How long can it continue?

[wehavethepassion]

We got pansted again in the clearances yesterday(V Crows) but won the hit outs. Due to sani we usually win the hitout count but not the clearance count.

I read somewhere the jack sheedy(or was it steve marsh) said a rover worth his salt would tell the ruckman where to hit/palm the ball.

Yes Sandi does get his hand on the ball most times but has he really got the skill to place it to our advantage? I think his best season was in 2010. has it pass him by? What is mark stone/spider burton doing? should our midfielders be asking/demanding more of sandi?

As for Zac Clarke, spider burton(ruck coach) needs to be pushing him up against the lockers and demanding he use his athetic prowess to jump over opposing rucks because he tries to mix with them and gets beaten a majority of times. needs a spell at east perth and lets griffin play with sandi.

As for the midfield(and yes it has been debated on BF many times and many more times to come) crowley blanketted thompson but sloane and dangerfield pop up. Premiership sides have at least 6-8 grade midfielders who all can't be tagged simultaneously

The midfield is the start, middle and and end of the story and lyon understands this and i have confidence he will develop one that gets us regular finals appearances instead of an appearance once every 3 yrs!

When at saints he had workhorses in hayes and ball(tagger clint jones) and the cream on the outside in del santo & montagna(lesser extend schneider and ray), Goddard was also in there as well.

King(more so in 2009) and gardiner were the rucks and played a very pivotal role in getting their midfield first use of the ball.

one doesn't play in three GF's in two yrs with a mug midfield.

Ross Lyon" you play finals by winning home and away games and you do that by planning each day and training at an elite level"

 

[Dr Pepper]

I think both Sandi and the midfield need a lift. As many people have already said, we're lacking a couple of ball winners and chances are we will keep getting beaten in the midfield for most of the season. Sandi though is a bit of an issue, hes an experienced player, is getting paid a lot of coin and lacks the passion to make the most out of his ability. I suspect in all his years of footy he wouldve been told to show more ticker by one of his coaches. So what do ya do?

I think Griffin is getting the raw end of all this because he could have a good game and be shoved aside simply because Sandi becomes available. Then we have Clarke who we are trying to use as a forward/ruck, can have a shit game and yet be there next weekend. Doesnt seem fair on Griffo IMO and this has to be playing in his mind too. I really think that if Griffo is given the chance to earn his spot he'd become a better player. Last time I saw him play he looked a man who didnt care... can you blame him?


There will be a couple of teams looking for a ruckman at seasons end including Collingwood and GWS. I wonder what Sandi's worth as trade bait.

 

[Lord Rod]

Ross seems to be sorting the list out..

In him we trust..

 

[se17enteen]

When are we going to confront the giant elephant in the room, Sandilands is our weakness. I'm all for trading him but no club is stupid enough to go for him. They would have to pay him $900k a year. Plus they won't want a ruckman who keeps giving the opposition first use. He's not even damaging in the forwardline. He's been worked out.

 

[dockshark]

When are we going to confront the giant elephant in the room, Sandilands is our weakness. I'm all for trading him but no club is stupid enough to go for him. They would have to pay him $900k a year. Plus they won't want a ruckman who keeps giving the opposition first use. He's not even damaging in the forwardline. He's been worked out.

I tend to agree with the crux of this, Sandilands is vastly overated (and over paid) and has never reached the heights (excuse the bad pun) that we all hoped he would. I doubt that there would be much (if any) interest from other clubs considering his age, increasing injuries, and how much money he would want. I've said it before....but I would prefer Griffin as the startring ruck whilst we are trying to develop a midfield.

One thing that has to be worth a try though is to give Clarke a spell in the WAFL, bring Griffin in as starting ruck and plant Sandilands in the goal square for most of the game. If nothing else this would straighten us up, give us a target on the goal line and give the opposition defence a headache....

 

[Nickos66]

Just playing devils advocate here but, If Sandi wasn't here could we really rely on Griffin OR Clarke to run out a full season in the ruck? Personally I can't see it, and then we'd start blaming them for our midfielders shortcomings once again.

