GFC ongoing rebuild

[Art Vandelay_]

Like Max Rooke had?

Liam Picken...

 

[Down at K Park]

Those two points are completely inconsistent. The key to defensive pressure is speed.

Positioning more likely. And ability to read the play.

You only need extra speed when your opponent leaves you in the wrong spot cause you are out of position or misread the play.

 

[Seeds]

Like Max Rooke had?

Max rooke is an exception as always.

 

[Warhorse]

Like Max Rooke had?

Was a plodder for most of his career. Took a while to overcome the fact he was slow.

he was 2/10ths of a sec faster over 20m so he made it

GO Catters

Can you stop stalking me.

Thanks

 

[dazbroncos]

Was a plodder for most of his career. Took a while to overcome the fact he was slow.


Can you stop stalking me.

Thanks

umm... I was quoting another poster that had nothing to do with you Captain 2/10ths..

The fact you assimilate with a ridiculous assertion and flock to it every chance you see it is clearly not a case of me stalking you, but you sticking with absurdity.
The short story there would be dont spew ridiculousness and it will probably stop haunting you.

Go Catters

 

[Ricketz]

Was a plodder for most of his career. Took a while to overcome the fact he was slow.

Ok, like Enright then? He stood Cyril a few times and did ok.

 

[Warhorse]

umm... I was quoting another poster that had nothing to do with you Captain 2/10ths..

The fact you assimilate with a ridiculous assertion and flock to it every chance you see it is clearly not a case of me stalking you, but you sticking with absurdity.
The short story there would be dont spew ridiculousness and it will probably stop haunting you.

Go Catters

So you are not a stalker. Just a bully instead

Ok, like Enright then? He stood Cyril a few times and did ok.

Funny example. Cyril has made a career of playing as a quick small forward that is strong defensively. Something Richmond has done well to copy with their own forward line

 

[Ricketz]

Funny example. Cyril has made a career of playing as a quick small forward that is strong defensively. Something Richmond has done well to copy with their own forward line

He is the perfect example. He played on the player considered the best defensive forward at the time, and beat him.

My point, again, is that speed is not the be all and end all. I don't want to copy Richmond, but I do recognise that we need to bring more defensive pressure to our forward line. But smarts can overcome pure speed, as can skill - especially when delivering into the forward line.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ok, like Enright then? He stood Cyril a few times and did ok.

You're being generous to Cyril here.
Enright made him his bitch for years, then passed on the formula to Guth, who in turn also made him his bitch.

 

[dazbroncos]

So you are not a stalker. Just a bully instead




Funny example. Cyril has made a career of playing as a quick small forward that is strong defensively. Something Richmond has done well to copy with their own forward line

Didnt get any traction with accusation #1 so moved onto #2? Whats next, a plumber? Make it a fireman. Always wanted to be a fireman.

Funny, I simply re-posted your comment. Seems like a more of a self assessment of your own content.

Perhaps if the innane stuff disappeared there would be nothing to repeat.

Go Catters

 

[Warhorse]

He is the perfect example. He played on the player considered the best defensive forward at the time, and beat him.

My point, again, is that speed is not the be all and end all. I don't want to copy Richmond, but I do recognise that we need to bring more defensive pressure to our forward line. But smarts can overcome pure speed, as can skill - especially when delivering into the forward line.

I have said already that speed is not the be all and end all. It was related to richmond who had success last year.

Yes there are players that are able to overcome a speed disadvantage.

Didnt get any traction with accusation #1 so moved onto #2? Whats next, a plumber? Make it a fireman. Always wanted to be a fireman.

Funny, I simply re-posted your comment. Seems like a more of a self assessment of your own content.

Perhaps if the innane stuff disappeared there would be nothing to repeat.

Go Catters

2/10 seconds is the difference between a good time and a poor time in a 20 metre sprint. Not much more I can add to that really

 

[dazbroncos]

I have said already that speed is not the be all and end all. It was related to richmond who had success last year.

Yes there are players that are able to overcome a speed disadvantage.



2/10 seconds is the difference between a good time and a poor time in a 20 metre sprint. Not much more I can add to that really

Probably not your best effort...

Go Catters

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Who cares about 2/10ths over 20m. It's a game of footy not the 400m relay at the Olympics.

 

[Warhorse]

Who cares about 2/10ths over 20m. It's a game of footy not the 400m relay at the Olympics.

