Analysis Hawthorn's Drafting over the last 10 years

[tige19]

It's now at the point that I will be relieved more than excited if we land one of these guys. All the stars have aligned and it would be a big disappointment if we don't

We may be average at drafting talent but we sure can trade for them and get them via free agency, I have faith

 

[killerspud]

We may be average at drafting talent but we sure can trade for them and get them via free agency, I have faith

Another dumb post - how are we average at drafting talent???

we traded to get the number one pick and got Hodge. We had more top ten talent in Franklin, Roughead, Lewis. We got Smith, Burton, Birchall and Rioli in the teens.

Our record of turning lower picks into gold is amazing - Sam Mitchell, Sicily, Puopolo, Stratton, Hardwick, Hill, Shiels,

Seriously just think about what you are posting rather than shooting your mouth off - you can't become a flag winning team by free agency and trading alone just as you can't win a flag solely from the draft

 

[tige19]

Another dumb post - how are we average at drafting talent???

we traded to get the number one pick and got Hodge. We had more top ten talent in Franklin, Roughead, Lewis. We got Smith, Burton, Birchall and Rioli in the teens.

Our record of turning lower picks into gold is amazing - Sam Mitchell, Sicily, Puopolo, Stratton, Hardwick, Hill, Shiels,

Seriously just think about what you are posting rather than shooting your mouth off - you can't become a flag winning team by free agency and trading alone just as you can't win a flag solely from the draft

My opinion is from 2008 our drafting has been poor, you can like it or not I couldn't give 2 shits pal.

PS. Theres plenty who agree with me

 

[tige19]

Nothing annoys me more than hearing that Hawthorn only trades players in/relies on FA.

Worse when it’s said by your own

The brown nose himself... Who from the last 10 years of drafting with our first selections has turned out to be a good contributor at AFL level? I will give you Isaac Smith, maybe Ryan Burton but the jury is still out.

 

[Gralin]

The brown nose himself... Who from the last 10 years of drafting with our first selections has turned out to be a good contributor at AFL level? I will give you Isaac Smith, maybe Ryan Burton but the jury is still out.

pick a team to compare to over that 10 year period that you think does it better with just their first pick each draft (your criteria)
Hawks Below
1st Round Picks
2008 Schoenmakers
2010 Smith
2015 Burton

2nd Round Pick
2011 Brad Hill
2012 Tim O'Brien
2013 Billy Hartung
2014 Daniel Howe

3rd Round Pick
2009 Sam Grimley
2017 James Worpel

5th Round Pick
2016 Harry Morrison

Smith and Hill were 100% passes
Schoenmakers was part of a flag, Burton too early to tell but looks good

Hartung and Grimley you can call failures

O'Brien heading that way

Howe, Morrison and Worpel too early to tell

 

[HODGEYROAD]

pick a team to compare to over that 10 year period that you think does it better with just their first pick each draft (your criteria)
Hawks Below
1st Round Picks
2008 Schoenmakers
2010 Smith
2015 Burton

2nd Round Pick
2011 Brad Hill
2012 Tim O'Brien
2013 Billy Hartung
2014 Daniel Howe

3rd Round Pick
2009 Sam Grimley
2017 James Worpel

5th Round Pick
2016 Harry Morrison

Smith and Hill were 100% passes
Schoenmakers was part of a flag, Burton too early to tell but looks good

Hartung and Grimley you can call failures

O'Brien heading that way

Howe, Morrison and Worpel too early to tell

So was Renouf in 2008, I think that's a pretty simplistic way of calling him a success as a 1st round pick. I know Renouf was a 2nd round pick but I'm just making an example.

 

[Brishawk]

The brown nose himself... Who from the last 10 years of drafting with our first selections has turned out to be a good contributor at AFL level? I will give you Isaac Smith, maybe Ryan Burton but the jury is still out.

Apart from the fact you are essentially whinging about not winning the draft lotto compare with other teams that have yet somehow didn’t win three premierships in the last ten years, has our first pick drafting actually been bad?
2008 pick 16, shoey (premiership player plus Breust and Sheils)
2009pick 39 Grimley (3 premiership players from that draft)
2010 pick pick 19 smith (premiership player plus poppy)
2011 pick 33 hill (premiership player)
2012 pick 28 O’Brien (current best 22 )
2013 pick 24 Hartung (also Sicily plus elevated Ceglar and Langford)
2014 pick 31 Howe
2015 pick 19 Burton (and Hardwick later)
2016 pick 74 Morrison
2017 pick 45 worpel

Apart from Grimley all of those player are/we’re best 22 and/or premiership players. Not a single pick in the top 15 let alone top 10. Is that what you are really complaining about? That we haven’t drafted anyone in the top 10 because we have either been too good or traded out our picks?

