Geelong rorting the system

[Leeda]

Did buddy know or care?there is more of a just really cool letting go...

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Just funny that part about how you never quote figures about us being the best performed travelling team across two decades

‘Hey everybody. Come and see how many excuses I can make.’

Just accept the facts of the situation instead of saying the ground hasn't changed.
Face it, it's unfit for professional football.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Just funny that part about how you never quote figures about us being the best performed travelling team across two decades

‘Hey everybody. Come and see how many excuses I can make.’

What does 2 decades have to do with it? Cats have been playing home games there since 1940's. I would bet they have not been the strongest performed away team over that period, & they definitely have not been near the strongest performer in finals. But they have performed more strongly than any team on their current home ground.

I don't see where excuses come into that.

Geelong by the way has a 44.7% all time away game winning record.

Richmond for eg is around 44% as well. Collingwood 55%. Carlton 51%. Essendon 50%. Hawks 42%. Demons 40%.

Cats has by far the greatest disparity between all time home win% at current home ground & away venue win %.

 

[PhatBoy]

Just accept the facts of the situation instead of saying the ground hasn't changed.
Face it, it's unfit for professional football.

Lolllll says who? The 80 years worth of players who’ve been playing there?

The guys who get paid a fortune to spend their days kicking and marking a ball on patches of grass who you think inexplicably can’t navigate some turf? No no it’s a great point

Oh that’s right, it’s you - the guy who thinks the word ‘stand’ is too much for professional athletes to cope with. The guy who thinks a team hosting games at their own ground is unfair.

‘Kick it to me, kick it to me!!!’
‘Where? Where are you? I can’t see you amidst all these less even curves around the boundaries!!’
‘You f**king what?!?!’
‘You heard me!’
‘Just run then’
‘Run where!’
‘Run forward!’
‘Forward!’
‘Which way are we going again?’
‘To the northern end d**khead!’
‘Which way’s north?’
‘Oh for f**ks sake give me the ball… DONT THROW IT YOU DUMB C**T.’
‘You asked me to give it to you.’
‘f**ken great.’
‘That’s time fellas.’

 

[Meteoric Rise]

How is playing home games - and not even the full quota of designated home games - on your home ground in your city rorting the system? Geelong FC rightfully stood their when the AFL tried to relocate the club to Docklands, and now GMHBA is the third biggest AFL stadium in Victoria behind MCG and Docklands, capacity wise.

How is this rorting?

It is a fair question.

The rort comes from the disparity in ratio of games played on similarly shaped grounds compared to their opponents at the venue.

Cats train f/t there. They play 9 games per year, now 10 it seems, more or less 40% of all games they play. Their average opponent would play about 2% of all their matches there. And if you grouped the ground with say Adelaide Oval as long narrow grounds(KP is quite radical even when compared to AO) you still have a disparity of around 43% of games played by Cats & only roughly 4% by their average opponent.

 

[PhatBoy]

What does 2 decades have to do with it? Cats have been playing home games there since 1940's. I would bet they have not been the strongest performed away team over that period, & they definitely have not been near the strongest performer in finals. But they have performed more strongly than any team on their current home ground.

I don't see where excuses come into that.

Geelong by the way has a 44.7% all time away game winning record.

Richmond for eg is around 44% as well. Collingwood 55%. Carlton 51%. Essendon 50%. Hawks 42%. Demons 40%.

Cats has by far the greatest disparity between all time home win% at current home ground & away venue win %.

So? If it’s such an advantage, tell us to stop winning matches when we play elsewhere and we will have a meaningful conversation about it.

 

[PhatBoy]

It is a fair question.

The rort comes from the disparity in ratio of games played on similarly shaped grounds compared to their opponents at the venue.

Cats train f/t there. They play 9 games per year, now 10 it seems, more or less 40% of all games they play. Their average opponent would play about 2% of all their matches there. And if you grouped the ground with say Adelaide Oval as long narrow grounds(KP is quite radical even when compared to AO) you still have a disparity of around 43% of games played by Cats & only roughly 4% by their average opponent.

So f**king what. Tell the other teams to train better for it and man up.

 

[Sttew]

It is a fair question.

The rort comes from the disparity in ratio of games played on similarly shaped grounds compared to their opponents at the venue.

Cats train f/t there. They play 9 games per year, now 10 it seems, more or less 40% of all games they play. Their average opponent would play about 2% of all their matches there. And if you grouped the ground with say Adelaide Oval as long narrow grounds(KP is quite radical even when compared to AO) you still have a disparity of around 43% of games played by Cats & only roughly 4% by their average opponent.

