Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 1

[D BRIDGE]

Our record across 2021-22 without Danger was 13-3. You don't get results like that with an impotent midfield!

I'm not saying he isn't important. He clearly is. He might well be the difference between a top 4 team and a premiership team. But Geelong without Danger in 2021-22 was a high quality team.

I'm talking about in 2023... Not 21/22.

 

[Wellsy35]

Not sure how it would be structured but heard Kingy on the radio during the week proposing a system where matching f/s bids would need to be paid up in the current draft as apposed to loading up on future picks (first rounders) and essentially getting two bites of the cherry. It would make clubs scamper hard for a Nick Daicos like prospect. Sounded like it had merit to me.

Pretty sure he said something like being able to use a draft pick within 10 spots of where the bid comes. So Daicos gets bid on at 4, Collingwood could use any pick up to 14 to match the bid. Would incentivise people trading up the draft to be able to match a bid rather than trading back to stockpile points.

Bulldogs therefore might have been able to keep their top 10 selection and get a pick from 16-25 rather than having to completely get rid of it.

Don't mind it, personally, just after we get some gun father-sons.

 

[BORIS332]

But this is nonsense!

Players we took or now have from each draft:

2017 - Kelly and Miers. A mature gun and a good young player who looks like he might be an a-grader. Excellent draft.
2018 - Clark and Atkins. A good young player and a very good mature player. An average draft but far from terrible.
2019 - SDK and Close. An excellent draft.
2020 - Holmes, Bruhn, Henry and Neale. Depending on development will be somewhere between an excellent draft and an all time great draft.

We would've done better than most teams in the league over those drafts.

You've just decided to use a bizarre metric that doesn't value our efforts and can produce complete nonsense. Eg under your system St Kilda get more credit for throwing a lifeline to 2 Carlton failures Dow and Stocker (124 games combined) than we get in total for the 3 brilliant draft selections of Kelly, SDK and Holmes (94 games combined).

For the third time, you have misinterpreted the original post. I have said repeatedly it is not an assessment of how well we have drafted. It was in reply to how strong our current crop of 18-23 year olds is.

If you understood that you wouldn’t repeatedly be mentioning Kelly and Clark, who are not currently on our list. You can’t label something nonsense just because you can’t grasp it.

For the last time, we have seen significantly fewer games from the players we’ve drafted/recruited since 2017. As a result of that, our current crop of 18-23 year olds is weaker. I could’ve gone a different route and just shown games played in that age group, but I didn’t. It still tells the same story.

You can say SDK, Neale, etc are good picks, that might be so. But only having Miers and Atkins on our list from 2017 & 2018 (and other lower yielding drafts) means we are COMPARATIVELY worse off than other teams like Sydney who have McCartin, Amartey, Blakey, Rowbottom, McInerney and McLean just from those two drafts (2017 & 2018) alone.

You might be happy with our list and our recruiting and our retention, and that is fine. But in comparison to other clubs our under 23s is objectively shallower.

If I have to explain this one more time I will have an aneurysm and pass away.

 

[gogeelongcats]

For the third time, you have misinterpreted the original post. I have said repeatedly it is not an assessment of how well we have drafted. It was in reply to how strong our current crop of 18-23 year olds is.

If you understood that you wouldn’t repeatedly be mentioning Kelly and Clark, who are not currently on our list. You can’t label something nonsense just because you can’t grasp it.

For the last time, we have seen significantly fewer games from the players we’ve drafted/recruited since 2017. As a result of that, our current crop of 18-23 year olds is weaker. I could’ve gone a different route and just shown games played in that age group, but I didn’t. It still tells the same story.

You can say SDK, Neale, etc are good picks, that might be so. But only having Miers and Atkins on our list from 2017 & 2018 (and other lower yielding drafts) means we are COMPARATIVELY worse off than other teams like Sydney who have McCartin, Amartey, Blakey, Rowbottom, McInerney and McLean just from those two drafts (2017 & 2018) alone.

You might be happy with our list and our recruiting and our retention, and that is fine. But in comparison to other clubs our under 23s is objectively shallower.

If I have to explain this one more time I will have an aneurysm and pass away.

They have not been given the exposure and have not had the chance to show what they are capable of. Things will change this year as we are in transition.

 

[Lana]

Its a shame that 24 year olds lose the ability to play football, Imagine all of the pre-season puff pieces that could have been written comparing 24 to 26 year olds and especially 27 to 30 year olds

 

[And_ROOS]

This is his game now, I know people might scoff at this but I would much prefer he played behind the ball to rest, rather than forward.
He is a very average forward, people just think he can play forward because in his prime years he could.
But Dangerfield’s prime years were next level

Even prime Danger was a pretty poor set shot, and we are seeing what happens with clubs who have players with elite footskills playing off HBF.