Let’s look at the players we recruited using those draft picks:
Burgoyne
Hale
Gibson
Lake
McEvoy
Frawley (free agent)
Simpkin (free agent)
^premiership players

O’Rourke
Omeara
Mitchell

Can you honestly imagine picking the same caliber of player in the draft at the same strike rate of success? That really would be winning the draft lottery!

 

[Brishawk]

So was Renouf in 2008, I think that's a pretty simplistic way of calling him a success as a 1st round pick. I know Renouf was a 2nd round pick but I'm just making an example.

Isn’t the goal to win premierships? Don’t be like St Kilda and bleat on about all the great players they have drafted to never win a premiership. It’s pathetic when they do it...

Besides, shoey played in all the grand finals for which he was fully fit. Clearly clarko valued him.

 

[Gralin]

So was Renouf in 2008, I think that's a pretty simplistic way of calling him a success as a 1st round pick. I know Renouf was a 2nd round pick but I'm just making an example.

Would you call 100+ games, 2 grand finals and a flag not a good AFL contributor?

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Isn’t the goal to win premierships? Don’t be like St Kilda and bleat on about all the great players they have drafted to never win a premiership. It’s pathetic when they do it...

Besides, shoey played in all the grand finals for which he was fully fit. Clearly clarko valued him.

My point is lots of battlers could be the 22nd best player in those Hawks teams and be a premiership player. Is Simpkin a better midfielder than Nathan Buckley ? Renouf a better ruck that Jim Stynes ? I think as a 1st Round pick Shoenmakers is above average for what you'd hope for that's what I'm getting at.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Would you call 100+ games, 2 grand finals and a flag not a good AFL contributor?

He's been a decent contributor yeah, but I still think slightly below the level you'd hope for when drafting a 1st round pick.

 

[Brishawk]

My point is lots of battlers could be the 22nd best player in those Hawks teams and be a premiership player. Is Simpkin a better midfielder than Nathan Buckley ? Renouf a better ruck that Jim Stynes ? I think as a 1st Round pick Shoenmakers is above average for what you'd hope for that's what I'm getting at.

Yes but consider we aren’t trying to draft the ‘best’ players, we are trying to draft the players we think will give us the best chance of winning a premeirship. We recruit for team success and shoey filled a role in our losing 2012 grand final team (lone kpd all season) and our successful 2015 side. I understand what you are saying about comparing his output across his career to an average round 1 pick but I think you would be surprised at how shit the 16-20 range is for draft picks. I’m sure you can find better individuals but unlikely to find too many with better team outcomes. And most of them would be worse individually and team wise.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Yes but consider we aren’t trying to draft the ‘best’ players, we are trying to draft the players we think will give us the best chance of winning a premeirship. We recruit for team success and shoey filled a role in our losing 2012 grand final team (lone kpd all season) and our successful 2015 side. I understand what you are saying about comparing his output across his career to an average round 1 pick but I think you would be surprised at how shit the 16-20 range is for draft picks. I’m sure you can find better individuals but unlikely to find too many with better team outcomes. And most of them would be worse individually and team wise.

Yeah I can't disagree to much with what you have said. I don't think drafting Shoey was a howler by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[threesixpio]

Yeah I can't disagree to much with what you have said. I don't think drafting Shoey was a howler by any stretch of the imagination.

It’s an annoying oft repeated point made ...

But his 2015 GF was pretty good.

 

[thejockey]

For a club that has regularly been contending since 2008 our drafting has been decent.
Have had enough hits , some misses which most clubs have even won the top picks which we essentially haven’t had

If it was that poor we would have fallen off the cliff especially after last seasons start

 

[threesixpio]

The brown nose himself... Who from the last 10 years of drafting with our first selections has turned out to be a good contributor at AFL level? I will give you Isaac Smith, maybe Ryan Burton but the jury is still out.

