Harry hindsight.......show yourself!!

[Bluebear]

Each year we get halfway through the season or so......and the throng of posters comes out with "Hughes should be sacked.....player X was never going to be any good......we should have taken [insert random unknown who defied all expectations to play well from pick 61].

So here is your chance.

Name the players who you KNOW won't be any good and who should we have taken in their stead...........put it here for all to see.

 

[CTwenty]

Each year we get halfway through the season or so......and the throng of posters comes out with "Hughes should be sacked.....player X was never going to be any good......we should have taken [insert random unknown who defied all expectations to play well from pick 61].

So here is your chance.

Name the players who you KNOW won't be any good and who should we have taken in their stead...........put it here for all to see.

I'll start.

Ben Cousins instead of Chris Johnson
Anyone ahead of Darren Pfeiffer

 

[swans12]

I'll start.

Ben Cousins instead of Chris Johnson
Anyone ahead of Darren Pfeiffer

I'll second that, this was obviously the no brainer of the decade and we will get the anti cousins group going off no doubt, but if he stays clean and can return to 80% of the form he once displayed, there will be more than Carlton kicking themselves.

Once we had committed to Johnson and he stayed out of the National Draft, we were never in the race as we had committed our pick.

Maybe we should have picked him in the ND and left our PSD pick until we were sure nothing new would arise.

If I was Johnson I wouldn't have taken #9 either, as I know I for one will always be spewing in the knowledge that Cousins could have been running around in that #.

Hopefully he doesn't have an impact at Richmond.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

And if Judd didn't want Cousins there? Prepared to upset the skipper on the chance Cousins will stay clean and uninjured for a couple of years?

Really, we don't know what went down, what conflicts there may have been.

I can't make any list predictions. On the surface it seems that Bentley, Pfeiffer and Johnson will struggle to make the 22 but they may be handy depth players. A couple of project key position players would be nice. If you keep picking them up, eventually one might come off.

 

[Bluebear]

No-one for Rich/Vickory > Yarran yet?

Rookies and PSD picks probably should be excluded, but the cats out now.

Anyone nominating a player that won't make it (i.e. Pfeiffer) needs to give me the name of a player taken after him that will for this to be a prediction, rather than just a "anyone but him" thing.

Cousins will be the obvious one who will likely make it ahead of those taken before him.........so we might have to revisit this in a few years time when he has retired and they have wasted 60 games that a young kid would have got into them.

15 clubs take one step back........... and the Tiges weren't paying attention........and they are acting like they just got Judd.

 

[Kramer1]

And if Judd didn't want Cousins there? Prepared to upset the skipper on the chance Cousins will stay clean and uninjured for a couple of years?

Really, we don't know what went down, what conflicts there may have been.

I can't make any list predictions. On the surface it seems that Bentley, Pfeiffer and Johnson will struggle to make the 22 but they may be handy depth players. A couple of project key position players would be nice. If you keep picking them up, eventually one might come off.

Agree for the most part.

Certainly happy that we didn't take Cousins. Even if it pays off for Richmond as a football club and as a business you need to make the right decisions with the information you have at hand, and there's a reason 15 clubs said no.

Can't see the value in recycling Pfeiffer, Hill and Bentley. Hughes suggested Pfeiffer will be much improved with a full pre-season, but won't everyone. We seem to have a few Bentley type players on the list, but must be something there.

Would have been nice to find a few rough gems to develop as KPP in the rookie draft, but obviously wasn't much there.

Recall a guy named Justin Van Unen training with another club and was rated quite highly...any reason he wasn't picked up?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

btw Can someone PM me when Harry Hindsight shows up? He's got a really funny name and I would like to tease him a little.

 

[CTwenty]

And if Judd didn't want Cousins there? Prepared to upset the skipper on the chance Cousins will stay clean and uninjured for a couple of years?

Really, we don't know what went down, what conflicts there may have been.

I can't make any list predictions. On the surface it seems that Bentley, Pfeiffer and Johnson will struggle to make the 22 but they may be handy depth players. A couple of project key position players would be nice. If you keep picking them up, eventually one might come off.

Agree, and there are a lot of ifs in the argument, but from a ruthless perspective: Judd is on a long term contract and is probably the highest paid player in the league. Yeah he might get upset, but would he leave? A fit Cousins will be a better contributor to a grand final side than Chris Johnson. We are in it to win premierships.

But who knows, maybe Cousins didn't want to come to Carlton because Judd was there, it could run both ways.

All water under the bridge now, but it will be interesting to see how the season pans out. Round 1 will be a huge game if Cousins is fit enough to play.

 

[Silvagnis]

Can't see the value in recycling Pfeiffer, Hill and Bentley.

Maybe the club would like another big body on the list and more midfield insurance for Hadley, Bentick and possibly Stevens.

Pfeiffer can play every game next year when he will be a nominated rookie.