I think its absolutely worth playing Danger there, he can burst, has a long kick and is an elite field kick.

 

[ShaunWDT]

I dont expect Danger playing another role to actually happen, think hell get everything he can out of his body as a mid and hang them up.

 

[And_ROOS]

I dont expect Danger playing another role to actually happen, think hell get everything he can out of his body as a mid and hang them up.

I agree. I think we see this year being the same as last year. He is getting 5 minute bursts in the midfield and heavily rotating off the bench.

 

[Turbocat]

Not sure how it would be structured but heard Kingy on the radio during the week proposing a system where matching f/s bids would need to be paid up in the current draft as apposed to loading up on future picks (first rounders) and essentially getting two bites of the cherry. It would make clubs scamper hard for a Nick Daicos like prospect. Sounded like it had merit to me.

Ultimately.. when we start talking about formulas and calculations for draft picks .. I get flash backs to a favourite movie of mine In the movie .. It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World ..the Buddy Hackett character hit it on the head.

...Look! We've figured it seventeen different ways, and every time we figured it, it was no good, because no matter how we figured it, somebody don't like the way we figured it! So now, there's only one way to figure it. And that is, every man, including the old bag, for himself!

 

[Turbocat]

Pretty sure he said something like being able to use a draft pick within 10 spots of where the bid comes. So Daicos gets bid on at 4, Collingwood could use any pick up to 14 to match the bid. Would incentivise people trading up the draft to be able to match a bid rather than trading back to stockpile points.

Bulldogs therefore might have been able to keep their top 10 selection and get a pick from 16-25 rather than having to completely get rid of it.

Don't mind it, personally, just after we get some gun father-sons.

Getting rid of discount .and not being able to dump your r1 ..would be a good start. So with the next Ashcroft (for example) ... if he is bid on at 1, 2, 3 etc... Brisbane must use their R1 pick (even if it P18) ... they get no 20% discount ... so maybe they have to trade some pick in from next year or whatever.

Where it would get hard is the Gold Coast situation. This year if they had kept their R1.. ist gets used on Jed Walter ... I cant see the afl wanting GC to miss on the other players ... and its probably going to be difficult to acquire extra R1 picks.

 

[Footy Smarts]

For the last time, we have seen significantly fewer games from the players we’ve drafted/recruited since 2017. As a result of that, our current crop of 18-23 year olds is weaker.

How would you rate a club's list with this as their 18-23 year old cohort?

Nick Daicos
Jason Horne Francis
Jye Amiss
Mitch Owens
Aaron Cadman
Will Ashcroft
Harry Sheezel
Sam De Koning
Max Holmes
Jamara Ugle Hagan
Matt Rowell
Will Day
Harley Reid
Nick Watson
Connor O'Sullivan

Spoiler

This group has 451 games played making them easily the weakest team in the league for 18-23 year old talent using your measure.

 

[Footy Smarts]

How would you rate a club's list with this as their 18-23 year old cohort?

Nick Daicos
Jason Horne Francis
Jye Amiss
Mitch Owens
Aaron Cadman
Will Ashcroft
Harry Sheezel
Sam De Koning
Max Holmes
Jamara Ugle Hagan
Matt Rowell
Will Day
Harley Reid
Nick Watson
Connor O'Sullivan

Spoiler

This group has 451 games played making them easily the weakest team in the league for 18-23 year old talent using your measure.

Or to put it another way, Paddy Dow is apparently worth more than 35x as much as Toby Conway, Jhye Clark and Connor O'Sullivan combined.

 

[CHAWKTS]

They have not been given the exposure and have not had the chance to show what they are capable of. Things will change this year as we are in transition.

I hope you are right…but not convinced at all. The club thinks they can bounce back and owe it to those older players to have a serious crack. We still have 21 of the 23 (I think) of our last premiership team on the list. We have added a 26 yo with the strong narrative that he can make a difference round 1.

So I fear that the under 23 group (other than a few who are staples - SDK, Ollie H and Max) may yet again not get much exposure in 2024 (unless we have lots of injuries or we fall off that cliff). Knevitte did get 8 or so games last year but lost his spot (despite playing well) as soon as the full list was available. Dempsey played 5 but the first 4 were not full games and last one when season was over (and was one of the best ranked players at half time). No one else (other than those 3 in best 22) got a crack. In a year when we missed the 8. Mullin got a bit more due to injuries in back and Neale was pure back up.

