blue gunslinger
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Lovely part of the world this
Giro d'Italia 2014
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Uran needs a big TT tonight. Hes the only one that can beat Quintana from here.
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- #328
This should be good watching, this TT is going to seriously hurt those boys.
- Jul 7, 2012
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hahaha on one of the wide external shots of the road, people had drawn all over the road and there was a massive dick and balls.
chargers 09
Premiership Player
Quintas's Giro by the looks of things, unless a disaster happens on the Zoncolan.
grouse mate
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Just incredible. Quintana no doubt was born on a bicycle.
grouse mate
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Also how the hell did Santaromita win the Italian National Champs?
Saladin sucks
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From memory Santaromita was in an early breakaway, and then rode he away from the break at the end.
Because it was nationals there was less team influence and the bigger name riders in the peleton wouldn't work together to chase down the break. Instead they all wanted to wait for someone else to work and then jump at the end.
So it was a legitimate win, but it overstates his quality compared to other Italians which is what I think you are suggesting.
The Zoncolan looks like a typically insanely Italian way to finish the Giro. Cannot wait for it later tonight. I haven't managed to see too many finishes this year, but this one I'm locked in for, (although I'm not looking too forward to the early Auskick start to tomorrow morning)
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Pantskyle
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Same, I have Auskick with the kids at 9am, bleh!
JuddsABlue
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Do we expect an attack on this 2nd last climb?
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- #338
The crowd was an absolute disgrace today.
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- #339
Anyway, crowd aside (and seriously, what a joke) Rogers was great, fantastic ride and Quintana did exactly what he should have done, as awesome as it would have been to see him dancing on the pedals and making 20% look easy (well... not easy but easier) he didn't need to, watching him surge past Uran at the very end was pretty cheeky. Highlight of the stage (other than Rogers) was Poels (i think) flogging that guys sunnies, hilarious.
Not sure I can agree with the SBS boys about the time gaps being enough to justify saying "that rider would have won anyway" - in either Quintana's case, or Rogers'.
Quintana's Cheating Dividend
Quintana went into Stage 16 with a deficit of 2:40 to Uran. He gained 1:26 on the mountain TT on stage 19, so the baseline we need to be working from is 1:14 in favour of Uran.
We know that Quintana illegally gained 1:43 on the descent on Stage 16, having ridden past a motorbike with an official waving a red flag. He subsequently gained a further 1:49 on the best of the rest (Kelderman) on the final climb. Uran cracked big time on this climb, losing 32 seconds to Kelderman, so it's probably safe to deduct that from the gap as well - it's still advantage Uran by 42 seconds.
I would argue that Quintana's gains on the final climb would have been much, much smaller, had he been riding with the peleton. There have been several mountain top finishes in this year's Giro. Aside from the TT, Quintana hasn't soloed to the top in any of them. He's always finished with the lead group from the remnants of the peleton, with maybe a small gain from sprinting in the last 50m. It is very, very hard to imagine Quintana gaining 42 seconds over the best of the other climbers, had they all started the climb together.
Uran might not have been the best climber on this year's Giro, but he was the best overall rider. He has been robbed of a GT victory by Quintana's cheating - and the fact that Quintana put time into him on the final mountain TT should not make the controversy go away, like the SBS talking heads think that it does. Quintana has benefited from his cheating and stolen a GT as a result. That is the unavoidable conclusion that I come to from having watched all of the stages on this year's Giro.
Nairo Quintana: Grand Theft Giro.
Rogers vs Bongiourno
Unlike Quintana, who has benefited from blatant cheating, Rogers did nothing wrong. There is no doubt that he benefited from Bongiorno's misfortune, but that's as far as it goes.
With approximately 4km to go, Rogers & Bongiorno were involved in a head-to-head battle for line honours, on a ridiculously steep part of the climb. They appeared to be well matched, with Rogers easily coping with Bongiorno's attempts to attack.
Bongiorno received a push from an idiotic spectator. This resulted in Bongiorno becoming unbalanced and almost falling off. He had to stop and put his foot down in order to regain balance. By the time he got started again, Rogers was 40m up the road and the rubber band had snapped. Bongiorno subsequently finished 3rd, behind Pellizotti, 49 seconds down on Rogers. Rogers did absolutely nothing wrong - and by the time he became aware of Bongiorno's fate it would have been too late for him to do the honourable thing and wait for him.
The idiotic commentators at SBS tried to argue that he didn't lose 49 seconds to Rogers when he stopped - and therefore he would have lost the stage to Rogers anyway. This is absolute bullsh!t. Rogers may have still won the race, but to suggest that the final margin is evidence of anything is patently absurd.
