Greatest Australian XI

[IgnorantArmies]

Just for something to do over the off-season, I'd like to get people to name what they think is the greatest Australian cricket team.

Rules:

• Can be chosen from all eras.
• Must be able to play as a team eg. 9 batsmen and 2 bowlers wouldn't crack it; don't name all opening batsmen
• Must name a wicketkeeper and a captain and vice-captain
• A little explanation would be good.

My XI:
1 Victor Trumper - greatest batsman before Bradman, playing on shït pitches still averaged 40. Brilliant strokemaker. Would've been amazing to watch in the modern day.
2 Bill Ponsford - run accumulator - averaged 65 in first-class cricket, twice scored over 400. Hayden, Simpson and Morris were all in contention for this position but I felt with all the other attacking batsmen someone who could just stay in and score runs was necessary.
3 Don Bradman - no explanation needed at all
4 Greg Chappell - brilliant strokemaker, best batsman in the 70s for Australia.
5 Allan Border (c) - tough batsman who averaged over 50 in 156 Tests, captained Australia through the 1980s to become the best team in the world. Underbowled himself a bit - once took 10 in a match against the Windies.
6 Keith Miller - Australia's greatest all-rounder - attacking batsman who could've averaged 50 if he concentrated, opened the bowling for Australia and demolished the Poms several times with Lindwall.
7 Adam Gilchrist (wk) reinvented the role of wicketkeeper. Athletic keeper and brilliant, attacking batsman who could've batted up the order if needed.
8 Shane Warne (vc) - greatest spin bowler ever. Great tactical mind as well.
9 Dennis Lillee - one of the greatest pace bowlers ever
10 Bill O'Reilly - gets the nod as the second spin bowler. His inventiveness edges out Benaud and Grimmett (and MacGill of course )
11 Glenn McGrath - able to average under 22 against batsmen such as Tendulkar, Kallis and Pietersen. First-change bowler to tie down one end while Miller and Lillee are destroying at the other.

12th man would go to Andrew Symonds or Mike Hussey - best fielders we've ever had.

The only trouble I had was over the opening positions - any one of Trumper, Simpson, Taylor, Morris, Ponsford, Hayden, Langer could've been in. I thought choosing one graceful, attacking batsman and one accumulator would work in the team's favour.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Ricky Ponting would have to be 12th man

 

[western royboy]

I would probably reluctantly exclude Border for Ponting and trade out Tiger for Alan Davidson with Ray Lindwall 12th man.

 

[Bomber Bears]

I keep O'Reilly if you have Miller McGrath and Lillee to bowl quick.

(although there might be a case for Davidson over Lillee)

 

[courtjester]

1. Bill Ponsford- Batsman capable of making very big scores. Batted for long times.

2. Bill Lawry- Remarkable batsman capable of batting through the innings. Faced some of the best English quicks and succeeded.

3. Don Bradman- Handy bat so they say.

4. Greg Chappell- Played during the period of some of the greatest pace bowlers and succeeded.

5. Ricky Ponting- Coming in at 5 to score quickly

6. Allan Border- I know most people pick Miller at 6 in these teams, but I prefer the 6 best batsmen in the top six. Miller apparently would've been a better batsman had he concentrated more, and a better bowler if he could've been bothered. I'd rather go with Border.

7. Adam Gilchrist- Great keeper and explosive bat.

8. Alan Davidson- Economical left arm quick and more than handy lower order bat. Brilliant fieldsman.

9. Shane Warne (c)- Brilliant, and ridiculously competitive. Captain.

10. Dennis Lillee- Combative and intimidating quick. Rose to the big occasion.

11. Glenn McGrath- Our greatest fast bowler, economical and deadly.


12th- Keith Miller- Could be a bowler or a batsman if needed.

 

[jknothimjustafan]

I can pick a full team, ive tried this before and never been able to do it properly without picking holes in my own selections.

The only ones to definately be there and that should be in every side...

3. Bradman (c)
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
10. Lillie
11. McGrath

All other positions are very much an individual preference thing and arguaments can be made for a few players.

 

[courtjester]

Best fielding team...

Mark Taylor (1st/2nd slip)
David Boon (Short leg/Silly mid)
Ian Chappell (1st/2nd slip)
Mark Waugh (2nd/3rd slip)
Ricky Ponting (Point)
Steve Waugh (Mid Off/On)
Andrew Symonds (Cover)
Richie Benaud (Gully)
Don Tallon (WK)
Alan Davidson (Outfield)
Craig McDermott (Outfield)

 

[Phone]

I can pick a full team, ive tried this before and never been able to do it properly without picking holes in my own selections.

The only ones to definately be there and that should be in every side...

3. Bradman (c)
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
10. Lillie
11. McGrath

All other positions are very much an individual preference thing and arguaments can be made for a few players.

Not really. As above Tallon is considered one of the best Australian keepers ever and with the Don in the team does your keeper really need to be able to bat? bert oldfield too.

