Honest Question

[willo_k]

Was at the game today sitting just behind the Geelong cheer squad. Had a massive contingent of cats behind us in the standing area, a couple of times they cheered "Same old Hawthorn, Always Cheating". Didnt really make any sense, is there some kind of historical context that I'm missing?

PS Congrats on the result today, hopefully play you guys again sooner rather than later as its always a belter.

 

[Cohzee]

No idea from my part.

 

[winty]

Could be a reference to all the rushed behinds in the grand final.

Although the Hawks supporters behind me in the Jimmy Bartel pocket were chanting "Same old Geelong, always missing" at one stage, so it could've been a play on that. But how they heard those Hawks fans from behind the cheer squad is beyond me.

 

[SmothOperRaider]

I didn't see the dirty sniper throwing his elbows around today, so it must have been in reference to the rushed behinds.

 

[And_ROOS]

I didn't see the dirty sniper throwing his elbows around today, so it must have been in reference to the rushed behinds.

I saw Lewis and Taylor display more of this "unsociable football" that keeps being spoken of, when i rewatch the game on fox ill note down some of their dirty acts.

Plus noone has forgotten Taylors knee on Selwood in round 1. Or alot of the sh*t your club pulled in matches.

Cheat isnt a good word, its more dirty tactics.

 

[BlueOyster]

its as perplexing to me as to why hawthorn fans booed nevlle bruns for all those years

 

[Turbocat]

Are you a cheat if you push the rules to the edge? Some people think so.
The continual hedging on the mark , the scragging , the sniping , etc. is not the way some people think you should play.
For mine , I've always believed its up to the umpires to say where that edge is and its up to the players to push it right to the edge. As much as it can be frustrating when its happening to you , its exactly how I'd play/coach in a professional comp. I hate them and totally respect them.

 

[AidanNelson2009]

Hawthorn are cheats as simple as that.

 

[wolvesjr34]

Hawthorn are cheats as simple as that.

But it's okay to act like you just got shot in the face from a fair bump to the shoulder (that's happened twice now in the past three games from one player in Geelong colours I don't need to name)?

BOTH teams push different aspects of the game to the limit.

 

[rooie]

But it's okay to act like you just got shot in the face from a fair bump to the shoulder (that's happened twice now in the past three games from one player in Geelong colours I don't need to name)?

BOTH teams push different aspects of the game to the limit.

he learnt that from mitchell....teaches a master class in acting he does.

 

[wolvesjr34]

he learnt that from mitchell....teaches a master class in acting he does.

If You'd said he learned it from Buddy, I'd believe you

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Was at the game today sitting just behind the Geelong cheer squad. Had a massive contingent of cats behind us in the standing area, a couple of times they cheered "Same old Hawthorn, Always Cheating". Didnt really make any sense, is there some kind of historical context that I'm missing?

PS Congrats on the result today, hopefully play you guys again sooner rather than later as its always a belter.

Firstly thanks for the congrads. After the game yelling out "suck shit hawthorn" felt good at the time but it was prolly a little stupid thinking about it now.

Ok secondly i have no idea about the cheating chant, prolly was referance to last years grand final. Why do the hawks fans always yell out "handbaggers"? You must understand that we as geelong supporters have a massive hatred for the hawthorn football club. Some arrogent fans of the hfc don't help. Over the past 2 decades we have been very burnt by your team and you can't forget shit like that.

 

[wolvesjr34]

Firstly thanks for the congrads. After the game yelling out "suck shit hawthorn" felt good at the time but it was prolly a little stupid thinking about it now.

Ok secondly i have no idea about the cheating chant, prolly was referance to last years grand final. Why do the hawks fans always yell out "handbaggers"? You must understand that we as geelong supporters have a massive hatred for the hawthorn football club. Some arrogent fans of the hfc don't help. Over the past 2 decades we have been very burnt by your team and you can't forget shit like that.

The only thing that happened in last years grand final was Geelong were not given as much of an armchair ride with the umpires (although there is still that down the field free kick goal that was not in the rules that the umpires made up).

