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Higs said:
We don't have a forward line because our 2 best forwards Pav and Ballas are currently delivering mediocre midfield efforts, because our excellent coaching staff have decided thats where they're most needed
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Sounds like similar calls being made about Goodes being played as a forward when he's a gun midfielder.

Freo have been ravaged by injury all year, they had a good run early in the year against some average teams, but with that many injuries it was always gonna be hard for you guys to make finals. 2012 will be a big year for you guys, provided you don't have another horror injury run. I'd expect you guys to go a little better than you did in 2010. Calling for Harvey's head is an overreaction imo, we all saw what was possible in 2010, injuries just killed off your progress.
 
I wish i could believe that goswannies.

But ive watched every freaking game
What ive seen i find hard to believe injuries can effect it.

I find it hard to believe injuries effect players ability to apply pressure an not get pushed off the ball with barely any effort.
I find it hard to believe injuries effect players ability to keep there head over the ball an be willing to risk copping a knock to win the ball for your team.
I find it hard to believe injuries cause the team to go from a great gameplan that caused even the best teams in comp to struggle.
To what we have now that causes avg teams to belt the living daylights out of us.

I find it hard to believe i havent destroyed any freo crap lying around the house right now
 
The good thing about Footy is that when going into a new season last season has no bearing what so ever. The Eagles are the perfect example of that (unfortunately). We had a terrible pre-season and myriad injuries and the second half of the season has seen us pay for that.

Injuries are an excuse but our endeavour is Inexcusable. Next season will tell if Havey is the man to coach into an era of success.
 

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What makes it all the more painful is to see how lowly Brisbane pushed Collingwood all the way to the wire. Heavily outclassed, but an incredible never-say-die attitude that will give them a lot of heart for 2012.
 
Sman-21 said:
I wish i could believe that goswannies.

But ive watched every freaking game
What ive seen i find hard to believe injuries can effect it.

I find it hard to believe injuries effect players ability to apply pressure an not get pushed off the ball with barely any effort.
I find it hard to believe injuries effect players ability to keep there head over the ball an be willing to risk copping a knock to win the ball for your team.
I find it hard to believe injuries cause the team to go from a great gameplan that caused even the best teams in comp to struggle.
To what we have now that causes avg teams to belt the living daylights out of us.

I find it hard to believe i havent destroyed any freo crap lying around the house right now
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If a rabble like West Coast last year can turn it around in one season, Freo can. I went to some of their games last year and they were nothing short of deplorable. A WAFL side would have thrashed them. A good pre-season and good run with injuries would make a huge impact - it has for them....
 
Bradesmaen said:
There is structure up forward. Just because Pavlich doesn't play down there doesn't mean it has no ****ing structure. God the amount of people on here that are as ****ing thick as two short planks is ridiculous. Get a footy education ffs.
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I actually agree with you here Brades.

Having played as a leading forward and defender for all the time I've played, it's the delivery that determines your ability to structure up in the forward line.

You simply don't lead when the delivery is poor. There is no point.

And it is one of my bug bears on this board.

When our delivery was good early, our structure was good. As soon as the delivery fell apart, the structure did. Because you can't have any sort of structure or tactics when there is no predictable delivery.
 
Spoken4 said:
If a rabble like West Coast last year can turn it around in one season, Freo can. I went to some of their games last year and they were nothing short of deplorable. A WAFL side would have thrashed them. A good pre-season and good run with injuries would make a huge impact - it has for them....
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Not so sure about that though. The thing with Eagles is they have a winning culture, they were never going to be at the bottom for long. Unfortunately we don't have a successful club culture, and therefore we can't have the same confidence in this team turning it around. I hope we do, but I think we are a long way off winning a premiership
 

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Chops_a_must said:
You simply don't lead when the delivery is poor. There is no point.
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Wow! Of course there is. Nothing is going to change if you simply give up and stay static.

Even if the pill doesn't come to you, you keep leading regardless. You help open space for teammates and draw zoned opponents. Additionally, you build a structure and understanding between teammates. How is a midfielder going to learn to hit you on the tit on the lead if you never lead?

Suggesting that players should stop leading because the delivery is poor is absurd.
 
Chops_a_must said:
I actually agree with you here Brades.

Having played as a leading forward and defender for all the time I've played, it's the delivery that determines your ability to structure up in the forward line.

You simply don't lead when the delivery is poor. There is no point.

And it is one of my bug bears on this board.

When our delivery was good early, our structure was good. As soon as the delivery fell apart, the structure did. Because you can't have any sort of structure or tactics when there is no predictable delivery.
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Yes but McPhee isn't a leading forward. Nor is Hinkley. Or Palmer. Or Johnson.

