WSYD How are GWS going off the field?

[Gavin Excell]

Not sure what bubble you living in but everyone knew Slater Smith Cronk and even now everyone knows Pappy, Munster etc.

I love Aussie rules way more but that's a ridiculous comment.

I have zero interest in league
I'm not alone

 

[j09948772]

I don't find that believable. As mentioned in my other post I don't follow soccer but can name at least 1 player from each Melbourne A-League team.

Pretty conclusive evidence then.

 

[mikey127]

I have zero interest in league
I'm not alone

That I don't disagree with what I disagree with is someone saying. No one I know could name a single Storm player, that's just rubbish.

 

[Algorithmic Hot Takes]

Well, this look like a sensible thing to discuss....ok, it's a NRL v AFL trojan....

How W are GWS anyway? Are they like Footscray West or Werribee West?

 

[j09948772]

That I don't disagree with what I disagree with is someone saying. No one I know could name a single Storm player, that's just rubbish.

All because you know a Melbourne Victory player?

 

[Pomsta]

I remember going to a game a couple of years ago. Wasn't a big crowd but the demographic of the Giants fans was interesting. There were a lot of young Asian and Indian families so it seems that the Giants were targeting new Australians who may not have chosen a sport yet. It may take a generation but the Giants will be fine.

 

[desie]

Well, this look like a sensible thing to discuss....ok, it's a NRL v AFL trojan....

How W are GWS anyway? Are they like Footscray West or Werribee West?

For context I grew up in Western Sydney in the 80’s when football had no presence whatsoever. I’ve played, coached junior football and been President and Life Member of a senior club, and I’m a foundation member of the Giants.

Without wanting to sound like a w*nker, I reckon I’m in a reasonable position to comment.

From a Giants perspective, the biggest mistake they’ve made is doing everything humanly possible to signal that they’re not truly a Western Sydney club.

From moving away from Blacktown to Sydney Olympic Park, which is barely Western Sydney, to taking games to Canberra (I get the financial imperative but it’s symbolic). Even the name - the term GWS is not in common usage and means nothing to people unfamiliar with the game - drop the ‘G’ and force people to refer to the club as Western Sydney.

I can pretty much guarantee not one member of the executive, coaching staff or playing group are from Western Sydney or live anywhere near it.

I’ve attended the vast majority of games in Sydney since day one and disappointingly crowds have hardly moved. Perhaps if the wider community genuinely felt that the club were committed to it it would make a difference.

As for the game, it’s gone backwards significantly at a junior level over the last few years, even prior to Covid.

For example, in the broader Penrith region, seven or eight years ago there were four junior clubs who were doing reasonably well. One of those has now folded, two have essentially merged and the other is in pretty poor health.

Yes Covid is relevant, but it was on a downward trajectory prior to that.

Again, from an AFL perspective, all of its senior staff in Sydney are expats who don’t have a true understanding of Western Sydney.

People need to understand that unlike Australian Football which has no natural local competitor, in NSW and Queensland it is essentially split along class lines between League and Union.

The majority of Rugby League fans and its media are working class people who actually hate the AFL, they’ve been brought up that way.

This is why V’Landys is so overtly antagonistic towards the AFL - he knows that his fans and media lap it up.

I know that might seem overly dramatic but it’s true. They’ve had it lorded over them for decades about the AFL’s crowds and the professionalism of its administration in comparison to theirs (outside of John Quayle and Ken Arthurson many years back this is largely valid).

The game has come a long way no doubt but without a change in approach it’s going to continue to be a massive struggle.

 

[LordLucifer]

After moving to Sydney for work in 1995, I took out a membership in the Giants debut year because I genuinely want to see the code expand & dominate in the northern states.

I do think they are making good progress in a tough market, in fact many non-NSW footy followers are probably unaware of the huge task ahead of them but when they fully breakthrough, it will be a watershed moment for the game. Their club song is super catchy and their playing strip is unique with the orange in it so those aspects are winning for them.

I am of the opinion that the AFL have erred in their thinking by having the Giants play some of their home games in Canberra. Rather see a full time ACT-based club (i.e. Canberra Kangaroos) than a FIFO model like we have now.

For what it's worth, I can see a third Sydney based club being established in the not too distant future. The game is growing all the time up here so a new club on the north shore/northern beaches should be a successful venture. Chuck in the Illawarra & Central Coast and there could be 6 teams in NSW/ACT which would be sensational for the game overall.

 

[Algorithmic Hot Takes]

From a Giants perspective, the biggest mistake they’ve made is doing everything humanly possible to signal that they’re not truly a Western Sydney club.

From moving away from Blacktown to Sydney Olympic Park, which is barely Western Sydney, to taking games to Canberra (I get the financial imperative but it’s symbolic). Even the name - the term GWS is not in common usage and means nothing to people unfamiliar with the game - drop the ‘G’ and force people to refer to the club as Western Sydney.

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful.
Do you remember why they moved East? Was it facilities?
Yeah, the Canberra thing is daft, and because of that the vague name just doesn't seem to saying 'We're your team Western Sydney!'
Penrith Pumas would have been good for a laugh.

