Heppell on 360

[Baltimore Jack]

I just watched it and saw Doice label 'ridiculous' the accusation that none of them had filled out their forms correctly and in full.

Curiouser and curiouser...

"Once the lie is started it gets easier and easier to tell even more lies to continue the cover up" - Lance Armstrong

 

[DapperJong]

I still think essendon will like nothing better to get the remaining 12 off their books in as short a time as possible. It gives them a nice free agency fighting fund and their salary cap position is now very elastic thanks to the way its panned out.

Ill be boycotting their games as a matter of principle. they will be shit anyway

cool see ya

 

[Milanista28]

Doisen is grouse!

 

[Underarm]

Players like Hal Hunter deserve sympathy. Players like Heppell deserve everything that's thrown at them.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So, it didn't twig to any of the 34 when told to not involve Reid that they might be skirting the edges? I'll stick with complicit or idiots. Not forgetting that they are still saying they didn't take anything they shouldn't, yet also have no idea what they took. It really beggars belief.

That is the part that makes it seem dodgy (circumventing the Doc) but they may have thought when the club gave the sign off guys like Hird, Dank et al had gone through Reid?

As to whether complicit or idiots, they are just footy players after all not the smartest collective of guys assembled. They still share responsibility but I think they genuinely thought they weren't doing anything wrong - I can't fathom that the whole lot of them got together in a conspiracy to knowingly take PED's, they would have thought or at least been told that if the club had ticked it off it was above board. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility but I think it's a bit different to someone like Lance Armstrong who knowingly cheated and then bullied others into staying quiet or to some of these NFL players who recover from torn muscles using "deer antler spray" and when caught only cop 4 week bans.

 

[SBYM]

these NFL players who recover from torn muscles using "deer antler spray" and when caught only cop 4 week bans.

Ya wot now?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It's his truth and he's entitled to tell it, more entitled and relevant than the received wisdoms on the HTB, seeing as he was there. It's not his problem that his behaviour doesn't conform to your view of his responsibility for what happened at Essendon in 2012.

You've presumably heard of the Rashomon (great film!) effect. This from Wikipedia, "The Rashomon effect is contradictory interpretations of the same event by different people. The phrase derives from the film Rashomon, where the accounts of the witnesses, suspects, and victims of a rape and murder are all different."

Last night, we heard both Hal Hunter's and Dyson Heppell's accounts of the saga and how it has affected them. To me, their perceptions of the players' responsibility and their emotional responses to the consequences of the supplements program both seemed honest and plausible, if different (although both similarly trusted the program). Kind of selective of the HTB to believe one and not the other.

And their experiences are informed by their positions - one is a delisted rookie, the other a future captain of the club.

The point is there are underlying contradictions at the heart of the matter which remain unresolved and until they are no-one can accept what Heppell, Hird and the rest of them say seriously.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I just watched it and saw Doice label 'ridiculous' the accusation that none of them had filled out their forms correctly and in full.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Easy, Doice should just produce the forms and that will settle that. He won't though, and you can guess why not......

It's all about perception - for instance, what exactly were they told they had to list on the forms? If they were told they had to list substances taken over the last few days then they may have filled them out correctly if they hadn't received injections over that time. If it specified different time periods for different substances then the discrepancy may lie in what they believed a substance to be compared to what ASADA/WADA state it is.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Ya wot now?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...ping-Sports-Illustrated-banned-substance.html

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...rt-tricep-tear-20121031_1_triceps-tears-elbow

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/201...wis-baltimore-ravens-reportedly-connected-ped

Torn tricep mid-October - 4-6 months recovery time post surgery.

Back playing in SuperBowl late January.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I haven't had time to watch the clip yet, but I'm really looking forward to it. I read that Heppell said he knows what he took, so the follow up questions asking him to a) list what he took in detail and b) explain why none of it was written on the ASADA forms should be well worth seeing. But surprised these breakthroughs haven't received more press this morning.

 

[SBYM]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...ping-Sports-Illustrated-banned-substance.html

Holograms eh?

Sounds futuristic.

 

[HairyO]

I haven't had time to watch the clip yet, but I'm really looking forward to it. I read that Heppell said he knows what he took, so the follow up questions asking him to a) list what he took in detail and b) explain why none of it was written on the ASADA forms should be well worth seeing. But surprised these breakthroughs haven't received more press this morning.

Id be surprised if more than 2 or 3 journos make this point. The Australian sporting press (specifically the Melbourne based mob) have been completely compliant (complicit?) with the EFC and AFL view.

Im sure this has nothing to do with currying favour.