Bongiorno was forced to stop on an extremely steep part of the climb. It wasn't the steepest part of the climb (22%), but it was probably over 15%. He only lost a relatively short amount of time while stationary, but he knew that it was all over. Even if he was able to put in the effort required to catch Rogers, he would have had nothing left when they got to the line. Prior to the push he had rhythm & momentum and was mentally well motivated to keep riding at the limit for as long as he possibly could. The push robbed him of his rhythm & momentum and shattered his mental resolve, as he knew that the game was already over. This is why the final margin blew out - he was mentally shot, having been robbed of his chance to win the stage by some idiot on the side of the road. He no longer had the motivation to ride flat out all the way to the top - and lost 49 seconds as a result.
I'm not saying that Bongiorno would have won the stage. He & Rogers appeared to be well matched and any postulation as to what might have happened had the battle continued is purely hypothetical. I'm saying that he was robbed of the opportunity to win the stage, in contrast to the SBS commentators who think that Rogers was a certainty for victory anyway.
Quintana's Cheating Dividend
Quintana went into Stage 16 with a deficit of 2:40 to Uran. He gained 1:26 on the mountain TT on stage 19, so the baseline we need to be working from is 1:14 in favour of Uran.
We know that Quintana illegally gained 1:43 on the descent on Stage 16, having ridden past a motorbike with an official waving a red flag. He subsequently gained a further 1:49 on the best of the rest (Kelderman) on the final climb. Uran cracked big time on this climb, losing 32 seconds to Kelderman, so it's probably safe to deduct that from the gap as well - it's still advantage Uran by 42 seconds.
I would argue that Quintana's gains on the final climb would have been much, much smaller, had he been riding with the peleton. There have been several mountain top finishes in this year's Giro. Aside from the TT, Quintana hasn't soloed to the top in any of them. He's always finished with the lead group from the remnants of the peleton, with maybe a small gain from sprinting in the last 50m. It is very, very hard to imagine Quintana gaining 42 seconds over the best of the other climbers, had they all started the climb together.
Uran might not have been the best climber on this year's Giro, but he was the best overall rider. He has been robbed of a GT victory by Quintana's cheating - and the fact that Quintana put time into him on the final mountain TT should not make the controversy go away, like the SBS talking heads think that it does. Quintana has benefited from his cheating and stolen a GT as a result. That is the unavoidable conclusion that I come to from having watched all of the stages on this year's Giro.
Nairo Quintana: Grand Theft Giro.
Rogers vs Bongiourno
Unlike Quintana, who has benefited from blatant cheating, Rogers did nothing wrong. There is no doubt that he benefited from Bongiorno's misfortune, but that's as far as it goes.
With approximately 4km to go, Rogers & Bongiorno were involved in a head-to-head battle for line honours, on a ridiculously steep part of the climb. They appeared to be well matched, with Rogers easily coping with Bongiorno's attempts to attack.
Bongiorno received a push from an idiotic spectator. This resulted in Bongiorno becoming unbalanced and almost falling off. He had to stop and put his foot down in order to regain balance. By the time he got started again, Rogers was 40m up the road and the rubber band had snapped. Bongiorno subsequently finished 3rd, behind Pellizotti, 49 seconds down on Rogers. Rogers did absolutely nothing wrong - and by the time he became aware of Bongiorno's fate it would have been too late for him to do the honourable thing and wait for him.
The idiotic commentators at SBS tried to argue that he didn't lose 49 seconds to Rogers when he stopped - and therefore he would have lost the stage to Rogers anyway. This is absolute bullsh!t. Rogers may have still won the race, but to suggest that the final margin is evidence of anything is patently absurd.
Bongiorno was forced to stop on an extremely steep part of the climb. It wasn't the steepest part of the climb (22%), but it was probably over 15%. He only lost a relatively short amount of time while stationary, but he knew that it was all over. Even if he was able to put in the effort required to catch Rogers, he would have had nothing left when they got to the line. Prior to the push he had rhythm & momentum and was mentally well motivated to keep riding at the limit for as long as he possibly could. The push robbed him of his rhythm & momentum and shattered his mental resolve, as he knew that the game was already over. This is why the final margin blew out - he was mentally shot, having been robbed of his chance to win the stage by some idiot on the side of the road. He no longer had the motivation to ride flat out all the way to the top - and lost 49 seconds as a result.