The majority of Rugby League fans and its media are working class people who actually hate the AFL, they’ve been brought up that way.

That's fair. I think the same is/was the case in Vic. regarding league. Media need to get tribalism and division going to generate content. Placing themselves at Breakfast Point (I think) wouldn't help someone in the working class west appreciate GWS.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I don't know if anybody has watched the Australian series Mr Inbetween, however at one point two of the central characters meet up at a Gianta game. It looks pretty clear that it was filmed live too, as opposed to just the old green screen background.

Anyway, I felt it was an interesting choice because the show is essentially set in underworld Sydney, but the main characters choose Aussie Rules as opposed to NRL.

This show has a bit of a cult following overseas too I believe, so the involvement of the Giants game was actually quite lucky on behalf of promoting the AFL as Australia's biggest sport.



Had this show been made in 2010 you'd have to think the AFL wouldn't have been given the feature and it would have been an NRL game the characters attended.

 

[Prince Imperial]

I don't know if anybody has watched the Australian series Mr Inbetween, however at one point two of the central characters meet up at a Gianta game. It looks pretty clear that it was filmed live too, as opposed to just the old green screen background.

Anyway, I felt it was an interesting choice because the show is essentially set in underworld Sydney, but the main characters choose Aussie Rules as opposed to NRL.

This show has a bit of a cult following overseas too I believe, so the involvement of the Giants game was actually quite lucky on behalf of promoting the AFL as Australia's biggest sport.



Had this show been made in 2010 you'd have to think the AFL wouldn't have been given the feature and it would have been an NRL game the characters attended.

The show's star and writer (Scott Ryan) is from Melbourne. It's a fabulous show but I don't think we should read much into it.

 

[desie]

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful.
Do you remember why they moved East? Was it facilities?
Yeah, the Canberra thing is daft, and because of that the vague name just doesn't seem to saying 'We're your team Western Sydney!'
Penrith Pumas would have been good for a laugh.


That's fair. I think the same is/was the case in Vic. regarding league. Media need to get tribalism and division going to generate content. Placing themselves at Breakfast Point (I think) wouldn't help someone in the working class west appreciate GWS.

I think it was so that they could live, train in play within the same precinct. It’s a good 30-40 minutes from Sydney Olympic Park to Blacktown.

It just sent a message that they were abandoning Western Sydney pretty early on.

 

[Colonial]

We didn’t move away from Blacktown, we weren’t allowed to be there full time.

The cricket mad mayor at the time and NSW cricket had their dream of a head quarters there.
They used AFL to get the funding.

And Western Sydney isn’t just Penrith.

It’s made up of the inner West, Sth West, North West etc etc. The only spot that is easy access from all those locations is Olympic Park, still West just not on the outer west.

But I’m also of the opinion being part time has hurt the club.

 

[Colonial]

I think it was so that they could live, train in play within the same precinct. It’s a good 30-40 minutes from Sydney Olympic Park to Blacktown.

Nope

It just sent a message that they were abandoning Western Sydney pretty early on.

That was the Canberra deal in my opinion.
Not being in Penrith doesn’t mean you aren’t west.

 

[HairyO]

You said 'don't know anyone who would be able to name a single player'

Even if we go with current players very few people in Melbourne especially sports fans wouldn't know Munster or Pappy.

Ive lived in Sydney since 1989 and wouldnt know more than a couple of players across the NRL. I could probably name 200 AFL players.

 

[mikey127]

Ive lived in Sydney since 1989 and wouldnt know more than a couple of players across the NRL. I could probably name 200 AFL players.

No argument there Sydney is a totally different city to Melbourne.

 

[HairyO]

No argument there Sydney is a totally different city to Melbourne.

Also none of my friends are big on NRL and any who like sports Ive converted to Aussie Rules.

 

[mikey127]

Also none of my friends are big on NRL and any who like sports Ive converted to Aussie Rules.

Yeah Sydney just doesn't have thr sporting passion of Melbourne. Plenty of passionate sporting people in regional NSW tho

 

[Footy Smarts]

That was the Canberra deal in my opinion.
Not being in Penrith doesn’t mean you aren’t west.

Nobody was suggesting putting it in Penrith but Olympic Park is such a terrible place to base a team and it's definitely left them at a disadvantage.

The AFL should've pushed for something much more modest probably in Parramatta. Somewhere that the base is actually among the community rather than in a concrete bubble that the average Sydney sider avoids like the plague.

The AFL are seen at outsiders in western Sydney. Then they place the team in a shitty place away from any community. And then move a third of their games to another city. The club itself seems to be doing a lot right but the initial setup by the AFL should go down as one of the great displays of incompetence in sports admin history.

 

[Aussie in exile]

For context I grew up in Western Sydney in the 80’s when football had no presence whatsoever. I’ve played, coached junior football and been President and Life Member of a senior club, and I’m a foundation member of the Giants.

Without wanting to sound like a w*nker, I reckon I’m in a reasonable position to comment.