The Handbagger claim comes from the fact Geelong has a history of being bridesmaids, and not taking home the prize - at least that's my interpretation. The best way to stop being called that (I don't personally use that term) is to win more than one flag in out of 5 or 6 Grand Final appearances.

I think the reason Geelong hates Hawthorn, is because Hawthorn would win those premierships, and we took your two best chances at winning more flags (89 and 08) from you.

 

[catempire]

The only thing that happened in last years grand final was Geelong were not given as much of an armchair ride with the umpires (although there is still that down the field free kick goal that was not in the rules that the umpires made up).

Are you suggesting Geelong had an armchair ride yesterday?

We were flogged by the maggots yesterday. Read the commentary of it by neutrals.

The Handbagger claim comes from the fact Geelong has a history of being bridesmaids, and not taking home the prize - at least that's my interpretation. The best way to stop being called that (I don't personally use that term) is to win more than one flag in out of 5 or 6 Grand Final appearances.

Wrong. It pre-dates the 1989-1995 period, and by a fair way.

I think the reason Geelong hates Hawthorn, is because Hawthorn would win those premierships, and we took your two best chances at winning more flags (89 and 08) from you.

1989 is a big part of it. But it's more the Hawthorn supporters that rile most Geelong people I know. Then there's the on-field stuff which I'll only describe here as "pushing the limits".

 

[deadfish]

I think you are looking in to it too much.. they say it about all teams really.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think the reason Geelong hates Hawthorn, is because Hawthorn would win those premierships, and we took your two best chances at winning more flags (89 and 08) from you.

Speaking personally, I definitely don't hate Hawthorn because of 1989 and I don't even hate them because of 2008. I think their team seems like a bunch of reasonable people, they won the grand final last year fair and square and within the rules, as they were at the time.

My problem is strictly with the supporters, spending more time gloating after the game about Geelong choking, rather than just being elated with the win (I'm generalising here). Just have a look at the Hawthorn supporters on here and how many have avatars that relate to Geelong choking in the grand final for evidence.

For blokes that have played in (and lost) a footy grand final, there's an obvious comparison. You'd remember being in the rooms, drowning your sorrows and trying to get over a devastating loss, but of course you could set your watch to some hero from the winning club calling your club rooms, just to rub it in some more (usually someone who didn't even play in the game). That was the reaction of plenty of Hawthorn fans after the 2008 grand final. And I hate them for it.

 

[jim boy]

The Handbagger claim comes from the fact Geelong has a history of being bridesmaids, and not taking home the prize - at least that's my interpretation.

Nice guess but wrong - Lou Richards coined the term in the early seventies at a time when the club avoided the hard stuff and tried to be too fancy and were basically crap.

 

[wolvesjr34]

Nice guess but wrong - Lou Richards coined the term in the early seventies at a time when the club avoided the hard stuff and tried to be too fancy and were basically crap.

Well exactly, as I said just my interpretation. I don't really know the history of the term, because I don't use it in reference to Geelong, or any other team for that matter.

As for people Hating Hawthorn fans after they beat Geelong in 2008, a lot of that Hawthorn fan gloating stemmed from the reaction of Geelong supporters after 2007.

What goes around, comes around.

Frankly all the arrogance shits me to tears.

 

[catempire]

As for people Hating Hawthorn fans after they beat Geelong in 2008, a lot of that Hawthorn fan gloating stemmed from the reaction of Geelong supporters after 2007.

And that probably makes it worse from our perspective. The reaction, in my biased opinion was very mild, for a team that had just done so well and broken a 44 year drought. We had every reason to celebrate and enjoy.

 

[wolvesjr34]

And that probably makes it worse from our perspective. The reaction, in my biased opinion was very mild, for a team that had just done so well and broken a 44 year drought. We had every reason to celebrate and enjoy.

Ahhh see it was not you enjoying a break of many years without a flag that would have caused the pay back gloating.

It was the attitude that your team was the greatest ever and unbeatable going into 2008 finals - that caused the gloating.

