List Mgmt. Heath Shaw

[Beanstalk]

Channel 7 tonight reported that Geelong and Hawthorn are the frontrunners for Heath Shaw. The Taylor Adams thread seems quite popular, so I thought this would be a good idea. Shaw is set to nominate his preferred destination early next week.

First up - do we want him? Does he fit our 'no d-heads' policy? No. Are we a better side with him in it? Yes.

Secondly - What would he cost? Somebody mentioned earlier that if he was to nominate Geelong as his preferred destination, he might cost as little as our second rounder. Straight swap for Travis Varcoe would be in their favour a little you'd think.

Discuss.

 

[Beanstalk]

If Varcoe was to leave, he'd certainly fill that 'linebreaking midfielder/defender' role. Alternatively, he could play permanently in defence, with Guthrie running through the midfield - possibly as a tagger.

Tasty looking backline...
Rivers - Lonergan - Mackie
Shaw - Taylor - Enright

 

[Skerret]

That is some serious rebounding power.

 

[Inferno]

Gysenn looking at that line-up is worrying, with the youngest player there being Taylor at 27. Not a dig at Shaw's ability but if we're having to squeeze out someone like Chappy because of a youth policy then we don't need to start recruiting people who will be 28 at the start of next season.

Our backline is getting on in age without many young replacements coming through with Guthrie being the only one who can go straight into the backline without being somewhat of a liability right now. It could turn into a pretty major weakness for us in 3-4 years time when Enright and Lonergan are retired and Taylor, Mackie and Rivers are just about or already on their last legs.

If we're going all out for a premiership then I'd back it, but the fact we've delisted Chappy indicates the club is thinking more long term.

Edit: I did forget Thurlow who'll be a star, but he's not exactly going to fill the tall defender void.

 

[Bangers and Mash]

I am torn.

If we are going for another flag tilt next year, then yes, I want Shaw here! We are a better team with him in it.
If we are going through a mini rebuild with an aim for a flag in 2015/16, then no, I don't want him here! Get some more games into the kids.

As yet I am still not sure what direction the club is going in!

Am I worried about Shaw being a "dickhead"? No. We have a fantastic culture down at Geelong with a great leadership team! No way will Joel and Scotty let him get away with sh*t! And he's really not that bad is he (no worse than SJ once or Stokesy once was) he's just a little too passionate at times - and sometimes that can be a good thing!

 

[Beanmaster]

I think Shaw would be good for us. I just have one problem.
Even though Shaw is a great rebounder, I don't think he is that great at actually defending, along with some of the others. When you look at the potential backline, you can see-

Rivers: shown signs that he will be OK, but yet to really prove his worth
Lonergan: great defender
Mackie: good at rebounding and setting up play, but not a great defender
Taylor: good at everything
Enright: perfect at everything, but age a worry
Shaw: great rebounder, not so great defender

One of our problems this year was that we were always attacking and that left us vulnerable to small forwards kicking bags (Monfries, McGrath, etc.) I think that having all those rebounders will be good, but I worry about not having enough really good defenders to stop the little guys kicking all the goals.

I am for Shaw though if we can get him at the right price

 

[Beanstalk]

I think Shaw would be good for us. I just have one problem.
Even though Shaw is a great rebounder, I don't think he is that great at actually defending, along with some of the others. When you look at the potential backline, you can see-

Rivers: shown signs that he will be OK, but yet to really prove his worth
Lonergan: great defender
Mackie: good at rebounding and setting up play, but not a great defender
Taylor: good at everything
Enright: perfect at everything, but age a worry
Shaw: great rebounder, not so great defender

One of our problems this year was that we were always attacking and that left us vulnerable to small forwards kicking bags (Monfries, McGrath, etc.) I think that having all those rebounders will be good, but I worry about not having enough really good defenders to stop the little guys kicking all the goals.

I am for Shaw though if we can get him at the right price

What if Guthrie was to stay back, and Shaw was to play in the midfield in a defensive role? We could be just as attacking and rebounding, but do so with the confidence that one of our midfielders has solid defensive skills (albeit not good enough ones to play as a true defender).

 

[Beanmaster]

What if Guthrie was to stay back, and Shaw was to play in the midfield in a defensive role? We could be just as attacking and rebounding, but do so with the confidence that one of our midfielders has solid defensive skills (albeit not good enough ones to play as a true defender).