From a Giants perspective, the biggest mistake they’ve made is doing everything humanly possible to signal that they’re not truly a Western Sydney club.

From moving away from Blacktown to Sydney Olympic Park, which is barely Western Sydney, to taking games to Canberra (I get the financial imperative but it’s symbolic). Even the name - the term GWS is not in common usage and means nothing to people unfamiliar with the game - drop the ‘G’ and force people to refer to the club as Western Sydney.

I can pretty much guarantee not one member of the executive, coaching staff or playing group are from Western Sydney or live anywhere near it.

I’ve attended the vast majority of games in Sydney since day one and disappointingly crowds have hardly moved. Perhaps if the wider community genuinely felt that the club were committed to it it would make a difference.

As for the game, it’s gone backwards significantly at a junior level over the last few years, even prior to Covid.

For example, in the broader Penrith region, seven or eight years ago there were four junior clubs who were doing reasonably well. One of those has now folded, two have essentially merged and the other is in pretty poor health.

Yes Covid is relevant, but it was on a downward trajectory prior to that.

Again, from an AFL perspective, all of its senior staff in Sydney are expats who don’t have a true understanding of Western Sydney.

People need to understand that unlike Australian Football which has no natural local competitor, in NSW and Queensland it is essentially split along class lines between League and Union.

The majority of Rugby League fans and its media are working class people who actually hate the AFL, they’ve been brought up that way.

This is why V’Landys is so overtly antagonistic towards the AFL - he knows that his fans and media lap it up.

I know that might seem overly dramatic but it’s true. They’ve had it lorded over them for decades about the AFL’s crowds and the professionalism of its administration in comparison to theirs (outside of John Quayle and Ken Arthurson many years back this is largely valid).

The game has come a long way no doubt but without a change in approach it’s going to continue to be a massive struggle.

This article is from nearly 2 years ago, but there appears to be the same problems that you have pointed out.

AFL fails to win over western Sydney and is underestimating the NRL

Figures have revealed that just one per cent of sports participants in western Sydney are playing Aussie Rules, adding pressure on the AFL to help the Giants land the Tigers superstar.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Jezzitizle]

I remember going to a game a couple of years ago. Wasn't a big crowd but the demographic of the Giants fans was interesting. There were a lot of young Asian and Indian families so it seems that the Giants were targeting new Australians who may not have chosen a sport yet. It may take a generation but the Giants will be fine.

I live in Parramatta and have been to a few Giants games last year.

I was really surprised that there were very very few people who were not Caucasian.

Parramatta is predominantly immigrants from the sub continent or first generation these days, I definitely thought they hadn’t penetrated the market.

There are predominantly Asian areas just south of Olympic park where the Giants play, which also weren’t represented at all at the games.

There are also big Muslim communities nearby around Auburn.

I think the key for the Giants is focussing on these communities and getting the kids in schools playing the game, then generation 2/3/4 will be where they get the growth. Don’t be surprised if they are the biggest club in the country or top 6 in 50 years, so long as you hey aren’t adding AFL clubs to the market to compete with them.

Interestingly, there is a large public primary school very close to us, which offers AFL but not rugby for the kids. There are very few Caucasian children going there.

Generally when I see AusKick being played, which isn’t often, again seems to be mostly Caucasians.

I’m from Perth, Sydney is quite different in there being areas where there are almost exclusively people from one part of the world or the other, so I think if you can get to a critical mass of interest in that community you are set.

I think if the Giants can bring through talent from communities not usually associated with AFL that would be critical too. A bit like the African trail breakers and now we are really seeing more kids coming through the pathway and aspiring to play AFL.

I really love the power of sport to bring our communities together, that alone is a good reason to hope the Giants are successful. People identify as fans of the club, not just members of their original country or region.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Know someone that works on the fringe of the club.
He said they are rapt with the generational family membership they have.
Figures show they have a lot of grandparent ,children grandchildren from the same family.
He seems to think 20 years from now thier club will have absolute rock solid membership similar to the bigger Victorian clubs.

 

[Colonial]

Know someone that works on the fringe of the club.
He said they are rapt with the generational family membership they have.
Figures show they have a lot of grandparent ,children grandchildren from the same family.
He seems to think 20 years from now thier club will have absolute rock solid membership similar to the bigger Victorian clubs.

What you always notice at Giants games, and something that will be very noticeable tonight, is that the vast majority are families, plenty of kids.

So while the crowd may look 50/50, or there abouts, have no doubt the pies will be louder due to that.

Our future is bright, thankfully the AFL are running the league and not the NRL. Those muppets couldn’t stick with something if they tried.

 

[Iamspock]

Would/does it also coincide with the fact that Penrith have been extremely successful through these last few years after Covid as well? So that they are pretty much capturing the market?

 

[Colonial]

Would/does it also coincide with the fact that Penrith have been extremely successful through these last few years after Covid as well? So that they are pretty much capturing the market?

I wouldn’t say by much, Penrith are still “low drawing”.
I honestly don’t think that Penrith, or the other Western Sydney NRL sides, being successful on field changes much.

It is generational, we are getting the young families that will grow into Giants families and generational fans.