How long can we afford these experiments?

[Murph_S13]

During the North game (I've been on holidays for a week), I began wondering how long we could maintain a couple of experimental selections.

The first is Michael Quinn. This is a real "feel-good" selection. He was pretty serviceable in his first game, given his background in our game, but far less so — perhaps even a liability at key points — in the North game. It's a great story and I wish him great success, but would the match committee select a bloke who hadn't played well at Bendigo or in practice matches if he wasn't a novelty Irish recruit? Simply, there are many better-equipped players available and we cannot afford to continue the experiment. If Quinn reaches a level similar to that attained by Marty Clark for Collingwood, then go for it. Until then, . . . (and, yes, I know he's been dropped for the ANZAC game).

The second is Paddy Ryder as support ruckman. Apart from his leap, which is only really useful at centre bounces as a ruckman, his frame and height aren't suited to the role and he looks increasingly less comfortable (and interested?). To add to the problem, we lose coherence in defence where Ryder played quite well at CHB last season. I haven't seen Bellchambers this year at Bendigo, but he showed distinct promise late last season and during the pre-season comp. I simply don't see that there's a net benefit in rucking Ryder.

 

[fishguts]

During the North game (I've been on holidays for a week), I began wondering how long we could maintain a couple of experimental selections.

The first is Michael Quinn. This is a real "feel-good" selection. He was pretty serviceable in his first game, given his background in our game, but far less so — perhaps even a liability at key points — in the North game. It's a great story and I wish him great success, but would the match committee select a bloke who hadn't played well at Bendigo or in practice matches if he wasn't a novelty Irish recruit? Simply, there are many better-equipped players available and we cannot afford to continue the experiment. If Quinn reaches a level similar to that attained by Marty Clark for Collingwood, then go for it. Until then, . . . (and, yes, I know he's been dropped for the ANZAC game).

The second is Paddy Ryder as support ruckman. Apart from his leap, which is only really useful at centre bounces as a ruckman, his frame and height aren't suited to the role and he looks increasingly less comfortable (and interested?). To add to the problem, we lose coherence in defence where Ryder played quite well at CHB last season. I haven't seen Bellchambers this year at Bendigo, but he showed distinct promise late last season and during the pre-season comp. I simply don't see that there's a net benefit in rucking Ryder.

On Quinn, to say he didn't warranted selection is really plain stupid. If Quinn played better and wanted the ball more then all our over senior players, then he deserves a game, and that's exactly what he got.

As for Ryder, I agree to an extent. I would prefer Bellchambers as a back up Ruck man, but playing Ryder as the 2nd Ruck man allows us to play one more runner, and so far that really hasn't cost us.

 

[Rack Watts]

The thing with Ryder is we are saving a player slot in having him playing the Ruck/Forward role, that leaves more room for run on the bench.

 

[BringBackCransberg]

Additionally I think Ryder is improving as a ruckman, although slowly (relatively early days yet). I don't think he looks less comfortable/interested -- he has that mien but he's just not the white line fever kinda guy. (He is one of the best tacklers at the club yet doesn't seem to have an ounce of aggro in him.) I was at the Freo game, and I may be wrong, but it looked like a couple of times he was trying a different approach to throw-ins -- taking a bit of a run up -- which seemed to work well. With improved timing in the middle and more innovations (cos he's never gonna be "the usual" type of ruckman) I think he's showing that he's on the right track to becoming viable in that spot, as a backup ruck.

 

[Murph_S13]

On Quinn, to say he didn't warranted selection is really plain stupid.

Really? He can't kick properly and has only a rudimentary idea of playing as an AFL defender. I think his inexperience cost the team at least two goals in each of the games he's played so far.

I'm not suggesting he be sent home to Ireland, but surely it's ludicrous to pick him in a senior home and away game for Premiership points with only a couple of practice games experience! He hadn't even played for Bendigo. A sentimental decision rather than a professional one.

 

[Kong]

Sigh. How many different threads are going to be created to ask the same questions?

 

[fishguts]

Really? He can't kick properly and has only a rudimentary idea of playing as an AFL defender. I think his inexperience cost the team at least two goals in each of the games he's played so far.

I'm not suggesting he be sent home to Ireland, but surely it's ludicrous to pick him in a senior home and away game for Premiership points with only a couple of practice games experience! He hadn't even played for Bendigo. A sentimental decision rather than a professional one.

He hadn't even played for Bendigo?

After that, I'm not even going to divulge further.

 

[B-Bomber]

Sigh. How many different threads are going to be created to ask the same questions?

