NO TROLLS Homophobia in the AFL - 4 Corners

[dangerwood]

I'm pretty sure the AFL cracks down on racial abuse of its players over social media whenever it all too frequently arises. 100% they would do the same thing to any abuse received by a gay player.

Yeah that's not the point though, that's denouncing the attack/abuse, responding to it I suppose, do they need to do more to protect players from experiencing it in the first place?

Is a punitive measure for a caught individual enough? I think most on here and the AFL themselves are saying no it's not, we actually need to work towards educating/stopping/preventing the abuse occuring in the first place so players can feel safe at work. This means having a role inadvocacy and doing more than just running an AFL comp.

I would suggest again using the example of an EM nurse, is the employer reporting an individual who abused a staff member to the police enough? Or if it's happening frequently enough do they need to actually look at ways to stop the behaviour in the first place. Not saying it's simple fix but again that is what most workplaces are actually trying to work through. I think it only becomes more complex for the AFL, when do players work environments cease to exist? They play a public role in promoting the game so any abuse they receive at any time as a public figure probably becomes part of the AFLs problem.

I get that you're against it but it's the world we live in now. It's complicated, grey and the lines get confusing.

 

[M Malice]

I sincerely wish that I lived in that world. I really, really do.

Don't forget, it wasn't that long ago that we held an official, anonymous survey on whether LGBT couples should be granted the same rights as straight couples. More than 4.8m Australians returned a submission that they should not.

I would agree that a majority of the general population doesn't give a single shiny shite, and probably a larger percentage of young people than old, but 4.8m is a lot. They know they can't shout you down on the street any more, and they have to be careful how loud they shout in the terraces, or how they phrase things, but people who do give a damn about the gender of your partner are everywhere, still. And when you let them be relatively anonymous - like on the internet - they go to town.

Yes it is very sad, from my experience it is the devoutly religious that are intolerant in a lot of cases, personally know of one couple my age (early 60s) who shunned their daughter and her partner for years when they came out as a couple.

Social media is full of "brave" keyboard bigots and a holes.

 

[phantom13]

What am I wrong about? I agree that they have legal WHS obligations. I've stated they need to be welcoming to all. I simply disagreed with you that they should be doing more.

Except that you said they werent obligated to do anything more.

They are from both a legal POV and by their own admission.

I dont know how much clearer that can be, youre wrong in your assertion that theyre not obligated to do anything more, they absolutely are under WHS rules so you can revise your original comment or just admit youre wrong.

 

[Dazzler9]

Except that you said they werent obligated to do anything more.

They are from both a legal POV and by their own admission.

I dont know how much clearer that can be, youre wrong in your assertion that theyre not obligated to do anything more, they absolutely are under WHS rules so you can revise your original comment or just admit youre wrong.

Which WHS rules?

 

[phantom13]

I seem to have triggered a few people here. Let me point out my actual words.

"the AFL are not OBLIGED to do anything " so of course, they can advocate if they wish, or do more if they wish. eg. support the Yes campaign. Which I too supported.

Also:

"That includes being welcoming to all, of course" To me, this would cover the Workplace Health and Safety regs referenced above.

I also never said they should focus on footy. Although, I mean, they probably should, gven that is their raison d'etre.

Which WHS rules?

The ones you noted above.

They are obliged to comply with these which they currently are not, by their own admission.

Its not that complicated dude, you incorrectly said something, just cop it on the chin and move on.

 

[phantom13]

Dazzler9 did you watch the Four Corners piece? Genuine question.

 

[Dazzler9]

The ones you noted above.

They are obliged to comply with these which they currently are not, by their own admission.

Its not that complicated dude, you incorrectly said something, just cop it on the chin and move on.

They're obliged to comply with the law of the land. I've made it perfectly clear that I agree with that.

They are not obliged to do anything more than they currently do, which is a whole lot more than 99% of organisations in this country.

No need to be so aggressive in your tone Phantom. Please keep it civil, I am allowed to have a different view of the matter to you.

 

[Dazzler9]

Dazzler9 did you watch the Four Corners piece? Genuine question.

I read the transcripts.

 

[phantom13]

They're obliged to comply with the law of the land. I've made it perfectly clear that I agree with that.

They are not obliged to do anything more than they currently do, which is a whole lot more than 99% of organisations in this country.

No need to be so aggressive in your tone Phantom. Please keep it civil, I am allowed to have a different view of the matter to you.

Im not being aggressive im being flippant.

The bolded is completely wrong.

I read the transcripts.

If you did (or just watched it) then youd know that the AFLs head of HR noted that their own policy on this developed in 2000 has not been fully implemented by all clubs (which they know because of the audit they themselves did and admitted too). So they are obligated to implement this and they have not.

So again, the AFL themselves have admitted both that they are obligated to do more under their own policy which also aligns with the WHS requirements and that they should be doing more by their own position on the subject.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The biggest homophobes in the conversation are the media who want to pile on and demand certain people share their private sexual lives with them so they can use it for their own financial gain, at the expense of the mental health of the people involved

 

[Dazzler9]

Im not being aggressive im being flippant.

