GFC ongoing rebuild

[Armo7]

The game plan ain't good but we can hope it can be changed.
We lost a few and gained Gaz but I'm not sure you need the most talented list at the moment to win one.
Just need to be able to cope with finals pressure and crowds and be able to play well at the MCG and you're a great chance.
Those last points I think the club needs to take very seriously.

On its face, your post sees to suggest you know more about game plans than the club does. Is that the intended meaning?

 

[year of the cat]

I wonder if we are over coached on the game plan.I wonder if we just picked the best 22 each week placed them in their most natural position on the ground wound them up and let them go what would happen.I'm betting there'd no guarding grass and minding space for starters.

Not as silly as some may think. My brother works at an AFL club and the message is now to keep strategy discussion simple. These days players are overloaded with information and many are overwhelmed. Having a relatively straight forward game plan that is easy to understand is very important.

 

[Armo7]

I wonder if we are over coached on the game plan.I wonder if we just picked the best 22 each week placed them in their most natural position on the ground wound them up and let them go what would happen.I'm betting there'd no guarding grass and minding space for starters.

Would that be a good thing?

 

[JumpyHolden]

On its face, your post sees to suggest you know more about game plans than the club does. Is that the intended meaning?

Well the club knows SFA about game plans.

 

[Cataholic]

I wonder if we are over coached on the game plan.I wonder if we just picked the best 22 each week placed them in their most natural position on the ground wound them up and let them go what would happen.I'm betting there'd no guarding grass and minding space for starters.

It’s possible, given the scrutiny and pursuit of advantage, no matter how small

 

[Spazz Cat]

On its face, your post sees to suggest you know more about game plans than the club does. Is that the intended meaning?

4 out of our last 7 finals have been over before 1/4 time.
Maybe it needs a tweak do you think?
Or just keep doing what we're doing?
What's your opinion?

 

[Ricketz]

That’s where my understanding fails.

Not sure how a few on here can claim to be supporters of, or derive any enjoyment from, a club that they consistently criticise, mock and belittle with derogatory commentary.

The same goes with those who can see no wrong with the club. Refusing to accept that there is room for improvement is an exercise in denial.

A balanced view considers both positive and negative.......a dogmatic insistence on one or the other suggests either a closed mind, an agenda, or perhaps both.

I just love the club and how they go about it.

 

[Cataholic]

I just love the club and how they go about it.

Fair enough too.

I love the club, and how they go about it, but try to keep it real.

I enjoy their success, and admit their failures, because an obsession either way just isn’t realistic.

 

[Lana]

4 out of our last 7 finals have been over before 1/4 time.
Maybe it needs a tweak do you think?
Or just keep doing what we're doing?
What's your opinion?

Compare the territory based game we used against Richmond to the short kicking possession based game we used against Sydney a week later. Its silly to suggest that the results reflect us repeating the same mistakes over again on a tactical level given how often we mix it up.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Compare the territory based game we used against Richmond to the short kicking possession based game we used against Sydney a week later. Its silly to suggest that the results reflect us repeating the same mistakes over again on a tactical level given how often we mix it up.

That territory game was the first time we've done that to that degree.
In a final! What a time to do it.
Let's get our team to to play a certain way all season then shit ourselves for whatever reason and play a completely different way in a final and expect it to come off.
It's like deciding out of the blue to play Henderson forward 1st game back from a knee Op in a PF.
Faaark me dead.
Also I thought it was preety obvious that I was talking about our game style throughout the year that needs changing. Not just knee jerk reactions and desperate changes in finals.
Also our game plan for 4 years has been about clogging up space the best we can and using our tall defence to our advantage.
Fundamentally we have not deviated from that.
I don't think we mix it up as much as you say.

 

[JumpyHolden]

I just love the club and how they go about it.

So you love us losing finals? Great.

 

[dazbroncos]

So you love us losing finals? Great.

Not as much as you do clearly.

GO Catters

 

[Lana]

That territory game was the first time we've done that to that degree.
In a final! What a time to do it.
Let's get our team to to play a certain way all season then shit ourselves for whatever reason and play a completely different way in a final and expect it to come off.
It's like deciding out of the blue to play Henderson forward 1st game back from a knee Op in a PF.
Faaark me dead.
Also I thought it was preety obvious that I was talking about our game style throughout the year that needs changing. Not just knee jerk reactions and desperate changes in finals.
Also our game plan for 4 years has been about clogging up space the best we can and using our tall defence to our advantage.
Fundamentally we have not deviated from that.
I don't think we mix it up as much as you say.

You can't have it both ways, complain for us to change our game plan, when they do it complain again saying we shouldn't have done it and then deny that we made many changes at at all.