 

[prattsta]

Just playing devils advocate here but, If Sandi wasn't here could we really rely on Griffin OR Clarke to run out a full season in the ruck? Personally I can't see it, and then we'd start blaming them for our midfielders shortcomings once again.

Yep. The ruck situation at the club is the only really solid area we have; other than KPD.

We have 2 legitimate first choice ruckmen and a young up and comer that is capable of holding his own for brief periods. None of them are taking up list/cap space unnecessarily and they all have a key role to play.

Maybe Sandilands could come under more scrutiny at match committee, but he's a multiple All-Australian capable of dominating his position like few others in the AFL. It'd be a pretty tough call and I'd imagine we'd need to be struggling a LOT more than we are now for it to be considered seriously.

As an aside, it's looking like we'll have a Griffin/Sandilands combo this week...

 

[caterina]

I tend to agree with the crux of this, Sandilands is vastly overated

Nah I tend to (strongly) disagree

But every player can be traded for a price, with Sandi closer to the end of his career than the start and GWS needing a ruckman if they offered us coniglio and cameron, then yeah!

 

[feds2000]

It's not sandilands, never was, the BEST (by best i mean consistant and skilled) midfielders we have ever had were Haslebe and Bell, both those guys never had a problem fighting opposition for sandilands scraps.

Its just now with our god awful clearance team that teams understand we are NOT accountable for clearances and the can concentrate on sharking the taps without much of a defensive mindset

Coming from a lot of football experience myself, If we were against subpar midfielders without good clearance players, we would smash them and use a zoned center bounce formation not a man on man setup, most teams do this to dockers over last few years. (barlows heyday we turned tide and had teams maning up alot)

Think back to Collingwood getting smashed by a 100 odd points, that season we had our midfield flying and Sandilands absolutely gunned it. He's better now than he was then.

 

[dockshark]

Nah I tend to (strongly) disagree

That's fair enough. You then think that Sandilands is worth the $700K+ that we are paying him? You think that his skills and influence around the ground have reached his potential? You think that he is an above average ruckman? You are happy with his contribution when he goes forward?

There are several ruckmen in the league that are more influencial to their teams results but are payed less than Sandi....

 

[Stronzo]

Sandi was a lot better on the weekend. Started to get down and dirty, and that's where his real value is - clearances and body work.

Get on the big Juggernaut for the second half of the year.

 

[Dr Pepper]

That's fair enough. You then think that Sandilands is worth the $700K+ that we are paying him? You think that his skills and influence around the ground have reached his potential? You think that he is an above average ruckman? You are happy with his contribution when he goes forward?

There are several ruckmen in the league that are more influential to their teams results but are payed less than Sandi....

I think hes getting paid just under $1 mill which makes it even worse. So hes probably our highest paid player.

As a ruckman he has been figured out, with opposition mids sharking off him. I think this weekend they will use him in the goal square more now that Griff is in.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Sandilands isnt a great tap ruckman, he just doesnt soft hands but I thought he has improved this year.

Having Lower, Fyfe and Morabito running through the midfield will help a lot, Lower had 10 clearances on the wkend.

I would also say, we need to give Stone some more time to drill all the midfield players, there is probably 14 players who run through the midfield who need to understand our stoppage plan.

 

[freocynic]

Sandilands is sooooooo over rated its not funny!

He racks up meaningless stats, like hit outs. Who cares about hit outs???? He scores well in dream team as the rest of the team bomb the ball to him for a pack mark. Oh and he gets the points for his hit outs too. (even though they usually go to the opposition). He rarely influences a game and he continually puts his team mates under pressure by giving off a 2 metre hand ball. He is not a great shot at goal, can barely kick it 50 metres.

He will not go down in any hall of fame for anything other than being the tallest player in the league.

 

[se17enteen]

Sandilands is sooooooo over rated its not funny!

He racks up meaningless stats, like hit outs. Who cares about hit outs???? He scores well in dream team as the rest of the team bomb the ball to him for a pack mark. Oh and he gets the points for his hit outs too. (even though they usually go to the opposition). He rarely influences a game and he continually puts his team mates under pressure by giving off a 2 metre hand ball. He is not a great shot at goal, can barely kick it 50 metres.