So I worry a lot that they don’t get a chance to play much again in 2024..and that might hold back the development of that age group. Mullin might be the exception (and maybe not u23 next year anyway?) as I could see him going past bews. Not sure about the rest

 

[Mr Meow]

I hope you are right…but not convinced at all. The club thinks they can bounce back and owe it to those older players to have a serious crack. We still have 21 of the 23 (I think) of our last premiership team on the list. We have added a 26 yo with the strong narrative that he can make a difference round 1.

So I fear that the under 23 group (other than a few who are staples - SDK, Ollie H and Max) may yet again not get much exposure in 2024 (unless we have lots of injuries or we fall off that cliff). Knevitte did get 8 or so games last year but lost his spot (despite playing well) as soon as the full list was available. Dempsey played 5 but the first 4 were not full games and last one when season was over (and was one of the best ranked players at half time). No one else (other than those 3 in best 22) got a crack. In a year when we missed the 8. Mullin got a bit more due to injuries in back and Neale was pure back up.

So I worry a lot that they don’t get a chance to play much again in 2024..and that might hold back the development of that age group. Mullin might be the exception (and maybe not u23 next year anyway?) as I could see him going past bews. Not sure about the rest

Bruhn is a staple too.

So we made Holmes and SDK best 22 in 2022, then Bruhn and O.Henry in 2023.

The complicating factors for adding two more in 2024 are Guthrie's return and Mannagh's recruitment.

Against that, Smith is gone and Tuohy/Bews won't be locks (opinion).

I also very strongly doubt the 30 plus crew will be hammered into the ground with 23 game seasons - and this is even before taking injuries into account. Odds are we'll see one or two managed for a sizeable chunk of the year.

A fairly "normal" injury list is around 3-4 best 22 missing. That's 80 games (very likely more) to divvy out to Knevitt, Clark, Conway, Neale, Mullin and anyone else who might be on your wish list. One of the non key position players (who would rely on injury to Stanley/Hawkins etc) from that list will be able to find a spot if form warrants it. Two at a push.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I hope you are right…but not convinced at all. The club thinks they can bounce back and owe it to those older players to have a serious crack. We still have 21 of the 23 (I think) of our last premiership team on the list. We have added a 26 yo with the strong narrative that he can make a difference round 1.

So I fear that the under 23 group (other than a few who are staples - SDK, Ollie H and Max) may yet again not get much exposure in 2024 (unless we have lots of injuries or we fall off that cliff). Knevitte did get 8 or so games last year but lost his spot (despite playing well) as soon as the full list was available. Dempsey played 5 but the first 4 were not full games and last one when season was over (and was one of the best ranked players at half time). No one else (other than those 3 in best 22) got a crack. In a year when we missed the 8. Mullin got a bit more due to injuries in back and Neale was pure back up.

So I worry a lot that they don’t get a chance to play much again in 2024..and that might hold back the development of that age group. Mullin might be the exception (and maybe not u23 next year anyway?) as I could see him going past bews. Not sure about the rest

I just think the match committee will play best available. Which is to say they'll play the oldies until they don't, but not for any distinct change in strategy

 

[Turbocat]

I hope you are right…but not convinced at all. The club thinks they can bounce back and owe it to those older players to have a serious crack. We still have 21 of the 23 (I think) of our last premiership team on the list. We have added a 26 yo with the strong narrative that he can make a difference round 1.

So I fear that the under 23 group (other than a few who are staples - SDK, Ollie H and Max) may yet again not get much exposure in 2024 (unless we have lots of injuries or we fall off that cliff). Knevitte did get 8 or so games last year but lost his spot (despite playing well) as soon as the full list was available. Dempsey played 5 but the first 4 were not full games and last one when season was over (and was one of the best ranked players at half time). No one else (other than those 3 in best 22) got a crack. In a year when we missed the 8. Mullin got a bit more due to injuries in back and Neale was pure back up.

So I worry a lot that they don’t get a chance to play much again in 2024..and that might hold back the development of that age group. Mullin might be the exception (and maybe not u23 next year anyway?) as I could see him going past bews. Not sure about the rest

No doubt we are gradullly turning the side over...its just the pace of it occurring that is in question. Last year Bruhn and OHenry became regulars. I think you can see that happen again. A fit Clark or Stevens or who ever will be given the nod and some one will be this years Menegola but in general while we are in contention... the mandate of performance will take prominence. The issue is we probably burn a few younger players if the pace of change is slow.

