Review Good/Bad vs Carlton - Rd 15

[I Lost My Keays]

I’m just pissed off we let spuds such as Dow and Newman screw us…

 

[dplggr47]

******* lol at all the Carlton supporters having a cry about Williams copping a week for literally smashing an opponents head into astro turf.

I think they're only complaining because Stewart (Geelong) did the same thing to Charlie Cameron and got nothing.

 

[Footypie32]

Can the spare umpire pay a free kick?

If he can’t, he’s more useless than a lame **** in an orgy.

If he can, why didn’t he?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I think once you participate in a melee you forfeit all rights to free kicks.

Williams rightfully got suspended though.

 

[Scorpus]

Very amusing that Carlton fans are getting salty about Williams being suspended for an intentional off the ball hit to the head while Fogarty got off

 

[Moonwatcher]

I think once you participate in a melee you forfeit all rights to free kicks.

Williams rightfully got suspended though.

I agree in general but would argue thumping someone's head into the ground should be treated independently.

 

[CrowBloke]

The bad.
Our turnover kings, we have 4 in the top 25 so far this year and we play a low possession game.
They average 24 per game between them and racked up 27 yesterday.



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Those players are 4 of our highest possession-getters, so statistically at least they will make more turnovers. However, it's still a curious reflection of their DE in general.
Keays still has no right foot which is bewildering to me because it's very fixable. Both Smith/Seedsman have long kicks but often kick to a crowded contest --- I'd like to see them look for loose or leading Crows more frequently. Laird is the Crows' Chicken Man --- he's everywhere, he's everywhere! --- but jeez he bombs away blindly too often even for an inside player under pressure.

Do you have any stats on Crows' turnovers that result in oppo goals, please?

 

[CrowBloke]

My first post simply stated that poorts 29+ are still giving them value, and our 29+ aren't.

Nah. Simply stated, simply wrong.
Smith/ Seedsman/ Tex are all 29+ and would be 3 of the first-picked Crows on Selection night.

Edit: afterthought. If you'd said that PA's over 29's are 'giving better value' than the Crows' over 29s, you might have a point. I dunno. To be frank, I don't give a rat's about PA's over 29s, or under 29s. 29/30/31 is all a bit too arbitrary for me, anyway.
The only 29+ Crow that I'd like to see dropped is the inconsistent Mackay who looked lost on the field against Carlton. Most posters have said that Pedlar is not fit enough for AFL but I wonder if he (or another Junior) might rise to the occasion like Thilthorpe (and Doedee years before him), after promotion in preference to Mackay.
We won't know until they are given a shot.

 

[moogerfooger]

Nah. Simply stated, simply wrong.
Smith/ Seedsman/ Tex are all 29+ and would be 3 of the first-picked Crows on Selection night.

We're still too reliant on those players. Take them out and we're back to dead last again. Like Carlton, we have a hole in the middle of our list. A Tippett sanction sized Bryce Gibbs trade sized hole.

 

[CrowBloke]

We're still too reliant on those players. Take them out and we're back to dead last again. Like Carlton, we have a hole in the middle of our list. A Tippett sanction sized Bryce Gibbs trade sized hole.

I've edited my original post.
We're reliant on them in that they are still 3 of our best players, top 8 not just best-22.
Every team is "reliant" upon their better players. What do you mean by "too reliant", please? Someone else also suggested that without Tex we'd have Pick One, "though". I don't get it.
Drop or retire Tex, so that we can win another spoon and Pick#1? Nah.

 

[moogerfooger]

I've edited my original post.
We're reliant on them in that they are still 3 of our best players, top 8 not just best-22.
Every team is "reliant" upon their better players. What do you mean by "too reliant", please? Someone else also suggested that without Tex we'd have Pick One, "though". I don't get it.
Drop or retire Tex, so that we can win another spoon and Pick#1? Nah.

Ideally you don't want 80% of your forward entries going to Tex. That's over reliant.

Our next best forward is 18 and can't be expected to carry the load when Tex retires in a year or two.