 

[Phone]

and so with that

1 Victor Trumper
2 Bill Ponsford
3 Don Bradman
4 Greg Chappell
5 Ricky Ponting
6 Keith Miller
7 Alan Davidson
8 Shane Warne
9 Don Tallon
10 Dennis Lillee
11 Glenn McGrath

Davidson, O'Reilly, Lindwall & Grimmett fighting out for the last bowling spot. no real right or wrong answer. most of the rest picks itself.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Best fielding team...

Mark Taylor (1st/2nd slip)
David Boon (Short leg/Silly mid)
Ian Chappell (1st/2nd slip)
Mark Waugh (2nd/3rd slip)
Ricky Ponting (Point)
Steve Waugh (Mid Off/On)
Andrew Symonds (Cover)
Richie Benaud (Gully)
Don Tallon (WK)
Alan Davidson (Outfield)
Craig McDermott (Outfield)

That's an interesting team. Bob Simpson was as good in slips as any of the ones you've mentioned though they are all very good.

Brett Lee might squeeze into the outfield and Mike Hussey has been - up till the past year - a superb gully fielder. Since he joined the team, apart from Symonds, he's been the safest pair of hands we have.

 

[crownie]

these threads come up all the time and i think apart from the openers it basically picks itself as we have had some excellent openers with none being stand outs.

???
???
Bradman
Ponting
Chappel
Border
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

12th man Steve Waugh

 

[courtjester]

1. Bill Ponsford- Batsman capable of making very big scores. Batted for long times.

2. Bill Lawry- Remarkable batsman capable of batting through the innings. Faced some of the best English quicks and succeeded.

3. Don Bradman- Handy bat so they say.

4. Greg Chappell- Played during the period of some of the greatest pace bowlers and succeeded.

5. Ricky Ponting- Coming in at 5 to score quickly

6. Allan Border- I know most people pick Miller at 6 in these teams, but I prefer the 6 best batsmen in the top six. Miller apparently would've been a better batsman had he concentrated more, and a better bowler if he could've been bothered. I'd rather go with Border.

7. Adam Gilchrist- Great keeper and explosive bat.

8. Alan Davidson- Economical left arm quick and more than handy lower order bat. Brilliant fieldsman.

9. Shane Warne (c)- Brilliant, and ridiculously competitive. Captain.

10. Dennis Lillee- Combative and intimidating quick. Rose to the big occasion.

11. Glenn McGrath- Our greatest fast bowler, economical and deadly.


12th- Keith Miller- Could be a bowler or a batsman if needed.

Probably makes it interesting to pick a second XI as well.

1. Arthur Morris
2. Matthew Hayden
3. Ian Chappell
4. Stan McCabe
5. Doug Walters
6. Steve Waugh
7. Ian Healy
8. Ray Lindwall
9. Bill O'Reilly
10. Jason Gillespie
11. Clarrie Grimmett

12th- Fred Spofforth

 

[Ill Chicken]

Can't we just revert back to that ESPN thread on our best test team?

 

[Lethal44]

Bill Ponsford
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Alan Davidson
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

Ricky Ponting 12th man

​

 

[The Passenger]

pretty similar team to everyone though i always go the two spinners

Ponsford, Morris, Bradman, Ponting, Chappel, Gilchrist, Miller, Warne, Lillee, O'Reilly, McGrath, Border (12)

the only positions i ever change now are the openers. Any 2 of Lawry, Ponsford, Hayden, Morris and Simpson are worthy. The number 5 batting spot was always a toss up between Tugga and AB but Punter surpassed them about 5 or 6 years ago when he was out of control in the middle and in the process pushed Chappel down the order. Had Marsh over Gilly till Gilly proved himself for a long enough period. The four bowlers and Miller haven't changed for a long time now. Bradman sneaks in.

 

[Wallaby]

Openers are the most interesting - because quite often the openers are also the best batsmen in the side. I'm not sure why Ponsford is quite so revered - his test record is basically identical to Woodfull (so is the first class record), yet Woodfull never gets a mention.
Arthur Morris benefits from the 'Bradman Rating' - anyone who played with Bradman in 46/47 or 48 was rated by Bradman in his books as incredible (ditto Tallon). And no-one argues with Bradman! But read some other reviews and look at the stats and basically Morris and Tallon do not stand out that much. Same with O'reilly and Grimmett - Bradman rated O'reilly higher, and so that is the 'gospel'. But the English always reckoned Grimmett was better.
Pre-WW1 is also a very difficult period to assess because of the scarcity of tests played and the much less media coverage. Players from that era (and it was nearly 40 years of test Cricket) deserve consideration - Clem Hill, Billy Murdoch and Joe Darling as batsmen, Spofforth, Turner and Trumble as bowlers.

Here's mine.