Our forward line is the worst in the league. Mark Nicoski would be our leading goalkicker this season
 
Underdog said:
Wow! Of course there is. Nothing is going to change if you simply give up and stay static.

Even if the pill doesn't come to you, you keep leading regardless. You help open space for teammates and draw zoned opponents. Additionally, you build a structure and understanding between teammates. How is a midfielder going to learn to hit you on the tit on the lead if you never lead?

Suggesting that players should stop leading because the delivery is poor is absurd.
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Not really, you play completely differently. You have to. If you're leading and the team is missing targets, usually it's over your head.

It's why one dimensional forwards like JA get crucified in our team. Tell him there is value in continuing to lead to our midfield.

Leslie_Chow said:
Yes but McPhee isn't a leading forward. Nor is Hinkley. Or Palmer. Or Johnson.

Our forward line is the worst in the league. Mark Nicoski would be our leading goalkicker this season
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Johnson is a leading forward. A good one, because he can also take contested marks when moving to the ball.
 
Underdog said:
Wow! Of course there is. Nothing is going to change if you simply give up and stay static.

Even if the pill doesn't come to you, you keep leading regardless. You help open space for teammates and draw zoned opponents. Additionally, you build a structure and understanding between teammates. How is a midfielder going to learn to hit you on the tit on the lead if you never lead?

Suggesting that players should stop leading because the delivery is poor is absurd.
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And our forwards don't stop leading overall, BUT, it doesn't stop them second guessing, poorly timing their runs, working just that little be less etc. because the confidence and mojo of it all just collapses when the delivery is constantly p**s poor or under extreme pressure.

As for structure, Brades is right. We have a structure that is fairly standard around the league. It is a lead twin fwd (SNOS and Mayne for a good part of the 2nd quarter as an example, MJ earlier, it changed a bit throughout) etc.

As for the open space fwd line, well that happens AS WELL. When you get stoppages up the ground, the field presses up and that leaves space over the back. Nothing revolutionary there, most teams do it. NM did it to us. The issue is that we're lacking run, delivery and organisation. Some of our important players in tonight to use that space (Hinckley and Balla for example). Just couldn't get the ball quick enough and used it poorly when they did. There's more to it than that, but that's basically it.

In short, structure isn't the issue as such, it's the the execution pretty much across the ground which was poor. More the issue, the defensive pressure when we DON'T have the ball which is something which will keep you in the game even when you aren't executing well was ordinary and got worse as the game went on. On top of that, the lack of match fitness and confidence just showed more and more as the game went on exacerbating things.

Those who simplify the whole thing (or even the main thing) to 'Pav isn't fwd i.e. we don't have a fwd structure' etc. just demonstrate how little they know of the game AFAIC.
 
Do we even practice basic skills anymore? Do we even have a structure? Do our players even know what toughness is anymore? Lets get the BASICS right first before doing all this ****ing weird left-of-field shit that Harvey likes to pull out of his sleeve.
 
PapaJ said:
As for structure, Brades is right. We have a structure that is fairly standard around the league. It is a lead twin fwd (SNOS and Mayne for a good part of the 2nd quarter as an example, MJ earlier, it changed a bit throughout) etc.
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Having the right mix of talls and smalls is far from having a structure. That's just having personnel.
 

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PapaJ said:
Those who simplify the whole thing (or even the main thing) to 'Pav isn't fwd i.e. we don't have a fwd structure' etc. just demonstrate how little they know of the game AFAIC.
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Your forward structure looks heaps better with Pav forward because he's a gun forward as opposed to MJ or Kepler. Additionally, he's just an average midfielder.

Criticising people for essentially pointing that out is absurd.
 
Underdog said:
Having the right mix of talls and smalls is far from having a structure. That's just having personnel.
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I think I know what you're saying, and you're right. It's probably better to call it a strategy or a system. In any case, I think it's there as such, just breaking down and, particularly tonight, being let down by the goings on up the field. Let's face it, the Dockers are breaking down everywhere as the season unfolds.

You can have the game plan/structure/system/strategy from God himself and it won't work if the players can't/won't execute or don't have the legs or confidence etc. to make it work. My point is it's the later that may well be the issue for us, not the former.
 
Keep the chin up folks, it is not indicative of the talent you guys have on the list. It was a bit too top heavy when combined with underdone guys. Just missed a lot of targets even when not under pressure.
 
If a team is at a stage where forwards don't lead because their teammates can't deliver a football -you are probably playing some sort of part time sunday league beer belly competition.

This is AFL ffs - if you can't hit a target most of the time you shouldn't be there. Forward that don't lead come on!!
 

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