 

[CrowBloke]

But I guess embracing the mathematical chance of making the 8 is a difficult habit to break.

Yeah, makes no sense does it, in a post-spoon rebuild year?
From memory, we went top in '98 from fifth (yep, just checked it; also noticed we had the best % of any team, and least Points Against + by the GF, NM were on an 11-game winning streak, man, what a year!). The Bulldogs went Top in 2016 from 7th.
"Making the 8" means playing Final/s, but unless you finish Top 4, you're not much chance for the Flag. This year, the Premiers will come from Melbourne/Bulldogs/Geelong/Brisbane. My preference would be Brisbane, but Geelong are formidable at their best. Suppose for a moment we'd beaten Freo/Hawthorn/Collingwood/Carlton and finished 7th or 8th (Pick 11 or 12), then lose our first Final.
Would that be better than finishing up with Pick 3 or 4 --- still no Flag, but a chance to Draft a gun mid.? I've been up all night (insomnia *twitch gibber*) and just do not know.

 

[CrowBloke]

Ideally you don't want 80% of your forward entries going to Tex. That's over reliant.
Our next best forward is 18 and can't be expected to carry the load when Tex retires in a year or two.

I'd like to see stats on that. Do 80% of them go to Tex (that would be over reliant)? The best teams appear to find their leading forwards much more often than the Crows.
The blokes delivering to our F50 do not seem to have enough time to spot the KPF in the best position and just bomb away. I don't know whether they are under pressure (slowness, poor positioning) or if they just kick and hope without looking. I've seen some good delivery from Schoenberg, Sholl and on occasion Keays, but Smith/Seedsman/Laird are Hail Mary long-bombers.

 

[CrowBloke]

Yep, completely agree. Too late this year, but Tex next year needs to be a supporting actor to the TT and Fog show

*shaking head slowly*
This year, Tex is playing much better than both of them, as he should with his experience. He's our best forward, streets ahead. If he's playing better than them next year, why should he be "a supporting actor" to them?

 

[Bearded Clam]

*shaking head slowly*
This year, Tex is playing much better than both of them, as he should with his experience. He's our best forward, streets ahead. If he's playing better than them next year, why should he be "a supporting actor" to them?

Maybe because it is detremental to our future?.

 

[CrowBloke]

We have to keep installing ball and defensive aggression into our team to move forward but have to offer more than that for us to move forward.

Wait, what? The Crows have to do X "to move forward" but they have to offer more than that, to move forward ...?

Remember the controlled aggro vs. Geelong in the 2017 PF? We saw signs of that in our first-Round win and vs. Melbourne this year + run + pressure + 4-quarter effort.
Controlled aggression, when sustained, puts the wind up oppo teams, makes them hear footsteps via perceived pressure. Think: Brisbane/Hawthorn during their three-peats. When McHenry loses his cool and throws his (puny) weight around when the ball is dead instead of attacking the ball and/or player with the ball, he looks like an ill-tempered hothead with an inferiority complex. His previous 3/4 games showed a good balance of controlled aggro and skill, to which he must return to be effective for the Crows.

 

[CrowBloke]

Maybe because it is detremental to our future?

Tex playing well now is leadership-by-example for Thilthorpe and Fogarty. He's showing them now what to do after he's gone, which can only be good for their, and the Crows', futures.

 

[CrowBloke]

Kicked an important 45m+ set shot.

Yes, one goal. Fog kicked two in the first quarter, after which he was invisible, but the Crows still lost the game.
Their collective impact was not enough. Both need to play smarter-for-longer, especially about where/when to let out their aggro, to have game-result impact.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Tex playing well now is leadership-by-example for Thilthorpe and Fogarty. He's showing them now what to do after he's gone, which can only be good for their, and the Crows', futures.

Yep, sure.. but at the same time with tex there it is also clear watching the games that there is a massive focus on tex..

The ball is almost always directed toward him.

This isnt a always a good thing for the development of fog and TT.