Anyway in my mind the territory game looked so overt for two reasons
1) Richmond were trying to do exactly the same thing they we were. Both team were ping ponging the ball as forward as quickly as possible and then trying to set up a press
2) Richmond were winning the ball out the centre more then we were. Which was starting the territory battle on their terms. We had to move the ball forward and then attempt to setup our own press.

Talking about using a press, remember when everyone was complaining about that loose zone after we lost those three games in the middle of the year where we'd hang off the ball carrier and give them space to run and hope they'd run their measure and kick long where we had number back. After that we started playing with a high press.

We were playing the territory game after the Sydney game in round 20 when they our preference to switch the ball at half back against us by putting a player in that space to preventing us having a free man to receive the switch.

"Desperate" change during finals isn't always fatal, our decision to change how we play contributed to our strong win against Sydney like deciding to shut down the centre clearances by playing our two defensive midfielders and playing possession football to avoid giving them they turnovers they used to punish us in the H&A match. Moving Dangerfield forward that game was also pretty "Desperate". Whatever plans Sydney had before the game would have been close to irrelevant given how differently we setup from the week before and it showed.

Clogging up space is a hallmark of every teams plan game, not a single team in the competition doesn't do it. It is all in the how that changes. In the last four years we've shifted from using a forward press to zoning in our back third and back and forth multiple times. How our grid looks when we press has significantly changed, same as what space we leave free when they zone back. I'm not sure why your holding using one on our competitive advantages against us especially when it about something so text book.

Given that at the very least we mixed up both how we moved the ball and defended during the H&A season and did the same after a bad loss in the Qualifying final. I'm confident in saying our gameplan saw more then a few tweaks during the year.

 

[cynical]

I think we could easy win a GF if we developed a game plan to win at the G and stick to it from rnd 1 even if we manage to drop a couple of games at KP.
Then pick a sensible structure and good mix of inside/outside, grunt/footskills not just best available.
Then get Danger to forget about the Brownlow and rest him when he has serious niggles and get him primed for finals.
Will we do it? Probably not. But we can hope.

Dont think the team plays for each other enough.

Even if they decided to structure correctly and play the correct personnel its unlikely that it all comes together in a season.

There is a clear hole at CHF and for small forwards/outside players, backline needs a major reshuffle.

Dont think you can just have a few aging champions thrown together with kids and list cloggers and seriously expect to win a flag.

If the club makes the right changes we will likely finish around the bottom of the 8, maybe better with a bit of luck. If we do the same as the past few years it'll be another prelim loss.

 

[Spazz Cat]

When talking about changing the game plan I was talking about the way we play and our game style as a whole.
Yes the Sydney game was good as we also left out a tall defender and bought in Lang which was a massive advantage at the G having the extra kicking skills and run.
That alone made more difference than any zoning or press.
Playing Danger forward isn't really a change in game style. Most teams put their best mid forward sometimes.
Changing the zone and press isn't really a change in game style either. It has to be changed up because it's not sustainable to play a high press energy wise every week.
Most teams do this.
Still doesn't change anything about our overall game style and how we move the ball.
Our structure and skills are what will change the way we play the most.
Look at the Sydney final and the way Duncan and Motlop were kicking from the wide flanks over opposition heads into the middle. We have players who (correctly) don't do this cause they can't and don't have the skills. This isn't as important at KP.
Yes all teams clog space but we have had a massive advantage on such a narrow ground with a tall defence that can read the play so well. We've literally been able to stand back and let the opposition win the ball, everyone clogs space and they just give it back.
This totally falls apart at the G where even poor opposition can beat us because it's not possible to do there.
We need to change our structure and the way we move the ball.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Dont think the team plays for each other enough.

Even if they decided to structure correctly and play the correct personnel its unlikely that it all comes together in a season.

There is a clear hole at CHF and for small forwards/outside players, backline needs a major reshuffle.

Dont think you can just have a few aging champions thrown together with kids and list cloggers and seriously expect to win a flag.

If the club makes the right changes we will likely finish around the bottom of the 8, maybe better with a bit of luck. If we do the same as the past few years it'll be another prelim loss.

Yeah I also think if we made the changes we would finish in the bottom half of the 8 but would be in a better position moving forward.
If we don't do much at all though we should win 8/9 KP games + we have Hawthorn twice and we should easy finish top 4. But then struggle in finals again.

 

[Turbocat]

How do we replace the champs?

Slip ..Thats one possible route , a slip is the most probable event if one is to predict our future. Media types have had us in decline for years... and eventually they will be right.

