How much help do the swans need?

[Tuco]

Or he could sell his house in Melb & buy 2 in Adelaide hey????? This crap about Sydney is such a smoke screen. Yes the average house price in Sydney is higher than Melb but it is greatly inflated by the higher end properties. Melbourne doesn't have the harbour side homes worth millions but by the same token houses in the suburbs are not that different to here. There's nothing compelling Sydney players to live on Darling Harbour or somewhere with views of Manly beach. The other way to look at it is pretty simple...yes they may cost a bit more but they are also worth more so its relative. The overall difference is about 6-7% (not the 15% extra cap) anyway. Perhaps Geelong should get the least salary cap because houses are a fair bit cheaper there than in Melb. You can try to paint it any way you like but there's no doubt in mine & others minds that the extra cap for Brissy & Sydney were simply designed by the AFL to try to promote success for those clubs & increase the exposure for footy in non-footy states. It stands to reason that the cap was introduced to even up the competition so therefore paying above it would be an advantage. As a business plan it has worked brilliantly. No it didn't win you the flag, hard work & great coaching did that (plus the tribunal ) but it did assist your club in acquiring & maintianing your team.
Sydney talk about losing Rocca who was always going to end up at Collingwood no matter who drafted him but seem to forget about players like Wanganeen who left Essendon or Picket who left North or Carr & Stephens who left Port, White who left Freo & Brown left the Bullies. Players leave clubs every year for a variety of reasons so Sydney & Brisbane certainly aren't alone in having problems retaining players so why should they be the only ones given an advantage? Its all about the $$ & as much as I hate it the reality is that the AFL have continually compromised the integrity of the competetion in order to maximise its earning potential.

(sigh)

Cost of living is not just housing. It's everything. Absolutely EVERYTHING.

Here is the world's most comprehensive COL comparison. Made for travelling proffessionals so they know what they're in for. It bases its finding by measuring:

"...the comparative cost of over 200 items in each location, including housing, transport, food, clothing, household goods and entertainment."

As you will see:

Sydney rates 20th out of 144 cities with a rating of 95.2
Melbourne rates 67th out of 144 cities with a rating of 80

that places Sydney around 19% more expensive.

cheers.


http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving3.htm

 

[Annabelle]

This criticism of Sydney is a waste of time. They didn't even pay the extra this year. They can keep their list together because as everyone said before they won the flag, it is an average list full of honest toilers who are not stars and not on big salaries. It has nothing to do with the extra allowance which they didn't even use. And by the way, having lived in both cities for many years, there is no comparison. Everything is much more expensive in Sydney. Until you live there it is impossible to accept this. And regarding Everitt - he approached the Swans and Sydney was not going to pay him any more than Hawthorn, they were simply going to give him a longer time period. I hardly call this poaching.

 

[MarkT]

So are you saying they need it but didn't use and win a flag? If what you just said was 100%, and I have no reason to doubt it, then it proves categorically that Sydney don't need a CPI loading over Vic clubs any more than Vic clubs need one over SA clubs. Players simply don't take CPI into account.

The reality is Sydney will keep their list largely in tact because they are now well run and Paul Roos is someone who has and will continue to bring his players together and bind them tighter than any other coach in the AFL.

 

[Schneiderman]

This criticism of Sydney is a waste of time. They didn't even pay the extra this year. They can keep their list together because as everyone said before they won the flag, it is an average list full of honest toilers who are not stars and not on big salaries.

Spot on Annabelle.

Our "salary cap advantage" (which in real terms is worth nothing) has hardly made us capable of attracting a host of superstars. We have no Judd, Cousins, Ball, Reiwoldt, Voss, Akermanis, Black, Cooney, West... etc. We have attracted a total of TWO star players with offers of more money and opportunity so far: Lockett and Hall. And the latter was not exactly hot property at the time he came to us. Furthermore, we dont pay near the cap anyway, and haven't for years.

And for those complaining about our lack of NSW-men on our list (noting that we still have far more than any other team), be the first to support our requests to have priority access to them then! You cant have it both ways. We either get a COL allowance, our special access to local players so that they have no "go-home" influences forcing us to pay them more.

 

[bloodsports]

Ahh how the wihngers come out of the wood work.

Get some successes before you think you can mouth off.