It could work, but do you think Shaw has the tank to play in the midfield?

 

[BotsMaster]

I am torn.

If we are going for another flag tilt next year, then yes, I want Shaw here! We are a better team with him in it.
If we are going through a mini rebuild with an aim for a flag in 2015/16, then no, I don't want him here! Get some more games into the kids.

As yet I am still not sure what direction the club is going in!

Am I worried about Shaw being a "dickhead"? No. We have a fantastic culture down at Geelong with a great leadership team! No way will Joel and Scotty let him get away with sh*t! And he's really not that bad is he (no worse than SJ once or Stokesy once was) he's just a little too passionate at times - and sometimes that can be a good thing!

I want both.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

'For' mostly, with some reservations.

Some have wondered why Geelong would delist Chapman, then recruit another 'senior player', but I don't see this logic. Very saddened to to see Chappy go, but he will be 32 next season, and Shaw 28. Chappy has played 250 games. Shaw 170. In AFL terms there is a massive difference in those four years and 100 games. Shaw still has 2 seasons of very high quality football left him. He is still at his peak, age and experience wise. So I don't view it as recruiting an 'old player' by any means.

Second, since Wojo retired we have missed a good, aggressive rebounding defender with pace who will take the game on. Varcoe was being groomed to take that role this year, but injuries, form, and a shift in roles intervened. But Shaw would fit this role very well.

Third, a back line with options to use Mackie, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Rivers, Guthrie, and Enright is a very, very good back line. On paper it would be among the best defences in the League.

My reservations are 'behavioural'. There have been various 'incidences'. Some are minor and have been over-blown by the Melbourne media bubble, with its more or less pathetic fascination with footballers. Others have been a real concern - though the most troubling was many years ago (the lie over the drink driving episode).

I like the fact Geelong took on Sydney's 'no dick heads' policy; culture is very important in breeding success. But at 28 I imagine that sort of disruptive shit is behind him.

I'd lean toward taking him, if possible. But, as I said in another thread, it is unlikely we get him and Adams. So it may all depend on what the club's priorities are over the next two seasons.

 

[Beanstalk]

 

[Beanstalk]

It could work, but do you think Shaw has the tank to play in the midfield?

He has the tank to run from the backline to the forward fifty an infinite number of times per game, I don't see why he can't do it from the midfield...

 

[The Casey Cat]

Tough one. I will say yes. He can be awfully bloody damaging. Is a freakin meat head though both off and on field at times. Must drop that shit he will be walking in to a side in transition and containing many young/impressionable players.

 

[Strangled Cat]

Maybe for a second rounder, most definitely not for a first though. I voted 'no' FWIW, but that's not to say that I'm totally 100% against the idea under any and all combinations of circumstances. My biggest issue is an apparent contradiction in our future direction if we aquire Heath Shaw. We're going for youth, yet we draft a 28 year old. If we're looking to make our list "better" next year, getting rid of Chapman wasn't going to achieve this objective. If we're going for broke to try and win a premiership next year, is Heath Shaw the answer to our list needs? Not much adds up to being beneficial to our needs as far as I'm concerned, but nonetheless he's still a good player and probably worth getting him if he's going cheap.

 

[CF]

'For' mostly, with some reservations.

Some have wondered why Geelong would delist Chapman, then recruit another 'senior player', but I don't see this logic. Very saddened to to see Chappy go, but he will be 32 next season, and Shaw 28. Chappy has played 250 games. Shaw 170. In AFL terms there is a massive difference in those four years and 100 games. Shaw still has 2 seasons of very high quality football left him. He is still at his peak, age and experience wise. So I don't view it as recruiting an 'old player' by any means.

Finally someone speaking some sense about Shaw. You'd think we delisted Chappy to recruit Didak the way some are carrying on. Shaw still has a lot of good footy in him and at 28 next year and if he's no good then let's get rid of Bartel, Mackie, and Stokes too while we're at it

Having said that my mixed feelings is more about the baggage he brings rather than his ability to play. But in the end it's not our decision, it's the club and if they decide to go for him then all we can do is welcome him tot he Cattery and wait and see how it works out.

 

[dazbroncos]

I just think his attitude is all wrong - as recent as his brain fade against PA in the Pies game.
Our cup overfloweth this year with brain fades that cost us dearly - irrespective of MRP stupidity - and i just can't see the advantge in adding more.