Do you complain about Carrara, or GWS's ground?

One of the appealing features of AFL is that ground dimensions are not uniform. Same applies to cricket grounds. No coincidence that AFL was developed as a winter game for cricketers.

FYI, Geelong also trains at Deakin University. Over Summer the ground at Kardinia Park is off limits because of cricket.

Most teams now put out cones on their grounds to replicate the playing arena at Geelong.

How is it that teams like Swans, Freo and GWS play GMHBA really well?

 

[Leeda]

Lolllll says who? The 80 years worth of players who’ve been playing there?

The guys who get paid a fortune to spend their days kicking and marking a ball on patches of grass who you think inexplicably can’t navigate some turf? No no it’s a great point

Oh that’s right, it’s you - the guy who thinks the word ‘stand’ is too much for professional athletes to cope with. The guy who thinks a team hosting games at their own ground is unfair.

‘Kick it to me, kick it to me!!!’
‘Where? Where are you? I can’t see you amidst all these less even curves around the boundaries!!’
‘You f**king what?!?!’
‘You heard me!’
‘Just run then’
‘Run where!’
‘Run forward!’
‘Forward!’
‘Which way are we going again?’
‘To the northern end d**khead!’
‘Which way’s north?’
‘Oh for f**ks sake give me the ball… DONT THROW IT YOU DUMB C**T.’
‘You asked me to give it to you.’
‘f**ken great.’
‘That’s time fellas.’

Nope park Vaseline....ya self..

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Do you complain about Carrara, or GWS's ground?

One of the appealing features of AFL is that ground dimensions are not uniform. Same applies to cricket grounds. No coincidence that AFL was developed as a winter game for cricketers.

FYI, Geelong also trains at Deakin University. Over Summer the ground at Kardinia Park is off limits because of cricket.

Why would anyone consider Carrara or the Sydney Showgrounds to be noteworthy as home venues? They are by orders of magnitude more standard in shape & size for AFL venues when compared to the Cost Zoo.

Geelong spend more than sufficient time training on their ground to be more familiar with it than most other clubs get be be with their home grounds, & by a long distance.

If there were 18 clubs with 18 vastly different sized & shaped grounds, & they all got to train regularly on their home grounds, then your point would hold. But this is not the case. Geelong's ground is by far the biggest size and shape outlier, and they would be in the top 3 in the AFL for training access to the ground they play almost all their home games on.

It is a very sigificant h&a season advantage, clearly.

 

[PhatBoy]

Why would anyone consider Carrara or the Sydney Showgrounds to be noteworthy as home venues? They are by orders of magnitude more standard in shape & size for AFL venues when compared to the Cost Zoo.

Geelong spend more than sufficient time training on their ground to be more familiar with it than most other clubs get be be with their home grounds, & by a long distance.

If there were 18 clubs with 18 vastly different sized & shaped grounds, & they all got to train regularly on their home grounds, then your point would hold. But this is not the case. Geelong's ground is by far the biggest size and shape outlier, and they would be in the top 3 in the AFL for training access to the ground they play almost all their home games on.

It is a very sigificant h&a season advantage, clearly.

Is it? Or are you just trying to find something that isn’t there because you refuse to grow a knob and accept that a team you detest has simply played to a very high level wherever they’ve played over a long period of time? It’s funny how every other - or most other - fan, or group of fans, can cope with their own team’s ups and downs and the successes of other teams but you, at your age, simply haven’t developed these mechanisms yet

 

[Chronz]

Not too late for the AFL to investigate. Are you onto it Aristotle Pickett ?

He's on the phone with the CFL right now.

 

[Purple Suit]

Shows a picture that clearly establishes changes relevant to the conversation then tries to claim it hasn't changed. Fmd.

But this is beside the point the ground is a huge outlier in shape and always has been. This is why over time Geelong on average all time have outscored their opponents at the venue by 18 points per match, scoring around 23% more per game there than their opponents on average, & wins 68% of their games there all time.

Current main home ground all time records:

*home ground defined as the ground the team plays the most games on per year on average, only the club's home games at the ground are counted.