1 Simpson.
2. Hayden.
3. Bradman
4. G Chappell
5. Clem Hill
6. Allan Border
7. Gilchrist - for his batting (over Oldfield)
8. Warne
9. Lillee
10. McGrath or Grimmett (depending on Pitch)
11. Spofforth

12th man - Jack Gregory

4.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Players I have seen:

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
G.Chappell
Border
S. Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
McGrath
Lillee
Thomson

12th I. Chappell

Stiff: Walters, Redpath, Taylor, Marsh

 

[The Passenger]

Openers are the most interesting - because quite often the openers are also the best batsmen in the side. I'm not sure why Ponsford is quite so revered - his test record is basically identical to Woodfull (so is the first class record), yet Woodfull never gets a mention.

missing woodfull from my openers shortlist was an oversight to be fair.

there's not much seperating the top australian openers and there is no real standout.

what sets morris apart for me is his average of above 50 v england during that period. woodfull was mid 40's and beat up on south africa a bit.

the arguments for the openers can go either way. there is nothing seperating quite a number of them. but i don't know how you can put grimmet above o'reilly. grimmet beat up on south africa and west indies and struggled against the better england (ave 32). o r'eilly ave 25 v england (with some beating up v nz and saffers to bring his ave down). and his FC ave of 16 is pretty phenomenal.

performances against england and australia during that WWI to WWII period are much more important than overall figures IMO.

 

[Wallaby]

missing woodfull from my openers shortlist was an oversight to be fair.

there's not much seperating the top australian openers and there is no real standout.

what sets morris apart for me is his average of above 50 v england during that period. woodfull was mid 40's and beat up on south africa a bit.

the arguments for the openers can go either way. there is nothing seperating quite a number of them. but i don't know how you can put grimmet above o'reilly. grimmet beat up on south africa and west indies and struggled against the better england (ave 32). o r'eilly ave 25 v england (with some beating up v nz and saffers to bring his ave down). and his FC ave of 16 is pretty phenomenal.

performances against england and australia during that WWI to WWII period are much more important than overall figures IMO.

Well, Morris basically built his average by beating up England in 47/47 and 48 - when theye were historically weak. His test average wound up at 46.
Both Ponsford and Woodfull played only 2 non-ashes series - versus SA and WI. Woodfull killed the Saffers and Ponsford the Windies. Also Woodfull made all his centuries as an opener, while Ponsford made his first couple batting at No 3 and 4.

If you check the tests out where Grimmett and O'Reilly played together their records are almost identical.

But it's all conjecture - and your opinion is as good as mine (wrong though it be). I've read a learned article that claimed the batsmen in the 1800s had a far greater range of skills than today because the pitches were so crap, the ball could basically do anything. Same for the bowlers - they had a lot more tricks to exploit the huge range in conditions. Today's players are incredibly adept across a narrow range of skills - old guys had to be more rounded and adaptable. Does that make them better?

 

[Kram]

I sort of find picking these teams a bit pointless, it's just too hard when it involves a lot of players that you haven't even seen.

Best fielding team...

That is quite an interesting idea for picking an Australian team.

 

[western royboy]

I sort of find picking these teams a bit pointless, it's just too hard when it involves a lot of players that you haven't even seen.

I'm hearing you but there is so much literature and stats that makes it at least a bit more accurate than the footy equivalent. At the end of the day it's just another set of opinions and debates.

 

[Team DJ]

I dont really like to comment on what i havent seen Born in 89 the best players I have seen are.
Taylor (c) Slater Ponting Waugh Waugh Gilchrist Healy (wk) Warne (vc) Lee Gillespie McGrath
Rest of Squad: Langer Hayden Macgill Fleming

I picked Gilchrist as a specialist bat as I couldnt leave Healy out as he is one of the best gloveman this country has seen. Steve and Mark offer some bowling options as i didnt pick an all rounder type.

I also chose Taylor and Slater over Langer and Hayden the reason for this is i rate the opening bolwers that these guys faced much higher then what i do langer and hayden.

 

[Wallaby]

I picked Gilchrist as a specialist bat as I couldnt leave Healy out as he is one of the best gloveman this country has seen.

I used to think that too - always pick the best keeper. And Healy was better than Gilchrist (Gilchrist was not a bad test keeper in any way). However, I have come to the conclusion that it really doesn't make much difference.

Unless your keeper is at Akmal standard, it makes sense to pick the better bat. I struggle to think of too many chances that Gilchrist missed that Healy would have taken, or ones Healy took that Gilchrist would probably have missed. There's just not that many chances at that exact level of difficulty - ie Healy takes, and Gilchrist misses. Maybe one or at most two a series. And that doesn't make up for 20+ runs difference in average.

 

[courtjester]

Who would people say are certains in this team?

I'd say only

Bradman (duh!)
G.Chappell

Lillee, Warne, McGrath all close to certainties.

 

[Team DJ]

I used to think that too - always pick the best keeper. And Healy was better than Gilchrist (Gilchrist was not a bad test keeper in any way). However, I have come to the conclusion that it really doesn't make much difference.

Unless your keeper is at Akmal standard, it makes sense to pick the better bat. I struggle to think of too many chances that Gilchrist missed that Healy would have taken, or ones Healy took that Gilchrist would probably have missed. There's just not that many chances at that exact level of difficulty - ie Healy takes, and Gilchrist misses. Maybe one or at most two a series. And that doesn't make up for 20+ runs difference in average.

Good call, I'll still pick them both as no one else really stands out to me that should be there instead to bat 6.

Case and point Brad Haddin right now, i would like 1$ for every run that he has cost us in his career via drops and byes.