Review Good, Bad and Ugly

[BigLefty]

You make the top-5 stupid post for the week.

Not for the ins, but for wanting Douglas dropped, when he has been 1 of our best players. You could pick 15 players more deserving of being dropped than Douglas - starting with Vince & Porps.

Wayne's World's post is on the money.

Fortunately the selectors appreciate Douglas for what he brings to the side.

If your not taking the piss, this just about takes the cake for the most ridiculous post on our board thus far this season!!

cool!! what do i win??

ok, reading my post back again it is a little misleading perhaps.

i dont propose we drop Douglas this week. he has been one of our better players so far this season (strong correlation of team form from his club champion year). but longer term, next trade period for example i'd like to see douglas moved elsewhere and the other guys given an opportunity for his spot.

 

[Vader]

cool!! what do i win??

ok, reading my post back again it is a little misleading perhaps.

i dont propose we drop Douglas this week. he has been one of our better players so far this season (strong correlation of team form from his club champion year). but longer term, next trade period for example i'd like to see douglas moved elsewhere and the other guys given an opportunity for his spot.

No chance. There are at least 5-6 mid-sized players (probably more) who are ahead of him in line for the chopping block. These are the players we need to be moving on to create opportunities for youngsters - not players who are performing well, like Douglas.

** Players ahead of him in the queue - as of R3: Johncock, Petrenko, Jaensch, Porplyzia, Vince, Wright, Reilly & Mackay. That list deliberately excludes kids like Crouch & Brown, neither of whom are performing to the same level as Douglas.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

The reason is that you expect so much more.

A first round pick who has now played 7 seasons should be a leader and should be one of our prime movers. Instead he is a peripheral player who the opposition would not lose an ounce of sleep over.

Brodie Smith has already overtaken him. By the end of the season Crouch will have. Wright has come off the rookie list and plays more midfield minutes.

He's a handy half forward who has no real impact on our games and is still prone to comical errors at key times.

And the role he plays - half forward who is our 6th/7th player in the midfield rotations is exactly the role you should be using to usher players like Lyons and Kerridge into the team, so that they learn off your A Graders. Instead that avenue into the team is sealed off by a player who is ok but won't improve.

It places a cap on our club.

Sando keeps saying that we need our good players to stand up. Hang on... aren't we all saying that Dougie's been really good? Sando is spot on. The players who matter have been down. Douglas doesn't matter.

Whole-heartedly agree....in his defence he tries hard, but too many times fluffs up when we actually needed a cool head and composure. I do agree with other posters that there are possibly others who need to go first, but I don't believe we'll ever win a flag with Dougie in our best 22.

 

[King Elvis]

I think you're being a bit harsh on Douglas; he'll never be a star or one of our best players, but for a second tier player, he's quite good.

I agree about bringing other players in through those positions, but I think there are other players who would be under the gun before him.

 

[Wood_Duck]

The reason is that you expect so much more.

A first round pick who has now played 7 seasons should be a leader and should be one of our prime movers. Instead he is a peripheral player who the opposition would not lose an ounce of sleep over.

Brodie Smith has already overtaken him. By the end of the season Crouch will have. Wright has come off the rookie list and plays more midfield minutes.

He's a handy half forward who has no real impact on our games and is still prone to comical errors at key times.

And the role he plays - half forward who is our 6th/7th player in the midfield rotations is exactly the role you should be using to usher players like Lyons and Kerridge into the team, so that they learn off your A Graders. Instead that avenue into the team is sealed off by a player who is ok but won't improve.

It places a cap on our club.

Sando keeps saying that we need our good players to stand up. Hang on... aren't we all saying that Dougie's been really good? Sando is spot on. The players who matter have been down. Douglas doesn't matter.

Mate that is extremely harsh.

Unfortunately I think its reality. Dougy has been very good this year as he was in 2011. Sadly this is a reflection on how badly we are travelling. Dougy is not our best player, not even close. The better players clearly aren't performing.

Hats of to Dougy though. He is doing everything he can possibly do. I think he is just about the only player in the team that is playing to his ability at the moment.