If the arrogant Geelong supporters hadn't stirred shit, the arrogant Hawthorn ones, wouldn't have been AS bad.

If you tell somebody their team who just won the premiership, is still the second best team on the day, what would you expect the reaction to be?

Too many Geelong supporters failed to acknowledge that Hawthorn was the better team on the day in 2008, all the excuses were coming out, about bad kicking etcetera.

Then Geelogn supporters tell us NOT to make excuses when we lose, but EVERYBODY does. So *shrug*

For the record, I do not think the umpiring changed the result of the game, it was still there to be won. It's just, as Geelong supporters with the umpire darlings Ablett (in his case, it's not what he gets given, but what IS NOT paid against him) and Selwood, you don't really understand what its like to have the best forward in the competition mauled week in and out, and MAYBE get a soft free kick once every three weeks. That's the only real reason people in Hawthorn land complain, because Franklin would bag 5 a week regardless of form if he got the same treatment as Selwood by the umpires.

You could tell the Geelogn players were surprised when they actually gave away a couple soft free kicks, cause that hasn't happened in like 2 years? Ling was rather uncomposed when he got screwed by the umpire wasn't he? He should try getting that EVERY week.

Sorry to go off topic slightly, was just following up to a point Cat Empire had made somewhere on our forum.

Cheers fellas.

 

[catempire]

Ahhh see it was not you enjoying a break of many years without a flag that would have caused the pay back gloating.

It was the attitude that your team was the greatest ever and unbeatable going into 2008 finals - that caused the gloating.

If the arrogant Geelong supporters hadn't stirred shit, the arrogant Hawthorn ones, wouldn't have been AS bad.

If you tell somebody their team who just won the premiership, is still the second best team on the day, what would you expect the reaction to be?

Too many Geelong supporters failed to acknowledge that Hawthorn was the better team on the day in 2008, all the excuses were coming out, about bad kicking etcetera.

Then Geelogn supporters tell us NOT to make excuses when we lose, but EVERYBODY does. So *shrug*

Quite the overreaction then. Because Geelong supporters behaving like that were in the extreme minority. And every team has supporters like that who are just best ignored.

For the record, I do not think the umpiring changed the result of the game, it was still there to be won. It's just, as Geelong supporters with the umpire darlings Ablett (in his case, it's not what he gets given, but what IS NOT paid against him) and Selwood, you don't really understand what its like to have the best forward in the competition mauled week in and out, and MAYBE get a soft free kick once every three weeks. That's the only real reason people in Hawthorn land complain, because Franklin would bag 5 a week regardless of form if he got the same treatment as Selwood by the umpires.

You could tell the Geelogn players were surprised when they actually gave away a couple soft free kicks, cause that hasn't happened in like 2 years? Ling was rather uncomposed when he got screwed by the umpire wasn't he? He should try getting that EVERY week.

Sorry to go off topic slightly, was just following up to a point Cat Empire had made somewhere on our forum.

Cheers fellas.

Ablett and Selwood get frees because they put their heads over the ball and get to it first. End of story. Umpires have always and will always err on the side of paying these types of players free kicks, and so they should. There are no "darlings", that is a convenient way for people to sook about free kicks.

As for Buddy, I can only speak about what I saw yesterday and that was nothing. I don't know what happens to him every week. But it has bugger all to do with what Selwood and Ablett do.

The umpiring was generally terrible yesterday. But as most impartial observers have pointed out, Geelong were on the worst end of it.

 

[wolvesjr34]

Quite the overreaction then. Because Geelong supporters behaving like that were in the extreme minority. And every team has supporters like that who are just best ignored.



Ablett and Selwood get frees because they put their heads over the ball and get to it first. End of story. Umpires have always and will always err on the side of paying these types of players free kicks, and so they should. There are no "darlings", that is a convenient way for people to sook about free kicks.

As for Buddy, I can only speak about what I saw yesterday and that was nothing. I don't know what happens to him every week. But it has bugger all to do with what Selwood and Ablett do.

