Opinion Hinesight, Knightsight and Hindsight Nov 2012

[ZEV]

But Gawn is older

who cares you don't get premiership points for your birth certificate

 

[TheSierBear]

who cares you don't get premiership points for your birth certificate

So who cares about how many games Gawns played, you don't win flags by that either.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Our current predicament is making it difficult for many of my fellow posters to be optimistic about anything Collingwood related; fair enough too.

I'd like think that Schaz will return of healthy mind and body at some stage. Many excellent footballers have been plagued by devastating knee injuries and enjoyed solid careers e.g. Licuria, Menzel etc

I for one will be delighted when the bergermeister returns fully fit and ready to become our latest better player

 

[Apex36]

I don’t know what "proof" you want me to provide?


Your guarantees are pretty worthless though like a Grundy tap out.


You appear to be just a fanboy and not much else. Tell me, if everyone is impressed with Hine, why bring Gubby Allan in? And don't tell me its for the netball because you and I both know that is rubbish.


Another thing I do know is that our development of young players has pretty much flat lined as well ever since Alan Richardson was turfed out by Madhouse.


We were ahead of the pack in this regard but just as in recruiting we are now following the pack.


As for Hine lets look at it shall we?


2011 - Jacskon Paine, Corey Gault and Jarrod Witts - One already dumped, one about to be and one who wont make it.


2012 - Grundy, Kennedy Broomhead Ramsay. _ The pity about this is Ramsay has shown the most talent.. Kennedy was crap and is gone. Don't give me his stats for two games. He is making all the same errors he ever made and will be another Simon Eishold.


2013 Scharenberg Freeman Langdon Marsh Oxley Scahrenberg has hardly played football for three years and now has two ACLs. You cant compare him to Menzel who was already killing them before his first injury. He had shown something. Freeman a big mistake from the get go and gawn. Langdon has gone backwards. Marsh, has shown glimpses but not much. Oxley the jury is out.


Hine had his day in the sun like Noel Judkins, but as happens with everyone, he is past his use by date. I would say the same for Gubby Allan but it does show intent on the part of the club.

And I just noted you have posted on average every two months as many posts as I have posted in 14 years. There is a life outside you know.

Rofl. Your opinion on Grundy and co is laughable. There are enough others who have already shot you down that I don't need to go through your points.

As for my posting numbers, I'm not sure how that's relevant other than to personally attack me, something you accused me of earlier for simply saying you were being disingenuous. Maybe you should take a look in the mirror champ. Personal circumstances are different from person to person, and for some people here being able to talk footy with others on a consistent basis is an important outlet. In short, if you want to take shots at others about their posting habits, you can go suck a fat one.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Grundy has played more AFL games than Gawn.

And this is a bad thing?? It just shows how far ahead Grundy is for his age as a ruckman. He has a lot of development yet to do in ruck terms. If you look at players of similar vintage to Grundy you will understand better. Grundy's game around the ground is already better than most ruckmen, his ruckwork has a long way to go.

Daniel Gorringe drafted 2010 (two years before Grundy) at pick 11, currently at the Blues in their twos as a "developing" ruckman that needs time. Everyone accepts that, nice pick up Blues.

Billy Longer drafted 2011 (one year before Grundy) at pick 8, currently at the Saints in their twos as a "developing" ruckman that needs time. Everyone accepts that, nice pick up Saints.

Brodie Grundy drafted 2012 at pick 18 carries the ruck for his club in his 4th year, gets beaten by an older more mature ruckman and its clear Hine has made a huge mistake?

 

[Apex36]

And this is a bad thing?? It just shows how far ahead Grundy is for his age as a ruckman. He has a lot of development yet to do in ruck terms. If you look at players of similar vintage to Grundy you will understand better. Grundy's game around the ground is already better than most ruckmen, his ruckwork has a long way to go.

Daniel Gorringe drafted 2010 (two years before Grundy) at pick 11, currently at the Blues in their twos as a "developing" ruckman that needs time. Everyone accepts that, nice pick up Blues.