Geelong - KP - win% 68% - ave margin - +18 points
Port Adelaide - AO - 67% - +19 points
Essendon - MCG - 64% - +9 points
Hawthorn - MCG - win% 61% - +9 points
Sydney - SCG - 60% - +12 points
GWS - Showgrounds - 60% - +5 points
Collingwood - MCG - 58% - +8 points
Richmond - MCG - 58% - +4 points
Fremantle - Perth Stad - 58% - +3 points
St Kilda - Docklands - 56% - +5 points
Adelaide - AO - 54% - +14 points
Brisbane - Gabba - 53% - +8 points
Melbourne - MCG - 53% - +3 points
Eagles - Perth Stad - 51% - -4 points
Bulldogs - Docklands - 51% - +2 points
North - Docklands - 47% - -1 point
Carlton - MCG - 45% - -5 points
Suns - Carrara - 40% - -10 points


Cats have been playing home games there since the 1940's from memory. In all that time they have managed the highest winning % in home games of any team at their current main home ground. They have the 2nd highest average points surplus per game, narrowly behind Port Adelaide at AO.

Interesting the 3 highest home game points surpluses per match, & 2 of the 3 highest game winning percentages belong to the teams who play home games on the least standard shaped grounds - the long thin Adelaide Oval & the longer & thinner Kardiia Park.

Playing home games at KP has clearly been a big advantage to Geelong, because they are the best performed at their home ground, but far from the best performed club overall since they have been playing home games there.

The Costa Zoo hga is the biggest rort in the AFL.

They have also lost 100% of finals at KP.

So what do the AFL do, not allow them to play there.....hmmmm. I wonder why?

 

[PhatBoy]

They have also lost 100% of finals at KP.

So what do the AFL do, not allow them to play there.....hmmmm. I wonder why?

It was coz we accidentally trained at the wrong ground that week appaz.

Owed little if anything to Fremantle completely outplaying us

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Is it? Or are you just trying to find something that isn’t there because you refuse to grow a knob and accept that a team you detest has simply played to a very high level wherever they’ve played over a long period of time? It’s funny how every other - or most other - fan, or group of fans, can cope with their own team’s ups and downs and the successes of other teams but you, at your age, simply haven’t developed these mechanisms yet

I have no trouble admitting Geelong have performed consistently well over the recent era.


It is you who has trouble admitting the Cats home ground is adding(by my reasonable estimation) around 2 wins differential per season. Ie 1 more win, 1 less loss.

2024 that drops them 3rd to 6th on the ladder for eg.
2023 drop 12th to 14th
2022 Still win flag - clear best team
2021 drop 3rd to 5th
2020 n/a
2019 1st to 3rd
2018 8th to still 8th
2017 2nd to 3rd or 4th
2016 2nd to 4th

Where they finished the h & a seasons v where they would have finished imo if their home ground was Docklands or MCG.

3, 12, 1, 3, 1, 8, 2, 2

v

6, 14, 1, 5, 3, 8, 3/4, 4

It is a big difference, especially in terms of home finals.

So they go from "revered for making top 4 consistently" to mainly hovering outside the top 4. And to be fair, their finals performances reflect this perfectly.

 

[PhatBoy]

I have no trouble admitting Geelong have performed consistently well over the recent era.


It is you who has trouble admitting the Cats home ground is adding(by my reasonable estimation) around 2 wins differential per season. Ie 1 more win, 1 less loss.

2024 that drops them 3rd to 6th on the ladder for eg.
2023 drop 12th to 14th
2022 Still win flag - clear best team
2021 drop 3rd to 5th
2020 n/a
2019 1st to 3rd
2018 8th to still 8th
2017 2nd to 3rd or 4th
2016 2nd to 4th

Where they finished the h & a seasons v where they would have finished imo if their home ground was Docklands or MCG.

3, 12, 1, 3, 1, 8, 2, 2

v

6, 14, 1, 5, 3, 8, 3/4, 4

It is a big difference, especially in terms of home finals.

So they go from "revered for making top 4 cosistently" to mainly hovering outside the top 4. And to be fair, their finals performances reflect this perfectly.

But it doesn’t.

You have literally no proof of any of that. In 2024 we had the same record at home as we did everywhere else but you are trying to claim our percentage if we had less games at home would have dropped

Our record for the home and away season was 66 per cent. Our record at home was 66 per cent.

You are literally just plucking figures out of the air.

AND you are ignoring the fact that all the games we host there are against interstate teams who we would have a strong advantage over anyway if we hosted them in Melbourne, and frequently against the smaller Melbourne clubs and when we DO host the bigger ones, it’s generally when they are going shithouse ie. right now we get to host you because you’re playing like busted arses so chances are we beat you at the MCG anyway.