 

[CrowBloke]

Yep, sure.. but at the same time with tex there it is also clear watching the games that there is a massive focus on tex..
The ball is almost always directed toward him.
This isnt a always a good thing for the development of fog and TT.

Isn't that because he's our best forward, often in the best position (nous, experience) AND has kicked 40 goals, plus he has presence, composure and balance?
Let's say you're Schoenberg, you've got the ball, not under pressure, lower your eyes and look forward. Who are you looking for, initially?
Tex, just as the Cats look for Hawkins, the Blues look for McKay, the Eagles look for Kennedy, Richmond look for Riewoldt etc. It's not a team instruction, but human nature, to look for your Alpha forward BUT, by all means, kick it to Fog or Filthy if they are in a better position to take possession and goal. That's imperative.
It's a split-second decision, however, and if the delivery-players are ignoring better options in favour of Tex, yes, that's a flaw. I don't see it myself, but I miss a lot of what's happening from the narrow focus of TV.

 

[CrowBloke]

I know what you’re saying and I want to go there but six points to start the quarter against the rabble was just not very good. And the two late goals iced the sh!t cake.

I felt the same at the time. At 0.6 then 2.6 to zip, I was not happy. Could easily have been 5.3 after which the Blues might have become demoralised and dropped their bundle. VERY hard to come back from a 33-point deficit. The Crows came back from 5.6 to zip the game before and it was deemed a miracle.
At 2.6 to 2.0 (2 quick, easy goals just like the run of 4 goals late in the second), I was even less happy. All that work/dominance, for a 6-point lead. "Scoreboard pressure" has become a cliche but it's real and has impact.
If I was a Blues player at 1/4 time, I'd have been thinking "We can win this", and they did.

 

[SugarShane]

The bad.
Our turnover kings, we have 4 in the top 25 so far this year and we play a low possession game.
They average 24 per game between them and racked up 27 yesterday.



View attachment 1166323

Thank god we don't have some of the other potatoes on that list playing for us like Dusty, Trac and Bont.

 

[Maddogmetro]

AFL scraping some income together I see

Lachie Plowman, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.
A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1000 sanction.


Ned McHenry, Adelaide Crows, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1000 sanction.


Liam Stocker, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1000 sanction.


Riley Thilthorpe, Adelaide Crows, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1000 sanction.


Sam Docherty, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1500 sanction with an early plea.

A second offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $2500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1500 sanction.


Ben Keays, Adelaide Crows, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1000 sanction.


Jack Martin, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1000 sanction.


Darcy Fogarty, Adelaide Crows, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1000 sanction.


Sam Docherty, Carlton, has been charged with Striking (Fixed Financial Sanction) Riley Thilthorpe, Adelaide Crows during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a $1500 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Striking (Fixed Financial Sanction). The incident was classified as a $2500 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $1500 sanction with an early plea.


Zac Williams, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in Rough Conduct against Ben Keays, Adelaide Crows, during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.

In summary, he can accept a one-match sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Intentional Conduct, Low Impact, High Contact. The incident was classified as a one-match sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a one-match sanction with an early plea.

Did Fog really even engage in the melee? He just got set upon, and basically stood there as 5 Carlton players tried to drag him to the ground.

 

[footy4ever]

Very amusing that Carlton fans are getting salty about Williams being suspended for an intentional off the ball hit to the head while Fogarty got off

When Fog first crashed into Whats-his-face, initial impression, it looked really bad, but then on replay, meh, just a good bash and crash. He actually 'pulled his punch' because he could've put Weitering into next week. Not even close to being reportable.

Salty Carlton fans win something and get all chest puffy LOL.

 

[70lethal]

Thank god we don't have some of the other potatoes on that list playing for us like Dusty, Trac and Bont.

It would be nice if our potatoes could hit the scoreboard like those you mentioned and win games off their own boot.
Go and compare the decision making and deliver of those 3 to our 4 and realise how stupid your comment is.

 

[jenny61_99]

******* lol at all the Carlton supporters having a cry about Williams copping a week for literally smashing an opponent's head into astro turfed covered concrete.

Fixed that for you.