The bolded is completely wrong.

No it isn't. As long as they follow the laws of the land, there is no literally no further obligation.

They can devise their own policies to their heart's content, but they're not obliged to do so or even properly implement them.

Whether they should or not is a different discussion.

 

[phantom13]

No it isn't. As long as they follow the laws of the land, there is no literally no further obligation.

They can devise their own policies to their heart's content, but they're not obliged to do so or even properly implement them.

Whether they should or not is a different discussion.

Theyre not obligated to implement their own policy, which was developed under the WHS guidelines?

Thats your position? In spite of them admitting they need to do that and that they should do more?

Youre not even arguing with me anymore, youre arguing with the AFL themselves, or at least their HR representative.

 

[Dazzler9]

Theyre not obligated to implement their own policy, which was developed under the WHS guidelines?

Thats your position? In spite of them admitting they need to do that and that they should do more?

Youre not even arguing with me anymore, youre arguing with the AFL themselves, or at least their HR representative.

 

[Dazzler9]

Let it be noted Phantom, that I don't see myself as some sort of anti-gay homophobe that yells Virtue Signalling!! every time the AFL tries to act inclusively. I supported the AFL's support of the Yes vote, I'm all for equality, etc etc. I just don't understand what anybody expects the AFL to be doing. I'll leave it at that.

 

[phantom13]

Let it be noted Phantom, that I don't see myself as some sort of anti-gay homophobe that yells Virtue Signalling!! every time the AFL tries to act inclusively. I supported the AFL's support of the Yes vote, I'm all for equality, etc etc. I just don't understand what anybody expects the AFL to be doing. I'll leave it at that.

Thats fair, im more making the point that the AFL itself has noted its obligated to do more (which it is). Your specific opinion that they are not obligated to do more is fine, you are entitled to that opinion (i dont agree with it but thats not my point).

 

[Shai]

The AFL boss said the first out gay player would carry a burden. This former captain says it'd be a superpower

No professional male AFL player, past or present, has ever publicly come out as gay or bisexual. Insiders say a culture of homophobia lingers.

www.abc.net.au

It is a curiosity why there has never been an openly gay player in the AFL.

Clubs need to look at their environment and culture to ensure a fully safe workplace for true acceptance of these players.

Not going to trawl thru 33 pages but the girls don't seem to have any issue with standing up and declaring their preferences and exactly who they are.

I actually haven't heard any negative feedback from that so why it is then so hard for the guys to do the same, I don't understand.

Your sexual preferences don't change the person you are but of course it is the individuals right to speak or be private about it.

 

[JackOutback]

I sincerely wish that I lived in that world. I really, really do.

Don't forget, it wasn't that long ago that we held an official, anonymous survey on whether LGBT couples should be granted the same rights as straight couples. More than 4.8m Australians returned a submission that they should not.

I would agree that a majority of the general population doesn't give a single shiny shite, and probably a larger percentage of young people than old, but 4.8m is a lot. They know they can't shout you down on the street any more, and they have to be careful how loud they shout in the terraces, or how they phrase things, but people who do give a damn about the gender of your partner are everywhere, still. And when you let them be relatively anonymous - like on the internet - they go to town.

When people say they are not interested in gay people's private lives, it generally means they don't want to hear about it and would rather they kept it to themselves. People are regularly 'interested' in other heterosexual people's private lives simply by asking if they are seeing someone, wanting to meet their new boyfriend/girlfriend etc. It's not invasive, it's just how things work when your relationship is accepted by the wider community.That's the kind of 'interest' I suspect gay people are seeking.

 

[The Gotham Penguin]

My son is gay - his words not mine upon watching a couple of minutes of AFLW - "is it a requirement to watch this crap to be actively gay, waving a rainbow flag and hugging your same sex partner?"
"I've seen less queers in Sircuit than this"

There is a real risk that AFLW football itself is becoming a side-show to the orientation of it's players and fans.
I look at the AFL website and there's more stuff about the players relationships and orientation than the actual football sometimes.

99.8% of Australians - certainly in the cities - don't care.

An example - I think it was Darcy Vescio - who I absolutely rate as a footy player - was talking about non-binary issues.

I get why Darcy would want to tell family , friends and team-mates. They interact regularly.
Why tell everyone else?

I'm never going to meet Darcy, so why do I need to know?

Why the need to tell absolutely everyone in Australia about your sexuality?

I don't care. You probably don't either.

I thought the whole point of ending discrimination was to be treated the same as everyone else.

Yet constantly, some AFLW players have to tell us how different they are.

It's like the game is secondary at times.

If a male player came out - nobody at home would give a hoot - but you can bet your house that someone/ some group would take it over and make it much more than it actually is - and it will be someone in the gay community, with an agenda.