Billy Longer drafted 2011 (one year before Grundy) at pick 8, currently at the Saints in their twos as a "developing" ruckman that needs time. Everyone accepts that, nice pick up Saints.

Brodie Grundy drafted 2012 at pick 18 carries the ruck for his club in his 4th year, gets beaten by an older more mature ruckman and its clear Hine has made a huge mistake?

Yeah mang, that guy sucks. Why isn't he elite yet, he's 22 ffs...

 

[Vicky Park]

Can we ditch the heated stuff please guys? Different views, obviously, but please tone the aggression.

 

[sr36]

jack viney and lachie hunter will have him covered I reckon.

I don't reckon we can blame Hine for not recruiting their fathers in the 90s.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

who cares you don't get premiership points for your birth certificate

You do if youre a ruckman

 

[Maggie Greg]

Rofl. Your opinion on Grundy and co is laughable. There are enough others who have already shot you down that I don't need to go through your points.

As for my posting numbers, I'm not sure how that's relevant other than to personally attack me, something you accused me of earlier for simply saying you were being disingenuous. Maybe you should take a look in the mirror champ. Personal circumstances are different from person to person, and for some people here being able to talk footy with others on a consistent basis is an important outlet. In short, if you want to take shots at others about their posting habits, you can go suck a fat one.

Diddums. I put forward my argument that Hine is on the way out due to his poor drafting. You disagree. I note you didn't address the Gubby Allan appointment and you failure to do so means we have to draw the adverse inference in relation to your argument.

Ultimately neither your verbosity nor my claims will decide who is right. Time will tell. But we are pretty much stuffed in the sort term due to Hine in my view.

"Go suck a fat one" really is pretty pathetic. Y

And who uses the term "rofl" anymore?

 

[Vicky Park]

Again, please stop with the aggressive posts.

 

[ZEV]

So who cares about how many games Gawns played, you don't win flags by that either.

Gawn played a large part in getting them 4 points on monday

 

[Royal Flash]

Name me a ruck 23 years or younger developing better than Grundy?

Look at Nic Nats numbers at the same stage of his career. Grundy is averaging more disposals, marks and as many hitouts as Naitanui was. In fact Grundy is averaging more possessions (and has already recorded more 20+ disposal games in 52 games than Naitanui has in 143) more marks and only 3 less hitouts per game.

And Goldstein was even further back at the same stage of his career. Rucking is an art which players get better with after a number of years and plenty of games unlike midfielders who can come into the AFL almost ready made.

I get the angst people have but Grundy is tracking alright. If we get a proper, knowledgeable full time ruck coach he will be even better,

 

[ZEV]

Look at Nic Nats numbers at the same stage of his career. Grundy is averaging more disposals, marks and as many hitouts as Naitanui was. In fact Grundy is averaging more possessions (and has already recorded more 20+ disposal games in 52 games than Naitanui has in 143) more marks and only 3 less hitouts per game.

In his 4th year (like Grundy is now) Nic Nat was still the 2nd ruckman behind Cox. In his 4th year alone Nic Nat received more Brownlow votes than Jolly is his entire Collingwood career.

And Goldstein was even further back at the same stage of his career. Rucking is an art which players get better with after a number of years and plenty of games unlike midfielders who can come into the AFL almost ready made.

In Goldsteins 4th year he averaged 35 hit outs a game. Grundy has exceeded this once in career so far. In his 4th year Grundy is averaging 21 hit outs.

I get the angst people have but Grundy is tracking alright. If we get a proper, knowledgeable full time ruck coach he will be even better,

Realistically we've been beaten in the ruck all year except for Carlton and Port Adelaide (maybe Brisbane).

 

[Knightmare]

Doing a remarkable job...

Grundy - First round pick from SA
Witts - NSW academy taken from rugby as a child and given the best facilities and coaching in the country
Cox - Genetic freak recruited from obscure US college

all got pantsed by gawn who went to the same bloody high school as hines kids

We could have had Gawn .... had we not selected Luke Ball at pick 30 in 2009.