Its possible that the guys we acquire now develop into much better players than their draft status would seem and they become a group that supplies 4 or 6 champs , maybe thats a most hopeful outcome ..but its possible

I suspect that this group of "now" will "mainly" be a support cast , perhaps a strong one like an ensemble cast in a blockbuster movie but yes a support cast. However I suspect one or two of the "now" developing beyond their draft position , and not just be high end players but become champs and then thicken the list we will trade/fa in one or two players depending on availability to put the icing on the cake.

A ladder slip is probable and probably inevitable. The question is .. how low the slip and how long. We have already seen it once , the year we acquired Danger.

I doubt any slip will be too deep a slip or too long. We may have a year or two where we slip to the middle , out of finals or a bit lower.. but personally I do not see us crashing and becoming the rural repository of malcontents , where the current custodians are happy with being a mediocre cellar dweller. Even in our ordinary years .. we only just ordinary ... and very rarely were we a playable bye. Perhaps early 70's was the last time we were that.

Maybe its pride before the fall but I doubt we will be a rubbish club or side even when our champs retire. In someways thats an issue for some , as even now , some media "experts" think we should have just accepted our decline and gone down out of the finals rather than take Danger etc. and artificially stayed in contention. Perhaps. I would say to them that in this era .. show me a method that is more surely successful than what we are doing. They want us to bounce .. to drop and to then climb and I suspect they would like swift drop and a slow climb. Easy to drop but the climb is no guarantee. Has Port bounced since 2007 , has StKilda done it better than us..or Collingwood. Melb has shown over and over that early picks is no certain road to success. Drive that road alone , and its a Road to Perdition.

In this era it must be more than just one road taken to building a list. The GWS/GC science experiment may yet furl the "tank" mythology asunder .. if they cant win and dominante for years with the picks they have been able to use then ordinary clubs have little chance to do it thru time at the bottom alone. There is no perfect system ..and I think we have been slightly biased too far one way but now , we seem back on track. I so happy we kept our picks this year.

I dont doubt we could have done somethings better in the past but I really dont see the overall benefit of moving out of contention for too long. It eats your club and your culture. Perhaps 1 or 2 years is required... get access to a better group of draftees , reinvigorate an "eye of the tiger" etc. and not alienate the comerical side of the club but not much longer.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Dont think the team plays for each other enough.

Even if they decided to structure correctly and play the correct personnel its unlikely that it all comes together in a season.

There is a clear hole at CHF and for small forwards/outside players, backline needs a major reshuffle.

Dont think you can just have a few aging champions thrown together with kids and list cloggers and seriously expect to win a flag.

If the club makes the right changes we will likely finish around the bottom of the 8, maybe better with a bit of luck. If we do the same as the past few years it'll be another prelim loss.

Sorry did you just say you cant win a flag with a few A graders some kids and a bunch of list cloggers? Clearly you didnt watch Richmond this year then.

 

[Turbocat]

Sorry did you just say you cant win a flag with a few A graders some kids and a bunch of list cloggers? Clearly you didnt watch Richmond this year then.

Rich and the Dogs are more an example that what we are doing now will assemble a cast that will be able capable doing the job. They did not just do it by draft alone ... they did probably have access to some single figure players that we haven't. The likes Bont and Martin are not late picks developed .. its the area I wonder about. I don't think we will have champ FSons this time to cover the shortfall.

 

[Mahlepi]

Rich and the Dogs are more an example that what we are doing now will assemble a cast that will be able capable doing the job. They did not just do it by draft alone ... they did probably have access to some single figure players that we haven't. The likes Bont and Martin are not late picks developed .. its the area I wonder about. I don't think we will have champ FSons this time to cover the shortfall.

But right now we have Selwood danger and Ablett
Amongst the best 5 mids this century

 

[cynical]

Sorry did you just say you cant win a flag with a few A graders some kids and a bunch of list cloggers? Clearly you didnt watch Richmond this year then.

We have a lot more reliance on list cloggers and kids than they do. Their top end is also more balanced than ours.

 

[Warhorse]

We have a lot more reliance on list cloggers and kids than they do. Their top end is also more balanced than ours.

Richmonds list cloggers seem to have more pace which a least means they are pressuring the ball carrier.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

This obsession with pace. Baffling.
It’s not the be all and end all. Ball moves faster in the air than any footballer can run.

 

[Sttew]

Wonder if we'll go hard at Lynch.

Word is Collingwood has all but signed him for 2019. That's why they were conspicuously quiet in the Trade this year. Would love to trump Collingwood though

 

[Warhorse]

This obsession with pace. Baffling.
It’s not the be all and end all. Ball moves faster in the air than any footballer can run.

Such an ignorant statement. No one here is saying its the be all and end all. Both bulldogs and richmond relied heavily on defensive pressure which is easier to do with quicker players in the side.