 

[Allefgib]

Dougie's doing all that could be asked of him and is easily in the top 5 (probably 3, may even be leading) of our B&F right now.

It's everyone else we need to see lift. Even then he makes the side ahead of Stiffy, Nutta, Porps, Vince at the moment. Use their positions to play youngsters and make them earn their way back in. Dougie's earned his spot well and truly. Undisputable.

 

[Mike Smyth]

The reason is that you expect so much more.

A first round pick who has now played 7 seasons should be a leader and should be one of our prime movers. Instead he is a peripheral player who the opposition would not lose an ounce of sleep over.

Brodie Smith has already overtaken him. By the end of the season Crouch will have. Wright has come off the rookie list and plays more midfield minutes.

He's a handy half forward who has no real impact on our games and is still prone to comical errors at key times.

And the role he plays - half forward who is our 6th/7th player in the midfield rotations is exactly the role you should be using to usher players like Lyons and Kerridge into the team, so that they learn off your A Graders. Instead that avenue into the team is sealed off by a player who is ok but won't improve.

It places a cap on our club.

Sando keeps saying that we need our good players to stand up. Hang on... aren't we all saying that Dougie's been really good? Sando is spot on. The players who matter have been down. Douglas doesn't matter.

As good as Douglas had been this year, it's hard to argue with this. Mind you, you could also say the same thing about Vince, McKay and dare I say it, Van Berlo and Porplyzia.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Douglas is close to the most in form player we have at the moment. I can't believe anybody could list him as an OUT.

 

[Glenno23]

It's not Douglas' fault the other guys are playing shit/ not to their full potential

I can't believe anyone would bag him out for that. You should be ashamed if you do

If the rest of the "better" players pulled their fingers out and played with the intensity that Dougie has, we'd be undefeated in 2013

Dougie is a great support player for when the A graders are firing. At least he's shown some ticker and some clean skills. Get the big guns firing again and Dougie in this form will create some headaches for opposition

 

[Elder van Berlo]

I actually don't mind Douglas, but in a good side he's a role player. If Douglas is your best player, you ain't playing well.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It's not Douglas' fault the other guys are playing shit/ not to their full potential

I can't believe anyone would bag him out for that. You should be ashamed if you do

If the rest of the "better" players pulled their fingers out and played with the intensity that Dougie has, we'd be undefeated in 2013

Dougie is a great support player for when the A graders are firing. At least he's shown some ticker and some clean skills. Get the big guns firing again and Dougie in this form will create some headaches for opposition

Look, this is all right.

But I don't see anyone arguing that Douglas is a difference-making A Grader. He is a handy peripheral player currently in good form. Has no impact on our team performance - we need Dangerfield, Sloane, Walker, Jacobs, Thompson to step up for the team performance to improve.

To me that is a pretty slender list of A Graders.

If we need to develop more players that can reach that A Grade level then it means that our love affair with steady B Graders must cease. At the very least they must be picked after a player like Jarryd Lyons.

And if Lyons is just a good SANFL player who the coaches think isn't worth investing early games in, then he must be delisted. Get another rookie on the list, someone with potential upside. Don't waste years on a potential mid-ranger. They can be found very, very easily in the state leagues.

The A Graders must be surrounded by footballers with the potential to be A Graders. Then the 22 is filled up with your role players. Not the other way round. I've said before that the SANFL is not a finishing school.

The club loves finishing mid table and most posters seem fairly content with that. From the many threads posters are adamant that we can't possibly trade any of our 12-25 players because they are so awesome... oh, and they wouldn't be worth much anyway even though they are awesome so no point trading. And we aren't in the draft so can't get any good players this way. So essentially we can only be as good as we are.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Brett James still > Dickie Douglas

 

[Glenno23]

Look, this is all right.

But I don't see anyone arguing that Douglas is a difference-making A Grader. He is a handy peripheral player currently in good form. Has no impact on our team performance - we need Dangerfield, Sloane, Walker, Jacobs, Thompson to step up for the team performance to improve.

To me that is a pretty slender list of A Graders.