He will not go down in any hall of fame for anything other than being the tallest player in the league.

2 goals. highest he's ever kicked in one game. You would think he's unstoppable with the chopping of the arms and hands in the back rule. $900k a year.

 

[caterina]

He racks up meaningless stats, like hit outs. Who cares about hit outs???? .

At first I was laughing at your nice use of irony, but then I read the rest of your post and realised you were serious

 

[freocynic]

At first I was laughing at your nice use of irony, but then I read the rest of your post and realised you were serious

We really missed him today!

(Thats my use of sarcasm)

 

[Bradesmaen]

Either people are trolling.. or they are part time Fremantle fans.

 

[Centurions]

I think people also forget that when Mundy isnt in there we are basically playing rookie listed players against 1st rounders at most clubs...there is a reason why players are rookie listed and 1st rounders 90% of the time.

we just don't have enough quality mids with clean hands in the clearances..

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I f my memory serves me well , Deboer was a rookie elevation in 2010.

You'd be hard pressed to find better midfielder stats than Deboer's today.
that is two very impressive games from Matt now.
Add Barlow's game today and the two of them ripped up one of the better fancied midfields in the comp.
I think it matters little if they were a No1 draft pick or a rookie.

 

[dockshark]

Either people are trolling.. or they are part time Fremantle fans.

Like it or not......Currently our midfield operates more effectively without Sandilands. Opposition midfield coaches have admitted that they put all theri planning into sharking Sandi's taps. As someone mentioned above, Sandi has been figured out. People are sentimental.....but that doesn't change reality. We are better off with Griffin than Sandi at the moment imho, and I certainly don't consider myself a part time fan or a troll.

 

[IanW]

Nah I tend to (strongly) disagree

But every player can be traded for a price, with Sandi closer to the end of his career than the start and GWS needing a ruckman if they offered us coniglio and cameron, then yeah!

You're dreaming if you think either Coniglio or Cameron would be traded for Sandilands. His salary alone means GWS wont go after him - we need a backup ruckman for the 2-3 years to cover for Giles until Phillips finishes growing.

 

[dockshark]

At first I was laughing at your nice use of irony, but then I read the rest of your post and realised you were serious

His point is sound. Hitouts itself is a pretty meaningless stat. It is hitouts to advantage and clearances that matter....we are being comprehensively beaten in both when Sandilands rucks.

 

[Purple Suit]

This thread is embarrassing. Sandi will be on the vets list next year so we're paying $450 k in the cap to have one of the top ruck men in our team. He won't be traded and is the best contested mark in our team.

If we lose the clearances, people blame Sandi for not dishing it to the mids. The mids are just as much to blame and sandi's taps to advantage were still in the top 5 for the league last time I checked. Clearances are a scrap more times than not, we got in and dirty yesterday and that is why we won them, not because Sandi was injured.

This simple one reason blame game is what the media does because they think punters are stupid. Half of you fall into that category.

 

[dockshark]

This thread is embarrassing. Sandi will be on the vets list next year so we're paying $450 k in the cap to have one of the top ruck men in our team. He won't be traded and is the best contested mark in our team.

If we lose the clearances, people blame Sandi for not dishing it to the mids. The mids are just as much to blame and sandi's taps to advantage were still in the top 5 for the league last time I checked. Clearances are a scrap more times than not, we got in and dirty yesterday and that is why we won them, not because Sandi was injured.

This simple one reason blame game is what the media does because they think punters are stupid. Half of you fall into that category.

This post is embarrassing. You have a go at people's posting simplistic stuff and call us stupid (very mature by the way!) but you are looking at the whole situation too simplistically. The fact is that Sandilands in the ruck is not really working for us at the moment with the midfield players we have. We are up against superior midfields most every week, and they are getting more advantage from Sandi's ruck taps than we are.....this is a fact taht emotion and sentiment can't change. Sandilands may be a superior ruckman to Griffin in his own right, but this is a team game and I am simply pondering who is the best for the team. At this point (and especially with Fyfe and Mora out) I believe Griffin gives us the best oppurtunity to win.

Just because you don't agree with something someone posts is not a reason to label them as stupid. It just makes you look like a jerk.