I'm not saying that Bongiorno would have won the stage. He & Rogers appeared to be well matched and any postulation as to what might have happened had the battle continued is purely hypothetical. I'm saying that he was robbed of the opportunity to win the stage, in contrast to the SBS commentators who think that Rogers was a certainty for victory anyway.
grouse mate
Premiership Player
15% gradient for even a couple of hundred metres is where I start wondering why I even bother riding a bike, to watch them do 5+ k's of that was insane.
blue gunslinger
Hall of Famer
It wasn't just one isolated incident with crowd but numerous. It is a lack of respect
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- #343
Vader I didn't watch every stage but is it definitively proven 100% that Quintana (and i can only assume Rolland and Hesjedal) rode past a red flag or is that still speculation? I've been trying to keep on top of everything i can find on the Giro and i haven't read anywhere that this was 100% confirmed (all i can find is the jockeying between the UCI, race officials and the riders union).
FWIW on the Rogers thing the SBS boys saying what happened to Bongiourno "is only 5-10 seconds" is ridiculous, on an 8-10% grade stopping destroys your momentum and kills your rhythm, i can only imagine what it does on a 15% grade! the fact he got passed by Pelozzoti shows how much it affected him. Having said that Rogers seemed to have his measure and Bongiournos continuous and haphazard attacks had to be taking there toll on him, its just a shame we will never know 100%
FWIW on the Rogers thing the SBS boys saying what happened to Bongiourno "is only 5-10 seconds" is ridiculous, on an 8-10% grade stopping destroys your momentum and kills your rhythm, i can only imagine what it does on a 15% grade! the fact he got passed by Pelozzoti shows how much it affected him. Having said that Rogers seemed to have his measure and Bongiournos continuous and haphazard attacks had to be taking there toll on him, its just a shame we will never know 100%
SBS showed footage of him going past a motorbike with an official holding a red flag.
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- #345
Right, i didn't see that, seems like the sort of thing they should show a few times...
Freakie
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Pantskyle
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Totally agree Vader on all points.
The 2 highlights for me last night were Poels swiping the sunglasses and then Rogers clearly telling the fans to "* off".
The 2 highlights for me last night were Poels swiping the sunglasses and then Rogers clearly telling the fans to "* off".
Saladin sucks
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Not sure what I think about Quintana - but I am sure nothing will be changed. I also think he could have ridden away from the others on Zoncolan if he wanted to. Also it's not just Quintana - its Rolland and Hesjedal as well. If Rolland had finished in podium that would have re-ignited the Stelvio controversy - particularly since he kept Italians out.
Re Rogers and Bongiorno. Yes it cost Bongiorno his chance to win. Part of extra time came because he chased Rogers at full pace and then blew up. Previously he was riding with the experienced Rogers at a more steady sustainable pace.
I am also interested in what others think about the people who run beside and try to interact with the riders - i.e. who are they? Do you think these spectators are cyclists themselves, or people who actively follow cycling? Or are they just yobbo sports fans who go to various "sports events" to get pissed and get in the media - like the people who wear footy shorts to Melbourne cup or uniform t-shirts and wigs to 20/20 cricket matches? If it is the latter then we can expect behaviour to get steadily worse until events are better policed with fines/bans for invasions.
Re Rogers and Bongiorno. Yes it cost Bongiorno his chance to win. Part of extra time came because he chased Rogers at full pace and then blew up. Previously he was riding with the experienced Rogers at a more steady sustainable pace.
I am also interested in what others think about the people who run beside and try to interact with the riders - i.e. who are they? Do you think these spectators are cyclists themselves, or people who actively follow cycling? Or are they just yobbo sports fans who go to various "sports events" to get pissed and get in the media - like the people who wear footy shorts to Melbourne cup or uniform t-shirts and wigs to 20/20 cricket matches? If it is the latter then we can expect behaviour to get steadily worse until events are better policed with fines/bans for invasions.
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- #348
It genuinely seems to be a little of both. I saw people running alongside yesterday in lycra and cycling shoes (which is a disaster waiting to happen).
Simple solution would seem to be implement a fine system for touching or interfering in anyway with the riders. Yesterday was a joke, there were 500 cops arm in arm for the last 500m and not one official for the first 9.5kms. It would only need a few people every couple hundred metres in spectator dense zones keeping people back.
I for one wouldnt run alongside screaming etc, i wouldn't even want to stand on the road (plenty of room on the shoulders) just in case. Imaging being the person holding the musette that caught Lances hoods all those years ago and that was basically inadvertent.
A spectator will bring down a rider and cost them a GC one day if nothing is done, there is a chance it could cost someone a career.
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Pantskyle
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The problem is these idiots are stuck on the mountain all day drinking themselves stupid. Most of the fans are tanked by the time the peleton arrives and hence the stupidity that ensues!
Take away the spectacle you will take away the spectators which will take away the race. As a pro cyclist you have to understand (which I'm sure most do) that the spectators are indirectly paying your wages. As a result they just have to grin and bear it when people act like dickheads. I'm in no way condoning their behavior but you have to admit the crazy crowds they get on some mountains make watching the race a whole lot better.