If we need to develop more players that can reach that A Grade level then it means that our love affair with steady B Graders must cease. At the very least they must be picked after a player like Jarryd Lyons.

And if Lyons is just a good SANFL player who the coaches think isn't worth investing early games in, then he must be delisted. Get another rookie on the list, someone with potential upside. Don't waste years on a potential mid-ranger. They can be found very, very easily in the state leagues.

The A Graders must be surrounded by footballers with the potential to be A Graders. Then the 22 is filled up with your role players. Not the other way round. I've said before that the SANFL is not a finishing school.

The club loves finishing mid table and most posters seem fairly content with that. From the many threads posters are adamant that we can't possibly trade any of our 12-25 players because they are so awesome... oh, any they wouldn't be worth much anyway even though they are awesome so no point trading. And we aren't in the draft so can't get any good players this way. So essentially we can only be as good as we are.

I 100% get what you're saying. I want to see what Lyons has to offer. As i've stated elsewhere, i've got a gut feeling that he'll be a player

But you can't have a team full of A graders, you need players like Dougie in the support crew. If he stays in the form he is, he'll be great support, providing our top liners get their shit together

I was merely stating i think its unfair that Dougie gets picked on, when he is an ideal 12-18 player in a team. There are plenty of others i'd rather drop right now to see Lyons get a game than Dougie

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I 100% get what you're saying. I want to see what Lyons has to offer. As i've stated elsewhere, i've got a gut feeling that he'll be a player

But you can't have a team full of A graders, you need players like Dougie in the support crew. If he stays in the form he is, he'll be great support, providing our top liners get their shit together

I was merely stating i think its unfair that Dougie gets picked on, when he is an ideal 12-18 player in a team. There are plenty of others i'd rather drop right now to see Lyons get a game than Dougie

What happens though is that you say someone like Douglas is an ideal 12-18 player and there are other players in the squad whose form is of similar standard, then you are obligated to pick all of them.

We have a plethora of B Graders and have for years and years. They clog up our 22, perform just well enough to hold their spot but not well enough to have a significant positive impact on our fortunes.

The fact that Stevens was keeping Phil Davis out of the team is a case in point. That type of thing should never happen in a million years. But it has since 2005.

Taking the inherited Goodwin-McLeod-Ricciuto-Edwards champions out of the equation, we have not developed/gathered enough A Grade quality talent to have a genuine crack at a flag.

 

[Glenno23]

What happens though is that you say someone like Douglas is an ideal 12-18 player and there are other players in the squad whose form is of similar standard, then you are obligated to pick all of them.

We have a plethora of B Graders and have for years and years. They clog up our 22, perform just well enough to hold their spot but not well enough to have a significant positive impact on our fortunes.

The fact that Stevens was keeping Phil Davis out of the team is a case in point. That type of thing should never happen in a million years. But it has since 2005.

Taking the inherited Goodwin-McLeod-Ricciuto-Edwards champions out of the equation, we have not developed/gathered enough A Grade quality talent to have a genuine crack at a flag.

I guess its almost the chicken and the egg scenario. The B Graders perform well enough to keep us away from the uber spud clubs at the bottom (Port, Melbourne, Richmond etc) and we either scrape into the 8 or just miss

We don't top up with A grade talent due to not having a top 5 pick any time recently and we keep playing the B graders

Then when we do finish lowish (14th) GWS have all of the top picks anyway and we end up with a pick around 10, instead of 5

 

[Dandy_GO]

I'm not sure our list has enough "potential" to be throwing away players like Douglas. Most of the lads in the SANFL who haven't been able to crack the team have some serious flaws to their games. Guys like Smith and Crouch, who clearly have the potential to exceed Dougie, have been given plenty of chances.
I'm not 100% happy with our youth policy, but I don't think getting rid of Douglas would help us any more than it'd hurt us. A youth/rebuild policy would be dumb with our sanctions.
I think we're better off playing to our maximum. Not only is a winning culture good for our youngsters, it probably helps us when luring over opposition players too.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I'm not sure that the claim that Douglas has no impact on games is actually true at the moment. In the brisbane game something like his first 6 touches resulted in scores.