 

[SA Blue]

The only way to jusge a recruiter is in hindsight. Just because a person can pick the better players now, does not make their criticisms invalid. Saying that, people who expect recruiters to get it right 100% of the time are morons, and if I see one more person judging Hughes on Russell I will scream!!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Agree, and there are a lot of ifs in the argument, but from a ruthless perspective: Judd is on a long term contract and is probably the highest paid player in the league. Yeah he might get upset, but would he leave? A fit Cousins will be a better contributor to a grand final side than Chris Johnson. We are in it to win premierships.

And if we had an unhappy and disillusioned champion skipper .... how much would that affect us? It is not simply a matter of signing players and then thinking we can do what we want now that we own them.

Some players ask for trades every year and affect the morale around them. No, we look after Judd, he keeps promoting a healthy, positive atmosphere around the club, keeps making his marketing appearances, keeps instilling a sense of unity in the club and keeps being a role model for the younger guys. If there was any a sliver of a chance that Cousins could upset that, then I didn't want him.

 

[lily of laguna]

Each year we get halfway through the season or so......and the throng of posters comes out with "Hughes should be sacked.....player X was never going to be any good......we should have taken [insert random unknown who defied all expectations to play well from pick 61].

So here is your chance.

Name the players who you KNOW won't be any good and who should we have taken in their stead...........put it here for all to see.

Interesting notion BB.

The process to becoming an A grade AFL player is so complex in a lot of ways.

There are just so many variants that can impact on a player and their development. Current team structure, personal issues, personalities within the club, leadership, and of course the coaching staff and development programs.

Im sure there are many players that under achieved for various reasons, and given a different set of circumstances may have excelled or at least been better.

I know as a club we were certainly a poor option recently ( that of course has definately changed).

I think as we continue this great resurrection as a club, we will see less misses than we have witnessed in recent years.

I believe, given our new and improved structure around the place, that each and every pick we have already made this year (and those in previous years) will be given every opportunity to succeed that is possible.

Sure every team will have players that we would love on our list, even those that we looked over for whatever reason. It is those kinds of factors that will make beating the good teams even more enjoyable.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

And if Judd didn't want Cousins there? Prepared to upset the skipper on the chance Cousins will stay clean and uninjured for a couple of years?

Really, we don't know what went down, what conflicts there may have been.

Is Judd The Carlton Football Club now? If he really wanted to be good to the club, he'd put aside any personal differences he had with Cousins. We were all happy to discuss welcoming Kerr to the club, when really, he's just as much illegal as the Cousins drama, yet we were all saying no to Cousins. Both had underground 'invovlement', yet one was a yes, the other a flat no?

IF Cousins stays clean, there is no doubt we will be kicking ourselves. I am very glad to see him back as he was a brilliant player. He never hurt anyone, he just had a very big problem. He's never actually tested positive to drugs, and he's not the first and certainly not the last to use illegal substances.

If people think Cousins is the only one out there, and that there aren't any at Carlton taking stuff, they're dreaming.

 

[CTwenty]

Is Judd The Carlton Football Club now? If he really wanted to be good to the club, he'd put aside any personal differences he had with Cousins. We were all happy to discuss welcoming Kerr to the club, when really, he's just as much illegal as the Cousins drama, yet we were all saying no to Cousins. Both had underground 'invovlement', yet one was a yes, the other a flat no?

IF Cousins stays clean, there is no doubt we will be kicking ourselves. I am very glad to see him back as he was a brilliant player. He never hurt anyone, he just had a very big problem. He's never actually tested positive to drugs, and he's not the first and certainly not the last to use illegal substances.

If people think Cousins is the only one out there, and that there aren't any at Carlton taking stuff, they're dreaming.

Spot on sister

 

[choo]

Looking at our list changes over the summer;

IN

Warnock
Yarran
Robinson
O'Keeffe
Tiller
Johnston
Garlett
Stanton
Bentley


OUT
Ackland
Jackson
Blackwell
Benjamin
Aisake


Looks a much better balance and better suited to our game plan.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

It's just a very bizarre situation, how supporters were opening arms for Kerr, yet wouldn't look twice at the Cousins option, when really in black and white terms, they have both been in the shiz.

With a fit Cousins next year, there is no doubt whatsoever we would be playing finals footy.

Fans are a very fickle bunch. The media plays on it for all it's worth, and the media has really ripped into the Cousins situation. Look at Ablett, he was with a young girl, drug infested environment in which she ends up dying, yet he is still a hero and all that rubbish.

Fans think what the media wants them to, and in the case of Cousins, they've gone at him from all angles.

 

[HARKER]

It's just a very bizarre situation, how supporters were opening arms for Kerr, yet wouldn't look twice at the Cousins option, when really in black and white terms, they have both been in the shiz.

With a fit Cousins next year, there is no doubt whatsoever we would be playing finals footy.