Well recruiters seem to care for a start

 

[geelong_crazy26]

We had an impressive group of true footballers ... and we played a style that backed our groups ability to handle the ball and the situation... and it was the right time for that style.

I think the compressed nature of the game these days means burst speed is a bit more important than it was. Its not the be all and end all but someone like Danger and Cockatoo has shown how important that talent is.

The bulldogs are the ones who started this all up, Richmond followed with Similarities.

Where the bulldogs particularly quick by foot? I wouldn’t say they where an overly quick side.

Recall Jordan Lewis on fox footy commented on the bulldogs and said “ they are quick by hand and movement, there is a big difference” he said that in response to someone saying the dogs are a quick side. This was in the dogs premiership year he said this.

I would actually disagree pace was less of an asset in 07-11. In 07 our game plan was designed around working the ball up by hand to carve through the Sydney and eagles floods. We executed it rather with a team approach of quick rapid movement.

After that came the frontal pressure and the forward press which was all about applying pressure and the rolling congestion. We still won 2 premierships under those years with a very slow football team.

When you are referring to speed in a game, the unity of the 18 players working together to set up and provide options in a well executed fashion will trump speed any day.

I would rather have 6 players working closely together running and carrying with great timing and linking up than having 4 quick players linking up and 2 getting lost out of sync.

I understand speed is a good quality, but saying that speed is a reason a team is good enough or is not good enough, you may as well extend that notion and say the reason our football team is not premiership material is because we aren’t filled with enough 6’6 speedy athletic players with strong football IQ. Why stop at just the cause being speed? Height strength are just as important.

They are ideal traits you look for and would like to have in your players, but it doesn’t determine if your team will be good or won’t be good. It is just never this simplistic when you really analyse and break it down as to your players mix

Many sides that are slow have won flags, actually more slow sides than quick sides in recent history have won flags if you really want to dig deep into it.

Hawthorn- not a quick side, midfield was very slow.

Geelong- not quick at all.

Sydney/West Coast- not quick either.

Brisbane- not quick.

 

[Partridge]

Was a plodder for most of his career. Took a while to overcome the fact he was slow.

I wouldn't say he was slow. He certainly wasn't Shannon Burns, but he was probably at least as quick as Bartel and Chapman.

He's revered on here, but he was pretty average for a good early chunk of his career. Wasn't until 2005 and his late season move into midfield where he started producing better footy, and I'd argue he was only important to the team in 2008-2009. It's amazing to think he only played one game after the 2009 Grand Final.

 

[Pollywaffle]

I wouldn't say he was slow. He certainly wasn't Shannon Burns, but he was probably at least as quick as Bartel and Chapman.

He's revered on here, but he was pretty average for a good early chunk of his career. Wasn't until 2005 and his late season move into midfield where he started producing better footy, and I'd argue he was only important to the team in 2008-2009. It's amazing to think he only played one game after the 2009 Grand Final.

Has there ever been a more important less talented player.....

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Funny statement. We were to tall and to slow in a lot of games last year in my opinion.

The comment was more about richmond than geelong. They have used average players who have speed to great effect while dropping sam lloyd who has high scoreboard impact but no pace or defensive pressure

How is it a funny statement?

In no way shape do I believe speed is not an asset you would rather have, but when I hear people say verdicts on a player such as you are good or not good because of your speed, or a team is good or isn’t good because of speed, it just doesn’t come down to such a simplicity.

Some of the best defensive teams in our modern era of St Kilda and Collingwood where not very quick teams, St Kilda in 09-10 definitely where not quick, but they where pressure kings.

There is a lot more that makes an individual footballer good or not good than simply pace or height. You could probably draw an extensive list of skills just as important.

I think the emphasis and way people carry on about speed is superficial and overrated when you look at the big picture of what it takes and is all about.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Positioning more likely. And ability to read the play.

You only need extra speed when your opponent leaves you in the wrong spot cause you are out of position or misread the play.

Positioning,reading of the play, football IQ, discipline, fitness, synergy between all 18 players understanding 100% their role to play. I would say those things are more important defensively than speed.

St Kilda of 09-10 where probably the defensive pressure kings of our modern era, just lacked the attacking ability to win the big one. They where slow as a snail all up. But they had many many other things that allowed them to execute it all to perfection.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Positioning,reading of the play, football IQ, discipline, fitness, synergy between all 18 players understanding 100% their role to play. I would say those things are more important defensively than speed.