 

[jenny61_99]

Players like Hal Hunter deserve sympathy. Players like Heppell deserve everything that's thrown at them.

Why?

 

[Aussie in exile]

Just watching this interview now - these guys are on another planet. Still refusing responsibility, still claiming they've been hard done by, claiming that he's comfortable with what he was given but the club refuse to acknowledge what they were given, refusing to understand the strict liability concept for athletes and why it is important etc etc This is why the public sentiment is not with the players or the club. They just refuse to accept any responsibility and still don't get it.

Heppell thinks people who have called him a drug cheat don't know all the facts - maybe those specific ones don't but to think the public are just stupid and they are the innocent victims is wonderland tripe. They have been living in that bubble so long that it is their reality - in the real world people know what went on or have enough of a clue to fill in the gaps and that's why they think Heppell, his teammates and his club are drug cheats.

The more i hear players defend their actions in these cases the more I'm convinced they are as dumb as dog shit.
Geez with have some thicko's playing AF

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Id be surprised if more than 2 or 3 journos make this point. The Australian sporting press (specifically the Melbourne based mob) have been completely compliant (complicit?) with the EFC and AFL view.

Im sure this has nothing to do with currying favour.

They need their AFL credentials otherwise they lose access. Who was the last journo who bucked the establishment and lost favour - can't even remember his name now.

 

[lethalselbow]

Quality thread this. 2 pages of the exact same original post.

Discussions on drug cheats are always interesting. Keep watching.

 

[lethalselbow]

But he said the club did nothing wrong. Why would he be angry at them? They are just as innocent.

This is the problem with the players. What they say defies logic.

Great point. A bit pig headed of him...

 

[Sector 7G]

Why?

Because Hunter has accepted what happened at EFC and is concerned with the potential long term issues.

Heppell has yet to accept the reality of what happened at EFC and is publicly unconcerned about the long term outcomes.

 

[jenny61_99]

Because Hunter has accepted what happened at EFC and is concerned with the potential long term issues.

Heppell has yet to accept the reality of what happened at EFC and is publicly unconcerned about the long term outcomes.

Not sure that Hunter has accepted any level of responsibility yet though? It's all well and good to be finger pointing and blaming the big bad club, but these players also had responsibilities under the AFL anti-doping code that none appear to have acknowledged to this point.

 

[Iskender Time]

Not sure that Hunter has accepted any level of responsibility yet though? It's all well and good to be finger pointing and blaming the big bad club, but these players also had responsibilities under the AFL anti-doping code that none appear to have acknowledged to this point.

In the Four Corners report he was painted along with his own words as being a naive fresh recruit who had no previous experience to judge what was happening as anything abnormal. Unlike many of the experienced players who were in the dopping program.

 

[LeverPuller]

Was he in a Dons polo?

 

[jenny61_99]

In the Four Corners report he was painted along with his own words as being a naive fresh recruit who had no previous experience to judge what was happening as anything abnormal. Unlike many of the experienced players who were in the dopping program.

He had received anti-doping education from both the AFL and ASADA hadn't he? Claim rooky, claim naivety, at the end of the day, he had a responsibility (to himself!) and he failed in that. That has to be acknowledged at some point and so far, not one of them has acknowledged it.

 

[Iskender Time]

He had received anti-doping education from both the AFL and ASADA hadn't he? Claim rooky, claim naivety, at the end of the day, he had a responsibility (to himself!) and he failed in that. That has to be acknowledged at some point and so far, not one of them has acknowledged it.

True, and he ignored his mum's warnings that it was a cowboy program using snake oil. She came across as intelligent, educated and ethical.

 

[Sector 7G]

Not sure that Hunter has accepted any level of responsibility yet though? It's all well and good to be finger pointing and blaming the big bad club, but these players also had responsibilities under the AFL anti-doping code that none appear to have acknowledged to this point.

He has responsibilities under the WADA code which wasn't addressed in the episode of 4Cs because it is not really relevant since he isn't banned, but no responsibility from an OH&S perspective. It is the Clubs responsibility to make sure he doesn't do something stupidly harmful to himself, like go to an offsite facility and let lunatics inject him with unknown substances on EFC's coin.

 

[jenny61_99]

He has responsibilities under the WADA code which wasn't addressed in the episode of 4Cs because it is not really relevant since he isn't banned, but no responsibility from an OH&S perspective. It is the Clubs responsibility to make sure he doesn't do something stupidly harmful to himself, like go to an offsite facility and let lunatics inject him with unknown substances on EFC's coin.

Everybody has responsibility for their own safety and wellbeing though where things are within their control. Stupidity and ignorance doesn't excuse you from taking the basic necessary steps to protect yourself.