Throwing darts at a board and claiming ‘I made this cool mathematical formula with no holes’ doesn’t make you Oppenheimer. Suck it up, and grow a set of balls. Grow up you sad old man

 

[Meteoric Rise]

But it doesn’t.

You have literally no proof of any of that. In 2024 we had the same record at home as we did everywhere else but you are trying to claim our percentage if we had less games at home would have dropped

Our record for the home and away season was 66 per cent. Our record at home was 66 per cent.

You are literally just plucking figures out of the air.

AND you are ignoring the fact that all the games we host there are against interstate teams who we would have a strong advantage over anyway if we hosted them in Melbourne, and frequently against the smaller Melbourne clubs and when we DO host the bigger ones, it’s generally when they are going shithouse ie. right now we get to host you because you’re playing like busted arses so chances are we beat you at the MCG anyway.

Throwing darts at a board and claiming ‘I made this cool mathematical formula with no holes’ doesn’t make you Oppenheimer. Suck it up, and grow a set of balls. Grow up you sad old man

You are just being your usual toxic self now.

Supporters of 17 other clubs believe Geelong has a disproportionate HGA. Only some Cats supporters claim this is not true. The figure I gave is an average projected figure, of course it will be subject to season by season variance.

Of course there is no way of proving my projections beyond doubt, that is why I said they were imo. But your poiting to this lack of proof does nothing for your side of the argument, because it applies equally to what you are claiming. Even over the last 20 years Geelog has either the biggest or near enough differential between home game win % & away game win %.

HGA is accepted amongst people who apply scientific methods to working it out to derive from 2 sources.

1. Home crowd advantage(support for players, influece on umps etc.) Geelong in their home games would have one of the stronger benefits from this factor in the AFL, due to fewer opposition supporters attending than at most other home grounds.

2. Idiosyncrasies of the venue. This benefit is thought to be almost egligible at most grounds, because the differences between them are not that great. Obviously KP is the biggest outlier in terms of shape & size. So Geelong would clearly benefit the most in the competition from this factor.

To argue Geelong doesn't therefore have the greatest HGA in the AFL would seem to put you in denial of something that is obviously true. So I will leave you to get on with your tenacious denying and bid you good evening.

 

[PhatBoy]

You are just being your usual toxic self now.

Supporters of 17 other clubs believe Geelong has a disproportionate HGA. Only some Cats supporters claim this is not true. The figure I gave is an average projected figure, of course it will be subject to season by season variance.

Of course there is no way of proving my projections beyond doubt, that is why I said they were imo. But your poiting to this lack of proof does nothing for your side of the argument, because it applies equally to what you are claiming. Even over the last 20 years Geelog has either the biggest or near enough differential between home game win % & away game win %.

HGA is accepted amongst people who apply scientific methods to working it out to derive from 2 sources.

1. Home crowd advantage(support for players, influece on umps etc.) Geelong in their home games would have one of the stronger benefits from this factor in the AFL, due to fewer opposition supporters attending than at most other home grounds.

2. Idiosyncrasies of the venue. This benefit is thought to be almost egligible at most grounds, because the differences between them are not that great. Obviously KP is the biggest outlier in terms of shape & size. So Geelong would clearly benefit the most in the competition from this factor.

To argue Geelong doesn't therefore have the greatest HGA in the AFL would seem to put you in denial of something that is obviously true. So I will leave you to get on with your tenacious denying and bid you good evening.

Bid me whatever you want.

Using a ‘scientific method’ and ignoring the fact that a team has a completely different set of teams that it hosts and then claiming it only has a good home record because of the ground shape is not what I’d call science.

‘hey you win because you train there and it has a weird shape.’

‘Buuuuut…. We get scheduled to host teams we’d probably be expected to beat most of the time if we hosted them in Melbourne anyway. Interstate sides, poorly performing Melbourne teams…. So that doesn’t make a lot of sense. The other teams’ home ground percentages are based around hosting everyone because that’s who they host: everyone. And anyway, how do you explain that we outperform all the other teams on the road?’

‘Science, but.’

 

[Sttew]

Supporters of 17 other clubs believe Geelong has a disproportionate HGA. Only some Cats supporters claim this is not true. The figure I gave is an average projected figure, of course it will be subject to season by season variance.

Your post is unintentionally funny.

Richmond may not have won the 2017 GF if its first final HADN'T been played at the MCG, your home ground. You will recall Geelong finished 2nd on the H&A ladder...