 

[weevil]

So does the promotional allowance system need serious overhaul or is everyone happy with a system that allows players at clubs like Collingwood and Essendon to make more money than players at clubs like Sydney and Hawthorn???

 

[bloodsports]

If they AFL want $700 million for broadcast rights the Sydney Swans need all the help they can get to ensure they never fall outside of the top 8 and are always earning home finals and challenging for the flag. Nothing is more important for the security of AFLs financial future at $700 million. You might find there is more assistance and more rail-roading in future..

On ya little Di*K if ya can't beat them on head to head statistics like ratings or tv rights contracts, then why not try to attack them by making everyone in the oppossition think that thy are being screwed over?

just admit it, either Aussie Rules Football is a superior game or the AFL is a better run organisation than the NRL.

Either way, you lose!

Why don't you head back to Leauge unlimited and don't come back till you have some real ammunition?

Effectivly you have lost the debate you started here about a year and a half ago. congratulations.

 

[Barry Schneider]

Ahh how the wihngers come out of the wood work.

Get some successes before you think you can mouth off.

How long will it be before you start calling for Roos' and Colless' head?
I preferred you as a bitter and twisted St Kilda supporter than a gloating Sydney supporter.

 

[MarkT]

So does the promotional allowance system need serious overhaul or is everyone happy with a system that allows players at clubs like Collingwood and Essendon to make more money than players at clubs like Sydney and Hawthorn???

What do you base that assertion on? How much do you think Crawford makes outside of football? Do you think Barry Hall might earn a buck out of Sydney marketing opportunities?

Even if you were correct the bigger question of control of footballers earning capacity is a lot more debatable than you seem to suggest.

Regardless, I would be more than happy for the promotional allowance system that was originally brought in at North Melbourne’s request in order to accommodate Wayne Carey to be scrapped.

 

[Schneiderman]

Do you think Barry Hall might earn a buck out of Sydney marketing opportunities?

A buck is probably all he would earn. There are no promotional opportunities for AFL outside of Vic, SA and WA. Even Jono Brown only managed a $20,000 a year shoe promotion deal, whereas Collingwood offered him a $500k+ TV promotion deal. You cant get TV promo deals when there are no AFL-related TV shows in either Sydney or Brisbane.

 

[grayham]

Completely miss the point, don't you. The extra 600K is justified by Sydney saying they need the additional salary cap space to maintain their list due to cost of living, but here it is being used to attack another team's list by luring a player for financial reasons.
.

You miss the point. We need to offer Everitt 30% more than the hawks so he can enjoy the same lifestyle in Sydney as in Melbourne. Thereby taking money out of his decision. No player is going to move where it downgrads his lifestyle. Its just a pity we can only offer him 7% more.

 

[Zeke]

A buck is probably all he would earn. There are no promotional opportunities for AFL outside of Vic, SA and WA.

None at all. Are you sure?

Even Jono Brown only managed a $20,000 a year shoe promotion deal

Hang on... Didn't your last sentence just definitively say that there were no opportunities?

$400 per week to endorse a pair of shoes isn't too shabby.

 

[MarkT]

A buck is probably all he would earn. There are no promotional opportunities for AFL outside of Vic, SA and WA. Even Jono Brown only managed a $20,000 a year shoe promotion deal, whereas Collingwood offered him a $500k+ TV promotion deal. You cant get TV promo deals when there are no AFL-related TV shows in either Sydney or Brisbane.

Jason Akamanis does very well by his own admission. Alyster Lynch said as he negotiated his last contract that it would have to be worth his while because he made a good earn outside of his salary. Tell me Plugger didn’t do very well for himself. The clubs are limited as to what they can pay as promotional allowances so IMO it’s just a boost to every cap that is used if the club is stretched. Outside of that there are external opportunities and outside that there are other vocational ad professional opportunities. there is no doubt there are MORe opportunites in Mebourne than Sydney or Brisbane but there are 10 times the number of players competing for them as well. Meanwhile how much did Paul Kelley make from his property investment while he was a Sydney player?

 

[weevil]

Mal Michael has stated several times in the media that he received $1000 a week in “promotional allowance” money while at Collingwood.

This was despite the fact that he was a fringe player and never actually participated in any “promotional allowance” activities. The extra $1000 a week was a bonus for being a nondescript player on the Collingwood list and it was 100% outside of the salary cap.