The umpiring was generally terrible yesterday. But as most impartial observers have pointed out, Geelong were on the worst end of it.

So its okay for Ablett to be held for 360 and NOT get pinned for holding the ball?? That happens every week guaranteed.

You guys may have copped a few unfair calls early on in the game, but not many of them led to goals. You guys copped a few iffy decisions go your way also, they DID result in goals.

And Scarlett should have had a 50m penalty against him first kick at goal of the day by the Hawks for driving in with the knees (I don't care that he did that, but it should have been 50).

You also had 7 to 1 free kicks in the final quarter. And always seemed to get some tikki touchwood free in the middle of the ground

But again its rarely about what is paid, but what isn't.

Put it simple for you Geelong is ALLOWED to HOLD THE BALL, Hawthorn and a lot of other teams, are not.

That is what irks me.

The umpiring did not change the result of the game. I have said that, and for the most part Franklin was played fairly in this game.

But I can tell you now you'd be crying fould if every time Selwood went in for the ball and couldn't get it out he got pinged, as happens to ANY Hawthorn player who dares earn the ball.

 

[JUBJUB]

Oh boo hoo,did those naughty umps miss a free that Duddy Wanklin should've got ?
Go whinge on your own bloody board.We don't give a shit about you Dawks whinging and acting like sore losers.

 

[catempire]

So its okay for Ablett to be held for 360 and NOT get pinned for holding the ball?? That happens every week guaranteed.

Yep, it can be. There's nothing in the rule that says anything about being "held for 360". If a player hasn't had prior opportunity, they get a reasonable time to dispose of it after being tackled. If they have, they have to get rid of it immediately.

Ablett gets his hands free in the tackle better than any player I've ever seen. If he didn't, his arms would be pinned and we'd see more ball ups. But because he does, it looks like he is given a long time in the tackle but really he hasn't had prior opportunity so the umpire is (reasonably) giving him the chance to dispose.

You guys may have copped a few unfair calls early on in the game, but not many of them led to goals. You guys copped a few iffy decisions go your way also, they DID result in goals.

Frees are paid on their merits. Whether they led to goals is irrelevant.

And Scarlett should have had a 50m penalty against him first kick at goal of the day by the Hawks for driving in with the knees (I don't care that he did that, but it should have been 50).

Very rarely are such frees paid. Hawthorn are the worst I've seen at roughing up after a mark and they weren't penalised once for it yesterday.

You also had 7 to 1 free kicks in the final quarter. And always seemed to get some tikki touchwood free in the middle of the ground

It's "tiggy".

Amazing what happens when you have the run of play, get first to the ball and put your head over it.

Argue the merits, not the count. There's nothing that says the count must be even.

But again its rarely about what is paid, but what isn't.

Put it simple for you Geelong is ALLOWED to HOLD THE BALL, Hawthorn and a lot of other teams, are not.

That is what irks me.

Your perception is flawed. There is no conspiracy here. Have you considered that Geelong players are better in the tackle situation than other teams? That is what I observe.

The umpiring did not change the result of the game. I have said that, and for the most part Franklin was played fairly in this game.

But I can tell you now you'd be crying fould if every time Selwood went in for the ball and couldn't get it out he got pinged, as happens to ANY Hawthorn player who dares earn the ball.

Not interested in talking conspiracy theories. Highlight decisions that were incorrect or you're wasting your time.

 

[wolvesjr34]

Not interested in talking conspiracy theories. Highlight decisions that were incorrect or you're wasting your time.

Near end of third quarter was it? Campbell Brown misses a mark, a pack forms... Hawthorn pinned for holding the ball.

That decision was pulled out of NOWHERE. As not even the astute (lol) commentators thought anyone was close to being pinged.

Osborne who went in and tried to make the play but then was tackled, was penalised.

I do suggest if that was Selwood, it would be a ball up. That is one example... but there's no point arguing. You're biased, I'm biased.

There would not be a single Geelong fan who would admit ANYTHING in a discussion with a Hawks fan unless it painted their team as perfect.