I think in aviation... a description for a pilot taking off is V1. Its a line where you can no longer abort. At sometime were are going to hit our V1..maybe its injuries again or form ... or maybe its being fully fit and just having our clock cleaned and like an old man crossing the road an awarenss occurs at an inopportune time that you can no longer move like you once did... and those in charge realise we no longer have the list to win it. Your fear is fair..and as long as we are a realistic chance of a 2022 outcome ..then the MC and coach will select for the now and be less concerned with long term. They will continue , as we have done till its obvious that what was good enough ...is now no longer good enough.

 

[And_ROOS]

Bruhn is a staple too.

So we made Holmes and SDK best 22 in 2022, then Bruhn and O.Henry in 2023.

The complicating factors for adding two more in 2024 are Guthrie's return and Mannagh's recruitment.

Against that, Smith is gone and Tuohy/Bews won't be locks (opinion).

I also very strongly doubt the 30 plus crew will be hammered into the ground with 23 game seasons - and this is even before taking injuries into account. Odds are we'll see one or two managed for a sizeable chunk of the year.

A fairly "normal" injury list is around 3-4 best 22 missing. That's 80 games (very likely more) to divvy out to Knevitt, Clark, Conway, Neale, Mullin and anyone else who might be on your wish list. One of the non key position players (who would rely on injury to Stanley/Hawkins etc) from that list will be able to find a spot if form warrants it. Two at a push.

Holmes really needs to be back on on the wing, he was in the midfield a bit this season out of necessity but with Smith gone, we need Holmes on one wing and we need to find someone else with pace to throw on the other. The last 3 seasons have shown the teams with quick wings who can run all day go deep into September. If he wasn't such a gun pressure forward I would actually love to see Close up on the wing but I love what he brings off the HF line that I wouldn't want to move him.

Guthrie isn't the same type of midfielder as Bruhn, so he won't take his minutes. Actually think there will be a lot of centre bounces next season where we see Stanley/Bruhn/Guthrie/Blicavs which gives us a really good balance, or Blicavs/Bruhn/Guthrie/Atkins depending on the match ups.

I don't know enough about Mannagh except that he is a mature age forward. He isn't near Henrys height so I doubt they are playing the same f50 role, is Mannagh more likely to push someone like Stengle out of the team? Or does he take Close/Miers position if they push for a midfield/upfield role? Or does he take Rohans spot if Rohan is out of form or injured for chunks of the season again?

 

[CatRiot]

Holmes really needs to be back on on the wing, he was in the midfield a bit this season out of necessity but with Smith gone, we need Holmes on one wing and we need to find someone else with pace to throw on the other. The last 3 seasons have shown the teams with quick wings who can run all day go deep into September. If he wasn't such a gun pressure forward I would actually love to see Close up on the wing but I love what he brings off the HF line that I wouldn't want to move him.

Guthrie isn't the same type of midfielder as Bruhn, so he won't take his minutes. Actually think there will be a lot of centre bounces next season where we see Stanley/Bruhn/Guthrie/Blicavs which gives us a really good balance, or Blicavs/Bruhn/Guthrie/Atkins depending on the match ups.

I don't know enough about Mannagh except that he is a mature age forward. He isn't near Henrys height so I doubt they are playing the same f50 role, is Mannagh more likely to push someone like Stengle out of the team? Or does he take Close/Miers position if they push for a midfield/upfield role? Or does he take Rohans spot if Rohan is out of form or injured for chunks of the season again?

Suspect Miers to Wing, as he has a massive motor. Mannagh to HF, as he can punish goal side also, whilst chopping out in midfield.

Holmes to wing please, especially when Guthrie is back.

 

[Mr Meow]

Holmes really needs to be back on on the wing, he was in the midfield a bit this season out of necessity but with Smith gone, we need Holmes on one wing and we need to find someone else with pace to throw on the other. The last 3 seasons have shown the teams with quick wings who can run all day go deep into September. If he wasn't such a gun pressure forward I would actually love to see Close up on the wing but I love what he brings off the HF line that I wouldn't want to move him.

Guthrie isn't the same type of midfielder as Bruhn, so he won't take his minutes. Actually think there will be a lot of centre bounces next season where we see Stanley/Bruhn/Guthrie/Blicavs which gives us a really good balance, or Blicavs/Bruhn/Guthrie/Atkins depending on the match ups.

I don't know enough about Mannagh except that he is a mature age forward. He isn't near Henrys height so I doubt they are playing the same f50 role, is Mannagh more likely to push someone like Stengle out of the team? Or does he take Close/Miers position if they push for a midfield/upfield role? Or does he take Rohans spot if Rohan is out of form or injured for chunks of the season again?