Exactly 13.634. Just so you have more to read and moderate whomb

 

[ant555]

Really? He can't kick properly and has only a rudimentary idea of playing as an AFL defender. I think his inexperience cost the team at least two goals in each of the games he's played so far.

I'm not suggesting he be sent home to Ireland, but surely it's ludicrous to pick him in a senior home and away game for Premiership points with only a couple of practice games experience! He hadn't even played for Bendigo. A sentimental decision rather than a professional one.

Get your facts right !!!. Quinn had two games for Bendigo in a row where he was in the best three including one against Geelong at Kardinia Park in which Geelong fielded a full stregth seconds side that had 15 AFL listed players.

Secondly in the North game he did not give up two goals. He gave up none and kept Campbell to 4 possessions.
He has been dropped and rightly so this week but he has now had the experience and will be a better player for it.
In the two games he played he did not cost us a win.

As far as Ryder goes they are in a spot that can not be helped. Laycock is injured and Bellchambers has not bee going all that well for Bendigo and on top of that T-Bell is still several years away from slotting straight into the ruck spot and giving us something around the ground.
The Ryder thing is not an experiment. Ryder was drafted after being a ruckman / forward in the under 18's.

You ask how long we can keep up with the experiments. As long as it takes to get a core group of young blokes with 20 to 30 games under their belt.
If you want a flag in 2011 then these blokes have to pay now.
Despite your opinion Quinn never actually hurt us when he played and gained valuable experience. He is now at least 12 months ahead of where we thought he would be.
Ryder is filling the role he was drafted for and in my opinion he is not a defender in the making anyway. He shows no natural instict for being a back man and simply relies on athletic ability and leap. He has not shown once as a defender that he is prepared to play an oponent close (ie body to body).

 

[Merv86]

I'm more of an occasional lurker than poster on this site but the criticism of Quinn leaves me mystified.

His dash from the backline reminds me more than a little of Tadgh Kennelly. The fact that he has played only a handful of AFL games in his life makes me think he could be something special. It amazes me that people on this site talk of Quinn as if he is a dud and a liability.

Whether he is best served learning the game at Bendigo or Essendon is an open question, but if the match committee think he can learn more playing seniors then that is fine by me. He will be more than handy... even whilst learning the game.

 

[Slattery_20]

Quinn shat himself completely overhead, and made a few other blunders in the Freo game
I would not like to see him play against Hawks or Geelong, would be targetted and found out, especially overhead
He was (on balance) better than alright against Freo, did nothing against North, and dropped. Who can complain about that?

I get the impression if he was from Longreach not Longford this thread would not exist

 

[Murph_S13]

Get your facts right !!!. Quinn had two games for Bendigo in a row where he was in the best three including one against Geelong at Kardinia Park in which Geelong fielded a full stregth seconds side that had 15 AFL listed players.

Secondly in the North game he did not give up two goals. He gave up none and kept Campbell to 4 possessions.
He has been dropped and rightly so this week but he has now had the experience and will be a better player for it.
In the two games he played he did not cost us a win.

• Two games for Bendigo that were PRACTICE GAMES! Even in the VFL, a practice game isn't a serious game for premiership points. Let's get serious here and stop listening to the leprechauns!
• Against North he may not have turned the ball over, but he DID overcommit due to inexperience on at least two occasions that provided North an avenue to goal. I know other players do it too, but he's played probably fewer than 10 games of Aussie Rules in his life.
• I DID NOT write that he cost Essendon a win. I wrote that he cost goals. That the final margin against North was two goals does not change what I wrote, and I wrote what I meant.

I'm not against the notion of Quinn playing per se, and he may well be 12 months ahead of expected schedule, but the point remains: were he not an Irish kid, he wouldn't have been played in the senior team with so little experience under his belt.

 

[yaco55]

• Two games for Bendigo that were PRACTICE GAMES! Even in the VFL, a practice game isn't a serious game for premiership points. Let's get serious here and stop listening to the leprechauns!
• Against North he may not have turned the ball over, but he DID overcommit due to inexperience on at least two occasions that provided North an avenue to goal. I know other players do it too, but he's played probably fewer than 10 games of Aussie Rules in his life.
• I DID NOT write that he cost Essendon a win. I wrote that he cost goals. That the final margin against North was two goals does not change what I wrote, and I wrote what I meant.

I'm not against the notion of Quinn playing per se, and he may well be 12 months ahead of expected schedule, but the point remains: were he not an Irish kid, he wouldn't have been played in the senior team with so little experience under his belt.

He wasn't played because he was Irish - he was played because he was the most ready of the six rookies on the lisy.