So don't go talking about disproportionate HGA's.

Also, Geelong has played at Kardinia Park for 81 years. Only in recent years do you complain about a disproportionate HGA. I wonder why?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Your post is unintentionally funny.

Richmond probably would not have won the 2017 GF if its first final hadn't been played at the MCG, your home ground. You will recall Geelong finished 2nd on the H&A ladder...

So don't go talking about disproportionate HGA's. Geelong has played at Kardinia Park for 81 years!!!

Yep because teams who smash their way through 3 finals with a minimum winning margin of 6 goals & a percentage of 180% probably wouldn't have won those games at a different venue.

Cats fans are in tatters now over this. First they argue Cats have no discernible home ground advantage at a weird shaped outlier ground their average oppenent plays less than 2% of their games on & Cats train on it full time. Then here we are, seamlessly switching to Richmond has at least a 9 goal home advantage playing at the MCG against Geelong - who plays aroud 35% of their matches there, including a couple of home games per season.

And you say my post is unintentionally funny. You are a mess.

 

[Sttew]

Yep because teams who smash their way through 3 finals with a minimum winning margin of 6 goals & a percentage of 180% probably wouldn't have won those games at a different venue.

Cats fans are in tatters now over this. First they argue Cats have no discernible home ground advantage at a weird shaped outlier ground their average oppenent plays less than 2% of their games on & Cats train on it full time. Then here we are, seamlessly switching to Richmond has at least a 9 goal home advantage playing at the MCG against Geelong - who plays aroud 35% of their matches there, including a couple of home games per season.

And you say my post is unintentionally funny. You are a mess.

I edited my post to say "may not" . If you had bothered checking.

We aren't in tatters, as it is water under the bridge, and I wouldn't have bothered mentioning this if not for your outlandish post!!. For you to bleat over "disproportionate home ground advantages" is just so hypocritical. You really need to think before you post!

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I edited my post to say "may not" . If you had bothered checking.

We aren't in tatters, as it is water under the bridge, and I wouldn't have bothered mentioning this if not for your outlandish post!!. For you to bleat over "disproportionate home ground advantages" is just so hypocritical. You really need to think before you post!

Ah ok, so it is my fault you sttewpidly claim Cats hga makes no real difference on one hand, but Richmond's hga is 9 goals+ on the other hand. I forced you to make that claim.

Your fellow Cats fans will be fuming at you. You have single-handedly brought down their 1-wood defence to accusations their hga is very telling, ie that it shouldn't make any difference, teams should be able to play equally well anywhere.

....Until Geelong meets Richmond in a final at the MCG we have now learned, then hga makes at least a 9 goal difference.

Just do me one favour Sttewpid, please don't ever join our side of the argument.

 

[Sttew]

Ah ok, so it is my fault you sttewpidly claim Cats hga makes no real difference on one hand, but Richmond's hga is 9 goals+ on the other hand. I forced you to make that claim.

Your fellow Cats fans will be fuming at you. You have single-handedly brought down their 1-wood defence to accusations their hga is very telling, ie that it shouldn't make any difference, teams should be able to play equally well anywhere.

....Until Geelong meets Richmond in a final at the MCG we have now learned, then hga makes at least a 9 goal difference.

Just do me one favour Sttewpid, please don't ever join our side of the argument.

No idea what you are rambling about and don't care.

Just don't talk about disproportionate home ground advantages without acknowledging the disproportionate advantage your team has whenever it plays finals which is every 25 or so years

 

[PhatBoy]

Yep because teams who smash their way through 3 finals with a minimum winning margin of 6 goals & a percentage of 180% probably wouldn't have won those games at a different venue.

Cats fans are in tatters now over this. First they argue Cats have no discernible home ground advantage at a weird shaped outlier ground their average oppenent plays less than 2% of their games on & Cats train on it full time. Then here we are, seamlessly switching to Richmond has at least a 9 goal home advantage playing at the MCG against Geelong - who plays aroud 35% of their matches there, including a couple of home games per season.

And you say my post is unintentionally funny. You are a mess.

‘They’?

Who is they?

I haven’t argued that.

You were the better side and as far as I’m concerned would have beaten us anywhere. You played better football and deserved to win.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

‘They’?

Who is they?

I haven’t argued that.

You were the better side and as far as I’m concerned would have beaten us anywhere. You played better football and deserved to win.

That is so big of you PB, considering we more than doubled your score.