He he. Brown nose because I disagree with your views. Okie dokie Tige19. You just don’t like people not sucking up to you even when you post dumb shit

 

[tige19]

pick a team to compare to over that 10 year period that you think does it better with just their first pick each draft (your criteria)
Hawks Below
1st Round Picks
2008 Schoenmakers
2010 Smith
2015 Burton

2nd Round Pick
2011 Brad Hill
2012 Tim O'Brien
2013 Billy Hartung
2014 Daniel Howe

3rd Round Pick
2009 Sam Grimley
2017 James Worpel

5th Round Pick
2016 Harry Morrison

Smith and Hill were 100% passes
Schoenmakers was part of a flag, Burton too early to tell but looks good

Hartung and Grimley you can call failures

O'Brien heading that way

Howe, Morrison and Worpel too early to tell

I said our first selections not what round they where drafted.

Howe - fail
O'Brien - fail
Hartung - fail
Burton - should pass
Lovell - (a few selections later) - fail
Hill - No longer with us
Schoey - Fail (premierships have nothing to do whether you're a good draft selection or not, plenty of average footballers get flags)
Grimley - Fail
Smith - Big pass

We can even go before 2008 if you like?

Dowler - fail
Thorp - fail
Ellis - fail
Rioli - big pass

You can't say that just because a player plays in a flag it automatically makes them a great selection, if they don't play 100 games as our 1st selection in a National draft its a fail, how else can you make a case otherwise?

Chris Dawes won a premiership
Sharrod Wellingham won a premiership
Trent West won a premiership
Steven Armstrong won a premiership
Matthew Bishop won a premiership
Toby Thurstan won a premiership

Are any of those good footballers?

 

[threesixpio]

Oh FFS we recently won a threepeat - some on this board have gone f**king mad

 

[tige19]

Apart from the fact you are essentially whinging about not winning the draft lotto compare with other teams that have yet somehow didn’t win three premierships in the last ten years, has our first pick drafting actually been bad?
2008 pick 16, shoey (premiership player plus Breust and Sheils)
2009pick 39 Grimley (3 premiership players from that draft)
2010 pick pick 19 smith (premiership player plus poppy)
2011 pick 33 hill (premiership player)
2012 pick 28 O’Brien (current best 22 )
2013 pick 24 Hartung (also Sicily plus elevated Ceglar and Langford)
2014 pick 31 Howe
2015 pick 19 Burton (and Hardwick later)
2016 pick 74 Morrison
2017 pick 45 worpel

Apart from Grimley all of those player are/we’re best 22 and/or premiership players. Not a single pick in the top 15 let alone top 10. Is that what you are really complaining about? That we haven’t drafted anyone in the top 10 because we have either been too good or traded out our picks?

Let’s look at the players we recruited using those draft picks:
Burgoyne
Hale
Gibson
Lake
McEvoy
Frawley (free agent)
Simpkin (free agent)
^premiership players

O’Rourke
Omeara
Mitchell

Can you honestly imagine picking the same caliber of player in the draft at the same strike rate of success? That really would be winning the draft lottery!

Mate, you're missing my point. In previous posts I have said that we have been cunning in getting some nice later selections, I also said that we do a great job of recruiting and trading for mature aged players, just because I have bring forward facts about our poor drafting of earlyish picks we have had I get all the rose coloured brigade going berserk. Once again, I am simply talking about our early selections, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[threesixpio]

We may be average at drafting talent but we sure can trade for them and get them via free agency, I have faith

Can’t see any mention of early draft picks here. Seems like a general statement to me

 

[tige19]

Nothing annoys me more than hearing that Hawthorn only trades players in/relies on FA.

Worse when it’s said by your own

If you want to discuss the 3peat, make another thread, you're in the wrong place. What does the 3peat have to do with anything?

 

[Gralin]

I'm putting this in it's own thread so it doesn't get lost/drown out the trade thread

 

[tige19]

I'm putting this in it's own thread so it doesn't get lost/drown out the trade thread

Thats your career best work

 

[threesixpio]

Thats your career best work

Brown nose

 

[killerspud]

My opinion is from 2008 our drafting has been poor, you can like it or not I couldn't give 2 shits pal.

PS. Theres plenty who agree with me

Your "opinions" are never backed up by any kind of proof (mainly because there is none because if you looked into it you'd see we are actually quite good at drafting with the picks we've had which are difficult because we are successful...because we are good at drafting.)

It's the kind of thing that every other fan of every other club can see and makes us hated and envied and you go and shoot your load about us being no good - seriously go and support another club you turnip