That's why none of the many gay AFL players won't 'come out' - because they would be hijacked into a 'cause' or 'agenda' they have no interest in.

And that's really, really sad.

 

[AJB84]

My son is gay - his words not mine upon watching a couple of minutes of AFLW - "is it a requirement to watch this crap to be actively gay, waving a rainbow flag and hugging your same sex partner?"
"I've seen less queers in Sircuit than this"

There is a real risk that AFLW football itself is becoming a side-show to the orientation of it's players and fans.
I look at the AFL website and there's more stuff about the players relationships and orientation than the actual football sometimes.

99.8% of Australians - certainly in the cities - don't care.

An example - I think it was Darcy Vescio - who I absolutely rate as a footy player - was talking about non-binary issues.

I get why Darcy would want to tell family , friends and team-mates. They interact regularly.
Why tell everyone else?

I'm never going to meet Darcy, so why do I need to know?

Why the need to tell absolutely everyone in Australia about your sexuality?

I don't care. You probably don't either.

I thought the whole point of ending discrimination was to be treated the same as everyone else.

Yet constantly, some AFLW players have to tell us how different they are.

It's like the game is secondary at times.

If a male player came out - nobody at home would give a hoot - but you can bet your house that someone/ some group would take it over and make it much more than it actually is - and it will be someone in the gay community, with an agenda.

That's why none of the many gay AFL players won't 'come out' - because they would be hijacked into a 'cause' or 'agenda' they have no interest in.

And that's really, really sad.

So Darcy should be misgendered in every newspaper because they should not tell people who they are?

 

[The Gotham Penguin]

So Darcy should be misgendered in every newspaper because they should not tell people who they are?

Of course not.

Any newspaper doing an article about Darcy, would no doubt be told by Darcy the correct way to refer to Darcy in the article.

But you knew that, just as you knew that I already said that people who know or deal with Darcy should and do doubt do,address Darcy appropriately.

I'm never going to meet Darcy so why do I need to know about him / her being non-binary?

There's probably someone else non-binary living a few streets away, but they don't feel the need to put all info that in a newspaper.

That's my point - and well you knew it.

 

[phantom13]

Of course not.

Any newspaper doing an article about Darcy, would no doubt be told by Darcy the correct way to refer to Darcy in the article.

But you knew that, just as you knew that I already said that people who know or deal with Darcy should and do doubt do,address Darcy appropriately.

I'm never going to meet Darcy so why do I need to know about him / her being non-binary?

There's probably someone else non-binary living a few streets away, but they don't feel the need to put all info that in a newspaper.

That's my point - and well you knew it.

They also have no need to hide it.

I get your point, nobody cares about it, it’s been done over and over and over in this thread. It continues to completely miss the point.

 

[Gough]

They also have no need to hide it.

I get your point, nobody cares about it, it’s been done over and over and over in this thread. It continues to completely miss the point.

A reckon a fifteen year old gay player might care a whole bundle because for the first time in his life he'll see somoeone like him playing elite footy it all will seem that bit more possible.

 

[phantom13]

A reckon a fifteen year old gay player might care a whole bundle because for the first time in his life he'll see somoeone like him playing elite footy it all will seem that bit more possible.

A point I have made numerous times in this thread.

Time truly is a flat circle

 

[raskolnikov]

My son is gay - his words not mine upon watching a couple of minutes of AFLW - "is it a requirement to watch this crap to be actively gay, waving a rainbow flag and hugging your same sex partner?"
"I've seen less queers in Sircuit than this"

There is a real risk that AFLW football itself is becoming a side-show to the orientation of it's players and fans.
I look at the AFL website and there's more stuff about the players relationships and orientation than the actual football sometimes.

99.8% of Australians - certainly in the cities - don't care.

An example - I think it was Darcy Vescio - who I absolutely rate as a footy player - was talking about non-binary issues.

I get why Darcy would want to tell family , friends and team-mates. They interact regularly.
Why tell everyone else?

I'm never going to meet Darcy, so why do I need to know?

Why the need to tell absolutely everyone in Australia about your sexuality?

I don't care. You probably don't either.

I thought the whole point of ending discrimination was to be treated the same as everyone else.

Yet constantly, some AFLW players have to tell us how different they are.

It's like the game is secondary at times.

If a male player came out - nobody at home would give a hoot - but you can bet your house that someone/ some group would take it over and make it much more than it actually is - and it will be someone in the gay community, with an agenda.

That's why none of the many gay AFL players won't 'come out' - because they would be hijacked into a 'cause' or 'agenda' they have no interest in.

And that's really, really sad.

I agree. Players should never mention their wives or girlfriends, take a wife or partner to the Brownlow or have their family come on the ground for a milestone match. I don't need to know about their sexuality.

 

[JackOutback]

A reckon a fifteen year old gay player might care a whole bundle because for the first time in his life he'll see somoeone like him playing elite footy it all will seem that bit more possible.

It might seem trite, but 'you can't be what you can't see' has a whole lot of truth to it.