He has not received any promotional allowance money in Brisbane despite being a star KPP in a three times premiership team.

Outside of a handful of people there are virtually no promotional opportunities for AFL players in Brisbane.

 

[Vandenbergfan]

Ahh how the wihngers come out of the wood work.

Get some successes before you think you can mouth off.

Always happy to compare trophy cabinets with the swines.

 

[Vandenbergfan]

And regarding Everitt - he approached the Swans and Sydney was not going to pay him any more than Hawthorn, they were simply going to give him a longer time period. I hardly call this poaching.

No, that isn't how it happened and not by a long way. The Swans with the retirement of Ball were desperate for a ruckman; via Hall (a friend and former teammate of Everitt) they start informal approaches to a contracted player which was then followed up in trade week. It is then reported in the media (by a not particularly respected journalist) that Everitt wants out of the Hawks and has chosen the Swans. A week previous Everitt had reiterated his loyalty to Hawthorn on 'White Line Fever' and had stated that he was happy with being involved in the rebuild that was occurring.

In most other sports if you attempt this type of approach on a contracted player you are heavily penalised financially. What compensation were the Swans prepared to offer Hawthorn as the holders of the contract if any deal were to occur - Jason Saddington most likely (a player the Swans have been attempting to trade for the last two years and will be delisted in a year's time).

Can't see how the approaches on Everitt it can be described as anything other then poaching. It has also made once and for all quite transparent that the salary cap advantage the Swans enjoy over the other clubs in the competition, is just that an unfair advantage.

 

[MarkT]

Mal Michael has stated several times in the media that he received $1000 a week in “promotional allowance” money while at Collingwood.

This was despite the fact that he was a fringe player and never actually participated in any “promotional allowance” activities. The extra $1000 a week was a bonus for being a nondescript player on the Collingwood list and it was 100% outside of the salary cap.

He has not received any promotional allowance money in Brisbane despite being a star KPP in a three times premiership team.

Outside of a handful of people there are virtually no promotional opportunities for AFL players in Brisbane.

Mal Michael went to Brisbane for more money so he kinda blows the whole relativity thing out of the water. Nevertheless, every club can use the promotional allowance and it becomes just an extension of the cap so as I said I’d be more than happy to see it go. Clubs can not pay money to players outside of the cap. Clubs may well cheat the rukes but that is another matter.

How many more than a handful of players get promotional opportunities at Melbourne clubs? Carlton are one of the big clubs. They have Fevola on TV but who else? Brisbane have Akamanis on TFS as well. How many Collingwood players do you actually think get TV gigs? Buckley is a TFS regular. Holland has done some work recently, mind you, on a rival network to his club's presidents and he may have to forgo finals in that show for a training camp. Who from Collingwood do you see in the media?

 

[bloodsports]

$400 per week to endorse a pair of shoes isn't too shabby.

Hahahahahahaha

You have just showen what a pleb you are Zeke.

 

[weevil]

Mal Michael went to Brisbane for more money so he kinda blows the whole relativity thing out of the water.

Mate I’m sorry but that is absolutely 100% not the case. Collingwood instigated the trade because they were so keen on Molloy (who wanted to go back to Melbourne). They haply offloaded Mal and a draft pick to get their hands on Jarrod. Mal had no idea he was going anywhere up until a few hours before the trade deadline.

Nevertheless, every club can use the promotional allowance and it becomes just an extension of the cap so as I said I’d be more than happy to see it go. Clubs can not pay money to players outside of the cap. Clubs may well cheat the rukes but that is another matter.

How many more than a handful of players get promotional opportunities at Melbourne clubs? Carlton are one of the big clubs. They have Fevola on TV but who else? Brisbane have Akamanis on TFS as well. How many Collingwood players do you actually think get TV gigs? Buckley is a TFS regular. Holland has done some work recently, mind you, on a rival network to his club's presidents and he may have to forgo finals in that show for a training camp. Who from Collingwood do you see in the media?

Like I said Mal did no promotional activities while at Collingwood but was still making a thousand bucks a week outside the cap. There is no way in hell he was alone in this; that was the base “promo” dollars for all Collingwood players. Frontline players make way more.