Fans are a very fickle bunch. The media plays on it for all it's worth, and the media has really ripped into the Cousins situation. Look at Ablett, he was with a young girl, drug infested environment in which she ends up dying, yet he is still a hero and all that rubbish.

Fans think what the media wants them to, and in the case of Cousins, they've gone at him from all angles.

I don't need hindsight to know we made the right decision in not taking Cousins. Can you picture Judd having to sit next to him through all the press conferences about Ben and his issues.

No thanks. I would rather our boys had their minds on their footy

If you need any convincing of that, just have a look at Nathan Browns body language at being asked what he thought of Cousins at being at his club.

End of Story

 

[HARKER]

Warnock: "Carlton heading the league with mid field take aways"

Yarran: We will regret not taking Ziebell but I fully understand at reasons for taking Yarran.

Robinson: "Carlton unearth a star of the future"

Gibbs: "Unexpected Brwonlow win delights Carlton fans"

Cousins: "Eddie all smiles as Cousins arrested for footy betting collusion racket"

Bentick: Carlton's trust in Bentick vindicated in a stellar season

Russell: Being offered as trade bait to secure key forward.

 

[lily of laguna]

It's just a very bizarre situation, how supporters were opening arms for Kerr, yet wouldn't look twice at the Cousins option, when really in black and white terms, they have both been in the shiz.

With a fit Cousins next year, there is no doubt whatsoever we would be playing finals footy.

Fans are a very fickle bunch. The media plays on it for all it's worth, and the media has really ripped into the Cousins situation. Look at Ablett, he was with a young girl, drug infested environment in which she ends up dying, yet he is still a hero and all that rubbish.

Fans think what the media wants them to, and in the case of Cousins, they've gone at him from all angles.

I take it AWG that you would have picked cousins then?

 

[NWTYRX]

The reason is simple

Kerr = 25 years old
Cousins = 30 years old

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

Is Judd The Carlton Football Club now? If he really wanted to be good to the club, he'd put aside any personal differences he had with Cousins. We were all happy to discuss welcoming Kerr to the club, when really, he's just as much illegal as the Cousins drama, yet we were all saying no to Cousins. Both had underground 'invovlement', yet one was a yes, the other a flat no?

IF Cousins stays clean, there is no doubt we will be kicking ourselves. I am very glad to see him back as he was a brilliant player. He never hurt anyone, he just had a very big problem. He's never actually tested positive to drugs, and he's not the first and certainly not the last to use illegal substances.

If people think Cousins is the only one out there, and that there aren't any at Carlton taking stuff, they're dreaming.

Where the **** have you been reading?

As far as I know, Kerr was a flat 'no' as well.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Is Judd The Carlton Football Club now? If he really wanted to be good to the club, he'd put aside any personal differences he had with Cousins. We were all happy to discuss welcoming Kerr to the club, when really, he's just as much illegal as the Cousins drama, yet we were all saying no to Cousins. Both had underground 'invovlement', yet one was a yes, the other a flat no?

IF Cousins stays clean, there is no doubt we will be kicking ourselves. I am very glad to see him back as he was a brilliant player. He never hurt anyone, he just had a very big problem. He's never actually tested positive to drugs, and he's not the first and certainly not the last to use illegal substances.

If people think Cousins is the only one out there, and that there aren't any at Carlton taking stuff, they're dreaming.

If you didn't see it AWG, the point probably whizzed by your left ear while you were looking right.

My point isn't about Cousins taking drugs, my point is in relation to speculation about Judd not being happy with Cousins, about Judd wanting out of the Eagles because of the continued indiscretions, about feeling responsible as captain for players that were not learning their lessons.

Now I don't know if any of this speculation was true, but neither do any of us. If it is true, I would expect the club to ask Judd for his opinion. There was already enough doubt over Cousins, any more doubt from our best player and the issue is put to bed.

You have made another assumption in saying that everybody wanted Kerr when that is not the case. We were more prepared to entertain the Kerr idea because a) he is supposedly mates with Judd b) he is a lot younger than Cousins and has more years left in the game c) is not known to be a drug addict; but there were still many doubts expressed.

Also wasn't it Cousins and Gardiner who have underworld connections? Kerr just talked to a drug dealer.

 

[HBF]

No one is questioning Cousins' footballibg ability, but you would have to question what kind of baggage he would bring to the club. Also, he's 30 years old, coming off a terrible hamstring injury, a recovering drug addict, and hasn't played a game of footy for near on 18 months when round 1 rolls. The club have made the right choice here.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

At the end of the day, I'm just a supporter and member.

Roll on Round 1

 

[CTwenty]

No one is questioning Cousins' footballibg ability, but you would have to question what kind of baggage he would bring to the club. Also, he's 30 years old, coming off a terrible hamstring injury, a recovering drug addict, and hasn't played a game of footy for near on 18 months when round 1 rolls. The club have made the right choice here.

So who will bring more to the club, Cousins or Johnson?