

Surely Hawkins, Tuohy and Co don’t need to go around again.

 

[DanA]

If you guys don’t win the flag this year do you think you should have another crack at it in 2025 or have a bit of a list cull to develop the younger players?

Surely Hawkins, Tuohy and Co don’t need to go around again.

Not a cull, if anything we need to spread it out. Ideally it’s only Touhy and Duncan at the end of the year and Hawkins/Danger give us one or two more. We had a soft landing with the 2007 premiership team, hopefully that can be replicated.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Not a cull, if anything we need to spread it out. Ideally it’s only Touhy and Duncan at the end of the year and Hawkins/Danger give us one or two more. We had a soft landing with the 2007 premiership team, hopefully that can be replicated.

Only like 2 a year? I might be mistaken but don’t you have like 10-11 over 30s in your best 22? If you have the time which players are they?

 

[Mr Meow]

Only like 2 a year? I might be mistaken but don’t you have like 10-11 over 30s in your best 22? If you have the time which players are they?

You're mistaken.

We have 8 over 30s locked in the best 22. But the older ones are more likely 17-20 games than the full 23.

Dangerfield
Hawkins
Duncan
Stanley
Blicavs
C.Guthrie (if he gets back)
Stewart
Cameron


Then a couple who are handy depth (Rohan (usually injured) + Tuohy). In any given week at least 2 or 3 are injured/managed.

So far this season we have rolled with 8, 7 and 6 (expected) over 30s in our line ups. So that leaves 15-17 spots for under 30s each week. That number will bump up by one or two each season with retirements.

 

[DanA]

Only like 2 a year? I might be mistaken but don’t you have like 10-11 over 30s in your best 22? If you have the time which players are they?

It’s more than two it’s just some don’t matter nearly as much as others. If Rohan, Touhy, Duncan, Stanley, and Bews retire at years end it’s not a big loss. Hawkins, and Danger are the gut punches we can’t yet absorb. I don’t think Stewart, Blicavs, or Cameron are contemplating retirement just yet.