 

[Southerntakeover]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-04-20/unfit-words-got-douglas-in-shape

Further to my last post:

'
As arguably his side's biggest improver this year, the 26-year-old's statistics so far in 2013 are telling.

For the first time since his club champion season of 2010, Douglas has averaged more than 20 disposals a game; his average marks (5.3) and tackles (3.7) a game are at career-best rates.

He's also averaging almost two goals a game, more than double the level he was at when he took home the gold jacket at the Crows' best and fairest three seasons ago. '

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'm not sure that the claim that Douglas has no impact on games is actually true at the moment. In the brisbane game something like his first 6 touches resulted in scores.

Yep, him (or Stevens or whoever) are merely a poster boy for the player type.

If he's one of the handful of mid-range players we stick to, no worries. But it's if we stick with all his buddies too that I have issue with.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'm not sure our list has enough "potential" to be throwing away players like Douglas. Most of the lads in the SANFL who haven't been able to crack the team have some serious flaws to their games. Guys like Smith and Crouch, who clearly have the potential to exceed Dougie, have been given plenty of chances.
I'm not 100% happy with our youth policy, but I don't think getting rid of Douglas would help us any more than it'd hurt us. A youth/rebuild policy would be dumb with our sanctions.
I think we're better off playing to our maximum. Not only is a winning culture good for our youngsters, it probably helps us when luring over opposition players too.

I'm sure this is exactly the club's attitude.

The risk of any sort of clean out or significant youth investment is too great - erode culture, fall down the table, no guarantee that the kids will turn into anything better than the players they replace, attractive place for recruits etc.

How do you think it has worked out for us?

 

[Glenno23]

Yep, him (or Stevens or whoever) are merely a poster boy for the player type.

If he's one of the handful of mid-range players we stick to, no worries. But it's if we stick with all his buddies too that I have issue with.

I'd be happy to move some of his mates on and keep him in the side. Get the Lyons types in for his mates. No probs. Dougie in this form would cause a headache for opposition coaches with Danger, Thommo, Sloane and Wright all in form

 

[PykeDream]

As arguably his side's biggest improver this year, the 26-year-old's statistics so far in 2013 are telling.

For the first time since his club champion season of 2010, Douglas has averaged more than 20 disposals a game; his average marks (5.3) and tackles (3.7) a game are at career-best rates.

He's also averaging almost two goals a game, more than double the level he was at when he took home the gold jacket at the Crows' best and fairest three seasons ago. '

I was surprised reading that the club was so blunt about his fitness. Thought he was the sort of guy that would have learnt more toward the VB extreme than Vince's on the scale of work ethic and dedication.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I was surprised reading that the club was so blunt about his fitness.

What I read into that, was not that lack of fitness was the issue - it was the wrong type of fitness.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Yep, him (or Stevens or whoever) are merely a poster boy for the player type.

If he's one of the handful of mid-range players we stick to, no worries. But it's if we stick with all his buddies too that I have issue with.

Look, I don't have any real problem with your over arching logic, however I do feel that you're too inflexible in your application from time to time. This being one example.

The evidence in the article I posted suggests: a) Douglas actually did get a rocket at the end of last year meaning that we didnt tolerate his performance, and b) that his current performance is actually very good.

 

[Allefgib]

I'm with Pete - didn't seem like a rocket in that he wasn't 'fit enough' but that they needed to adjust the type of training he did to build the 'right type' of fitness for him to be able to show repeat efforts and then back it up again straight away.

I'm actually pleased (if all true) that our fitness isn't as bad as some 'sky is falling' types may be thinking. Proof will still be in the pudding.

Dougie operating at B+/A- levels. He is not the guy to make way for youngsters. Vince/Johncock/Petrenko/Reilly/Mackay/Porps are all guys not in good form who could do with a bit of navel gazing in the 2nds to see if they want it enough. That's plenty of opportunities.

And I say all that being quite critical of dougie falling over a number of times this year... he's just been very very good when he's been on his feet