Given a premiership was won with Ball, and the value he added both on quality of performance and leadership. You'd take him again if we could.

Gawn has come into his own these past two seasons and along with Naitanui and Goldstein is one of those three absolute premier ruckmen in the game.

Given what became obvious about Gawn late last season and through the preseason, early season games. I'm not the least bit surprised he was the dominant ruckman on the ground.

What could be said against Grundy and Witts through the ruck while at the contest surprisingly they pretty well broke even, Gawn surprisingly took advantage around the ground of a relative lack of accountability and respect paid by both Witts and Grundy - leading to a career best 27 disposals and 3 goals for Gawn.

Further to this it should be noted that Grundy/Witts/Cox have never had an actual ruck coach. So while they have upside seemingly equal, or maybe in Grundy's case better than Gawn. We're not exactly setting them up with the resources to allow them to succeed to a best in the AFL by position standard.

So with the Side doing so badly. How will that Effect the Start of the Womens AFL Team and the Netball Side?

By Collingwood (AFL) losing. The Collingwood brand weakens. Less interest from fans - as you can see with declining membership and attendence numbers at AFL games. The same trend will relate to interest in a Collingwood womens AFL and Collingwood netball team.

Doesn't mean either team can't succeed. That's such an unknown. But I'd certainly anticipate much better support from Collingwood fans, for those teams if the Collingwood AFL team is going well, as fans will be interested and engaged in the brand broadly.

 

[CFC2010]

Diddums. I put forward my argument that Hine is on the way out due to his poor drafting. You disagree. I note you didn't address the Gubby Allan appointment and you failure to do so means we have to draw the adverse inference in relation to your argument.

Ultimately neither your verbosity nor my claims will decide who is right. Time will tell. But we are pretty much stuffed in the sort term due to Hine in my view.

"Go suck a fat one" really is pretty pathetic. Y

And who uses the term "rofl" anymore?

Greg you are wrong about Gubby Allan.......he IS at the Pies to oversee the Woman's Teams & Acadamies.

As Ripley said.........believe it or not!

 

[BPikkers]

Gawn played a large part in getting them 4 points on monday

Yeah a long long way. There is no doubt Gawn is one of the best 2 ruckman in the league.
One thing I do find is that a true ruckman tends to play better if he is not sharing ruck duties. Gawn wasn't dominant when Grundy rucked against him earlier in the season. Witts played a great game a couple of years ago when he tucked solo against Sandi.

Goldi became dominant when north shipped out McIntosh.

Leunberger better as sole ruckman etc etc.

So, I'd say there is only room for 1 ruckman in the team. Grundy just gives us so much more around the ground than Witts.

 

[Maggie Greg]

Greg you are wrong about Gubby Allan.......he IS at the Pies to oversee the Woman's Teams & Acadamies.

As Ripley said.........believe it or not!

Ostensibly. That is just to avoid the football tax.

 

[CFC2010]

Ostensibly. That is just to avoid the football tax.

You're wrong mate.

Nothing to do with the tax.

 

[BPikkers]

I think the word 'diddums' should be banned.

 

[TheSierBear]

I think the word 'diddums' should be banned.

I don't. And I'd like the mods to be more relaxed. I reckon a lot of people enjoyed reading the melts of the last two pages, I know I certainly did.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I don't. And I'd like the mods to be more relaxed. I reckon a lot of people enjoyed reading the melts of the last two pages, I know I certainly did.

 

[TradeDraft]

Knightmare intresting to see you had us taking Langdon in the Rookie Draft in yours.

Then we picked him up in the Draft a Year Later

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare intresting to see you had us taking Langdon in the Rookie Draft in yours.

Then we picked him up in the Draft a Year Later

You'd have to go through my phantom draft from 2012 to see where I had Langdon landing.

I just liked him on the back of his production as a top-ager. And so it seemed did Collingwood.

 

[ppoiter]

When were you planning on editing the hindsight part of your OP Knightmare? Would be an interesting read. Personally I can't see many players taken after ours who turned out much better