Yeah I basically agree with the above. I think with a full strength midfield Holmes can offer the odd stoppage burst but he can't handle all game there right now.

This is why I'd move Duncan to half back. It can work if he is replacing Tuohy, otherwise we make the backline too slow with both. Although I suspect with quicker wingmen and Guthrie back in midfield our defence won't be exposed quite as much.

With the free wing spot either we move Miers there, Dempsey is integrated into the team, Mannagh takes it or we hand it to Bowes. Maybe a combination of these although I think one of the last three won't be best 22. Miers and Dempsey/Mannagh alternating half forward and wing I could see working.

I like Close up the ground too. Maybe with Mannagh or Dempsey in its a move we could pull. He'd be a great wingman I reckon, a role similar to the Demons game at home where he was buzzing around everywhere.

But overall I agree we need to inject some pace there, someone with a huge tank who can defend on transition too. Then Duncan as a quality ball user off half back to instigate our own transitions.

 

[And_ROOS]

Yeah I basically agree with the above. I think with a full strength midfield Holmes can offer the odd stoppage burst but he can't handle all game there right now.

This is why I'd move Duncan to half back. It can work if he is replacing Tuohy, otherwise we make the backline too slow with both. Although I suspect with quicker wingmen and Guthrie back in midfield our defence won't be exposed quite as much.

With the free wing spot either we move Miers there, Dempsey is integrated into the team, Mannagh takes it or we hand it to Bowes. Maybe a combination of these although I think one of the last three won't be best 22. Miers and Dempsey/Mannagh alternating half forward and wing I could see working.

I like Close up the ground too. Maybe with Mannagh or Dempsey in its a move we could pull. He'd be a great wingman I reckon, a role similar to the Demons game at home where he was buzzing around everywhere.

But overall I agree we need to inject some pace there, someone with a huge tank who can defend on transition too. Then Duncan as a quality ball user off half back to instigate our own transitions.

If the rumour of Tuohys back being cooked last season is fixed by this season, I would imagine, rightly or wrongly, that we likely see Tuohy up on the wing opposite Holmes but if I am honest I would much rather we put someone with pace there.

Hopefully Duncan is over his injury niggles. When in form off HBF he is something else.

Last year he had quite a few games where he was something else despite the injuries. A fit Duncan is still important.

 

[BORIS332]

If the rumour of Tuohys back being cooked last season is fixed by this season, I would imagine, rightly or wrongly, that we likely see Tuohy up on the wing opposite Holmes but if I am honest I would much rather we put someone with pace there.

Hopefully Duncan is over his injury niggles. When in form off HBF he is something else.

Last year he had quite a few games where he was something else despite the injuries. A fit Duncan is still important.

There'll be lots of competition for that wing spot vacated by Smith - Knevitt, Mannagh, Dempsey. I don't necessarily think we need pace on both wings. If Holmes is the attacking wingman, it would be good to have a solid marking wingman like Knevitt on the other.

It will be interesting to see where Duncan plays most of his footy in 2024. His best work is on the wing, but he looked good coming off HB last season.

 

[cats_09]

I believe this would take him to free agency...

 

[STPer18]

Giants open talks on new deal with No.1 pick

Aaron Cadman has started discussions with GWS on a contract extension beyond the end of 2024

www.afl.com.au

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I believe this would take him to free agency...

Someone is getting their bread buttered in his next contract year. He's gon' git paid

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

Yeah I basically agree with the above. I think with a full strength midfield Holmes can offer the odd stoppage burst but he can't handle all game there right now.

This is why I'd move Duncan to half back. It can work if he is replacing Tuohy, otherwise we make the backline too slow with both. Although I suspect with quicker wingmen and Guthrie back in midfield our defence won't be exposed quite as much.

With the free wing spot either we move Miers there, Dempsey is integrated into the team, Mannagh takes it or we hand it to Bowes. Maybe a combination of these although I think one of the last three won't be best 22. Miers and Dempsey/Mannagh alternating half forward and wing I could see working.

I like Close up the ground too. Maybe with Mannagh or Dempsey in its a move we could pull. He'd be a great wingman I reckon, a role similar to the Demons game at home where he was buzzing around everywhere.

But overall I agree we need to inject some pace there, someone with a huge tank who can defend on transition too. Then Duncan as a quality ball user off half back to instigate our own transitions.

Dumb question but has Tuohy ever played MF ?