There is a massive, massive, massive amount more promo dollars for AFL in Melbourne than there is in Brisbane and Sydney. Eddie himself has stated many times that there players make bucket loads more money in Melbourne than they do in non football states. There is way more to the promo allowance than just TV.

 

[Tim_in_Philly]

No, that isn't how it happened and not by a long way. The Swans with the retirement of Ball were desperate for a ruckman; via Hall (a friend and former teammate of Everitt) they start informal approaches to a contracted player which was then followed up in trade week. It is then reported in the media (by a not particularly respected journalist) that Everitt wants out of the Hawks and has chosen the Swans. A week previous Everitt had reiterated his loyalty to Hawthorn on 'White Line Fever' and had stated that he was happy with being involved in the rebuild that was occurring.

In most other sports if you attempt this type of approach on a contracted player you are heavily penalised financially. What compensation were the Swans prepared to offer Hawthorn as the holders of the contract if any deal were to occur - Jason Saddington most likely (a player the Swans have been attempting to trade for the last two years and will be delisted in a year's time).

Can't see how the approaches on Everitt it can be described as anything other then poaching. It has also made once and for all quite transparent that the salary cap advantage the Swans enjoy over the other clubs in the competition, is just that an unfair advantage.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,16830631%5E20322,00.html

apology accepted

 

[Tas]

Median property value in Sydney - $550k
Median property value in Perth - $270k

A 2 for 1 sale perhaps? And then some change...

Source: http://www.commbank.com.au/propertyvalueguide/

The median prices take into account the properties in very high wealth areas, both Sydney and Melbourne have considerably larger high-wealth suburbs, which players are not going to be living in.

What should be looked at is the cost of living, Mercer's cost of living for 2005 has Sydney at 95.2, Melbourne at 80.0 and Brisbane at 74.9 (lower the better).

They didn't include Perth or Adelaide unfortunately. That put Sydney as the 20th most expensive city of the 144 world wide cities they compared. New York was the base of 100 and 13th most expensive. Melbourne and Brisbane were in the 80s somewhere.

 

[Bloods Rule!]

The median prices take into account the properties in very high wealth areas, both Sydney and Melbourne have considerably larger high-wealth suburbs, which players are not going to be living in.

What should be looked at is the cost of living, Mercer's cost of living for 2005 has Sydney at 95.2, Melbourne at 80.0 and Brisbane at 74.9 (lower the better).

They didn't include Perth or Adelaide unfortunately. That put Sydney as the 20th most expensive city of the 144 world wide cities they compared. New York was the base of 100 and 13th most expensive. Melbourne and Brisbane were in the 80s somewhere.

Over the past few weeks I've been in Perth and Melbourne (yea hah!) and I've been amazed at how cheap they are compared to Sydney. In Sydney I've driven into town for business and lunch and become immune to paying $40 for a few hours parking. But even meals and shopping seem a lot cheaper elsewhere. Live in Sydney and you just bleed money. Nice place to live but not cheap.

 

[MarkT]

Mate I’m sorry but that is absolutely 100% not the case. Collingwood instigated the trade because they were so keen on Molloy (who wanted to go back to Melbourne). They haply offloaded Mal and a draft pick to get their hands on Jarrod. Mal had no idea he was going anywhere up until a few hours before the trade deadline.

Mal Michael wanted a big pay rise and Brisbane gave it to him. Mal said prior to the trade he wanted to go to Brisbane. It was in the papers well before it happened. Everyone at Collingwood knew where he wanted to go. At the time he publicly said he wanted to go “home”. He may well have got confirmation just before it was official but that is almost always the case.

Like I said Mal did no promotional activities while at Collingwood but was still making a thousand bucks a week outside the cap. There is no way in hell he was alone in this; that was the base “promo” dollars for all Collingwood players. Frontline players make way more.

How do you know it was outside the cap? Even so, what you are talking about is cheating. That is another matter entirely. You are saying he got money for nothing and using that as proof of promotional opportunities? There is no logic in that. You are using promotional opportunities for an argument that players earn more and your evidence is money paid that doesn’t actually have anything to do with promotional work or opportunities.

There is a massive, massive, massive amount more promo dollars for AFL in Melbourne than there is in Brisbane and Sydney. Eddie himself has stated many times that there players make bucket loads more money in Melbourne than they do in non football states. There is way more to the promo allowance than just TV.

