Go Rob!

[Mad Dog]

While last season's performance by Shirley has started to convince me he is finally starting to earn his place, although I think he is in the team purely for his inside work and has to step up his outside game to AFL standard if he is to survive, the opposing view that he is not quite up to it now is debatable but hardly outrageous. One way of assessing a player or coach's worth is to imagine whether other AFL clubs would pick them up if they became available (eg no club was silly enough to appoint Ayres as senior coach, not even Hawthorn). Would Shirley be picked up if delisted? Maybe, maybe not.

When I see all the self righteous, patronising, abusive comments that are made all too often on this board it makes me cringe. Calling someone else an idiot because you don't agree with them about a footy issue and then unilaterally declaring you've therefore won the argument reflects more on the abuser than the abusee

well said - abuse is becoming the fallback position of the frustrated and factually bereft all too often lately.

Deconstruction of an arguement rather than the character is far more satisfying IMO......

 

[Crow Envy]

The facts:

B&F is judged by the people that matters and they are in the best position to judge.

Shirley in rounds 17,20 & the PF scored a combined total of 4 B&F's votes. These rounds include his match ups on Cross, West and Judd.

There has been mention of Judd's high clanger count and the fact he has poor dispoal at high speed. But no one has backed these up with facts. Based on what I have received for not quoting facts it should entitle me to throw personal insults. But as Mad Dog has quiet rightly pointed out, destructing an argument is more satisfying.

 

[Sanguinarius]

But as Mad Dog has quiet rightly pointed out, destructing an argument is more satisfying.

to be quite honest this would require you to develope an argument.

"shirly sucks because Judd has beaten him" isn't exactly water-tight.

 

[Mad Dog]

to be quite honest this would require you to develope an argument.

"shirly sucks because Judd has beaten him" isn't exactly water-tight.

or at least cite a second example to support the original hypothesis.

"Shirley was beaten by the best midfielder of the last decade.....(one that no-one else is able to stop).......therefore Shirley is crap" offers little correlation and little supporting empirical evidence.

 

[Crow Envy]

or at least cite a second example to support the original hypothesis.

"Shirley was beaten by the best midfielder of the last decade.....(one that no-one else is able to stop).......therefore Shirley is crap" offers little correlation and little supporting empirical evidence.

In my threads I gave 3 examples including players and games but again this has been ignored.

I have never said Shirley is crap. This originally started by someone mentioning Shirley had heaps of improvement in him. I said this wasnt so and he was not a premier tagger, but a good player who struggles against the elite in the competition. Hence my examples.

 

[Crow Envy]

to be quite honest this would require you to develope an argument.

"shirly sucks because Judd has beaten him" isn't exactly water-tight.

Did you actually read the rest of my post or just the last line because if you had you would have seen I gave you the clubs opinion of his game against some of the best players in the comp.

 

[GoSarge]

In my threads I gave 3 examples including players and games but again this has been ignored.

I have never said Shirley is crap. This originally started by someone mentioning Shirley had heaps of improvement in him. I said this wasnt so and he was not a premier tagger, but a good player who struggles against the elite in the competition. Hence my examples.

You've picked out 3 convenient examples that support your argument. If we go back further over the last 2 years, and compare a larger number of other games against other premier midfielders, I am sure the argument may stack up a little differently.

I do agree with you in the sense that he hasn't got 'heaps' of improvement in him, but he's hardly a good player who struggles against the elite.

 

[Crow Envy]

You've picked out 3 convenient examples that support your argument. If we go back further over the last 2 years, and compare a larger number of other games against other premier midfielders, I am sure the argument may stack up a little differently.

I do agree with you in the sense that he hasn't got 'heaps' of improvement in him, but he's hardly a good player who struggles against the elite.

No I have just picked the last 3 games between these players. I believe they are a good guide as they are towards the business end of the season and include a final.

 

[King Elvis]

Round 20 West 45 possessions! True Shirley wasnt on him the whole game but as our premier tagger why wasnt he? Maybe because when he was he couldnt do the job. The other player Shirley matched up on that day was Cross who had 31 possessions. Or is this all made up?

And anyone can carry on with the insults to make themselves appear intelligent. It generally shows they cant rely on the facts.

Didn't Roo play a couple of games last year where he got less than 10 touches?

Let's drop him - it's not like good players can actually just have a bad day, is it?

Picking three or four games in the last couple of years and saying he got carved up as justification to bag him is absolutely pathetic.