St Kilda of 09-10 where probably the defensive pressure kings of our modern era, just lacked the attacking ability to win the big one. They where slow as a snail all up. But they had many many other things that allowed them to execute it all to perfection.

Unfortunately this manic pressure thing that's winning flags is here to stay for a while IMO.
There won't be another Geelong 07 team to come along and change it like we did against the Swans boredom style of the years previous.
With 18 teams I just don't think they'll be a team skillfull enough to overcome this current phase.
I think teams with a lot of pace that are primed to bring 4qrs of manic pressure in the finals will succeed for a while.

 

[Partridge]

Unfortunately this manic pressure thing that's winning flags is here to stay for a while IMO.
There won't be another Geelong 07 team to come along and change it like we did against the Swans boredom style of the years previous.
With 18 teams I just don't think they'll be a team skillfull enough to overcome this current phase.
I think teams with a lot of pace that are primed to bring 4qrs of manic pressure in the finals will succeed for a while.

Maybe. I think the last two years have shown though even perceived experts aren’t any better at predicting who the premiers will be. Never know where the next great team is going to come from.

 

[Frappe]

Was a plodder for most of his career. Took a while to overcome the fact he was slow.


Can you stop stalking me.

Thanks

Wouldn’t have referred to him as a plodder. I think earlier in his career they played him down back at times with wrong match ups. This made him look slower. Tagged Judd and Goodes with success...definitely quicker than Jimmy and C Ling. Not that you’d add this to your resume

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Unfortunately this manic pressure thing that's winning flags is here to stay for a while IMO.
There won't be another Geelong 07 team to come along and change it like we did against the Swans boredom style of the years previous.
With 18 teams I just don't think they'll be a team skillfull enough to overcome this current phase.
I think teams with a lot of pace that are primed to bring 4qrs of manic pressure in the finals will succeed for a while.

It may well be around for a few years, it may not. The game evolves quite rapidly.

What I don’t agree with is that pace=pressure. Looking over history and the teams that are best at applying pressure, they generally are not the quickest sides. If you actually look at it from quickest sides to slowest, the quickest sides are generally pretty average pressure teams.

What does this say? It doesn’t say it is or isn’t an asset, all it really says is there are so many other equally important or more important factors to what determines a sides ability to apply pressure and elite defensive traits.

 

[BotsMaster]

Who cares about 2/10ths over 20m. It's a game of footy not the 400m relay at the Olympics.

Being 2/10ths of a second quicker over 20m probably helps if you're guarding grass

 

[Turbocat]

The bulldogs are the ones who started this all up, Richmond followed with Similarities.

Where the bulldogs particularly quick by foot? I wouldn’t say they where an overly quick side.

Recall Jordan Lewis on fox footy commented on the bulldogs and said “ they are quick by hand and movement, there is a big difference” he said that in response to someone saying the dogs are a quick side. This was in the dogs premiership year he said this.

I would actually disagree pace was less of an asset in 07-11. In 07 our game plan was designed around working the ball up by hand to carve through the Sydney and eagles floods. We executed it rather with a team approach of quick rapid movement.

After that came the frontal pressure and the forward press which was all about applying pressure and the rolling congestion. We still won 2 premierships under those years with a very slow football team.

When you are referring to speed in a game, the unity of the 18 players working together to set up and provide options in a well executed fashion will trump speed any day.

I would rather have 6 players working closely together running and carrying with great timing and linking up than having 4 quick players linking up and 2 getting lost out of sync.

I understand speed is a good quality, but saying that speed is a reason a team is good enough or is not good enough, you may as well extend that notion and say the reason our football team is not premiership material is because we aren’t filled with enough 6’6 speedy athletic players with strong football IQ. Why stop at just the cause being speed? Height strength are just as important.

They are ideal traits you look for and would like to have in your players, but it doesn’t determine if your team will be good or won’t be good. It is just never this simplistic when you really analyse and break it down as to your players mix

Many sides that are slow have won flags, actually more slow sides than quick sides in recent history have won flags if you really want to dig deep into it.

Hawthorn- not a quick side, midfield was very slow.

Geelong- not quick at all.

Sydney/West Coast- not quick either.

Brisbane- not quick.

It goes back further than the Dogs ..the compression of the players across the field has been happening for a while.. certainly think that had a part to play in why Freo beat us in a couple of finals