He is a good defender but that will put Thurlow, Hamling, Brown, Bews, Eardley ( sorry that was habit) back behind another imported starter.

With clearing Chappy, Pods, J Hunt for age.. bringing in a 28 year old just gives me some mixed messages.

I can see the upside of his skills but the downsides just add up too much...

Go Catters

 

[Hot Tin Roof]

One thing is puzzling:

We basically dumped Chappy...
Frees up list space and salary. Leaves us down a small forward/inside mid. Allows us to promote youth.

We go after Shaw...
Despite our 'no dh' and 'promoting youth' policies. Would give us 2-3 good years rotating hb/mid, but will cost us in trade and salary, plus keep a kid or two from developing at senior level.
We go after Adams...
20yo, inside-mid extractor @ 179cm. Would compliment Bundy and Stokes (through to Stokes' retirement).

...But with Smithy due to pull the pin, Sel getting his head knocked off game after game, Kel soon to be 30 and SJ @ 31 mid 2014, the need for a young, ready made, tall and tough goal kicking extractor, would seem a midfield priority. Yet the club actually thought Dustin Martin was a highly priced dickhead.

Geeeez,... Chappy & Varcoe (much as I love 'em), with some shuffling of picks <> Martin, is looking good in hindsight.

Perhaps his old man scared Scotty....

Puzzling

 

[Hot Tin Roof]

Okay, we've seen it!... Can you take it down now.

"Blrp!" "Buuurp!" "Baaaah"... Oh God, I don't remember eating that!

Bucket Brigade!!

 

[bulletproof]

There is almost 4 years difference between Chapman and Shaw so I don't think it is right to link the two. If we are building towards 2015, Shaw is still good for that. As for the no DH policy, has anyone read extracts of our champion fullback's book?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The Pies are interested in Taylor Hunt.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Gysenn looking at that line-up is worrying, with the youngest player there being Taylor at 27. Not a dig at Shaw's ability but if we're having to squeeze out someone like Chappy because of a youth policy then we don't need to start recruiting people who will be 28 at the start of next season.

Our backline is getting on in age without many young replacements coming through with Guthrie being the only one who can go straight into the backline without being somewhat of a liability right now. It could turn into a pretty major weakness for us in 3-4 years time when Enright and Lonergan are retired and Taylor, Mackie and Rivers are just about or already on their last legs.

If we're going all out for a premiership then I'd back it, but the fact we've delisted Chappy indicates the club is thinking more long term.

Edit: I did forget Thurlow who'll be a star, but he's not exactly going to fill the tall defender void.

I tend to see it the opposite to causing problems for our future defense, I think it eases the transition phase a little, as shaw will still be around for 3-4 years hopefully, it spreads the age and experience down there somewhat. And most importantly he is an AA quality rebound defender don't forget. You can not be too against having those for second rounders

 

[bulletproof]

The Pies are interested in Taylor Hunt.

That makes sense they badly lack run and accountability in their midfield.

I would not trade him.

 

[Topper]

Out: Chapman
In: Shaw

OMFG......

 

[manboob]

I think Shaw would be good for us. I just have one problem.
Even though Shaw is a great rebounder, I don't think he is that great at actually defending, along with some of the others.

I think he would end up playing on the wing to be honest rather than off of a half-back. Mackie and Boris can still play that role.

Gysenn looking at that line-up is worrying, with the youngest player there being Taylor at 27. Not a dig at Shaw's ability but if we're having to squeeze out someone like Chappy because of a youth policy then we don't need to start recruiting people who will be 28 at the start of next season.

Chappy would have been 32 at the start of next year by the time shaw turns 32 he'll be done.

I tend to see it the opposite to causing problems for our future defense, I think it eases the transition phase a little, as shaw will still be around for 3-4 years hopefully, it spreads the age and experience down there somewhat. And most importantly he is an AA quality rebound defender don't forget. You can not be too against having those for second rounders

+1

So it's far from "swapping Chappy for Shaw" we feel we have a weakness across the back end that Shaw with his run and carry can help alleviate. And given how shitty and contested football is going to be thanks to Ross the Boss this can only be a good thing. Also I think Scott has decided to use that forward position like Bomber did, as a place to train midfielders.

 

[candiehappy]

he turns 28 next month. I feel that his best footy is behind him. And off field seems to be enormous dickwad. It's a no from me.