Yes and there are 10 times the players plus money that goes to non Vic based players as well – eg Aka. What Eddie states is what suits his recruitment aims at the time. Casey sold Brown on property development opportunities. There are much more and better property development opportunities in Queensland.

 

[weevil]

Pies bungled trade, says Shaw
By Darren Cartwright
http://www.ntnews.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,16148218%5E23211,00.html
August 4, 2005

COLLINGWOOD great Tony Shaw said his former club made a big error in judgment when it traded Mal Michael and not Chris Tarrant in a deal that helped give the Brisbane Lions three flags.

In freely promoting Lions defender Michael as this year's All-Australian full-back, Shaw said the Magpies had the option of swapping Tarrant and not Michael for Jarrod Molloy at the end of 2000.

The 1990 premiership captain had both Michael and Tarrant under his tuition after they made their debuts in 1997 and 1998, respectively.

"They were thinking about trading either Mal or Chris Tarrant, and I just think they should have gone and traded Tarrant," Shaw said.

"I just thought Mal had a lot more to offer. He was more versatile and was more of a natural competitor."

Since being traded to the Lions, Michael has played in four Grand Finals, been a premiership player three times and may even add an All-Australian title to his resume this year.

Molloy played 49 games with the Pies in three seasons before retiring at the end of 2003...

Rising from the ruins
By Jake Niall
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/26/1059084255060.html
July 27 2003

...Paul Williams and Mal Michael, 26 and 22 respectively when Malthouse arrived, were to provide Collingwood with the trade bait that would deliver some seasoned bodies (James Clement, Brodie Holland, Jarrod Molloy among others) to support the kids and an extra draft pick or two...

Collingwood have pushed the “Pies couldn’t hold on to Mal because of money” after the fact in an attempt to cover their embarrassment at how badly the trade backfired on them.

This is opposed to their reaction at the time. They acted like the cat that got the cream, they were extremely happy with the result.

Top teen rejects Lions for Melbourne
Story By Dave Donaghy
http://www.aapracingandsports.com.au/sports/rsnewsart.asp?NID=70160
Saturday, 10 September 2005

...The loss of the concession will make it increasingly difficult for the Lions to attract top-flight players with earnings from off-field endorsements in Brisbane almost non-existent.

Lions defender Mal Michael spoke out about the issue earlier this season after he declared he didn't "make a cent" away from the club.

Michael said he earned $50,000 as a 21-year-old rookie list player with Collingwood but couldn't establish a profile in Queensland despite winning three flags.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to find links to a lot of this because (unsurprisingly) these stories never get a run in the Melbourne media.

Mal has stated the above (in greater detail, including the fact that the money was included in the promotional allowance and that he never actually did any promotion) several times in the media up here and Collingwood have never denied it. Brisbane have also published multiple press releases on the issue.

If any aspect of what he or the Lions had stated been untrue Collingwood would have been all over them. Guaranteed Eddie would have been going off his nut all over the Footy Show.

A 21-year-old rookie list player for a powerful Melbourne club can make a bonus 50k a year. Whereas a champion from a 3 times premiership winning club gets absolutely zero. The market for AFL players up here is microscopic.

Do Melbourne people ever hear anything about these issues? Has it *ever* been discussed properly on TFS??? ...Hmm it makes you wonder why doesn’t it...

 

[MarkT]

I paid a lot of attention to it all at the time because I didn’t want us to lose Mal. BEFORE he left HE said he wanted to go home to Brisbane. I distinctly recall this and thinking home would be PNG.

There are two issues you seem to be confusing. Clubs can pay players marketing allowances. That doesn’t depend on location or club profile. As I said earlier, it was actually instituted for North/Carey. Over and above that players have the opportunity to earn a living as property developers, investors, labourers or in the media. Media opportunities are more numerous in Melbourne than Brisbane. There are 10 times the players though.

If any aspect of what he or the Lions had stated been untrue Collingwood would have been all over them. Guaranteed Eddie would have been going off his nut all over the Footy Show.

late this season Eddie responded to a dig by Aka when he was on the panel by saying Collingwood wanted mal but he left for money Collingwood couldn't match. So yes you are right and yes he did.