How sweet it is...

[DaSawx]

Winderlich had already over taken Pev right before he sufferd his injury, another good pre-season and Winders could really take some big strides

 

[Crave]

Winderlich had already over taken Pev right before he sufferd his injury, another good pre-season and Winders could really take some big strides

If our midfield structure were to change in personnel, theres no reason why Peverill's role couldnt evolve into something that would benefit the team. I would LOVE to know what the heirachy think after his month of GREAT footy.

 

[Longy413]

I find it hard to believe that Jolley and Slattery have suddenly burst onto the scene and pushed Pev out of our best possible line up.

Pev isn't in our best side though and that makes him less valuable than Slattery and Jolley because Pev won't improve.

Slattery and Jolley can and most likely will. We have to make at least three list changes, at an absolute minimum. The strength of the draft dictates we will make more than that. And that puts Pev in the firing line.

Hang on, as much as I like these two particular individuals...Winders and Dempsey RIGHT NOW arent ready to fill that position. Sure, when theyre ready to step up in a season or 2..then it would be warranted to turn our list over, but at this VERY point in time including next season (which is what Im trying to get across here...) Pev is above them in my pecking order.

Winderlich is ahead of Pev IMO. Right now and next year aren't the only points of consideration when choosing who stays on our list. The future also takes consideration. If we have to removed 7-8 players from our list, Pev is more likely than Winderlich and Dempsey because they are going to be more valuable for the footy club going forward.

And there is no reason Dempsey, with a solid pre-season couldn't replace Pev next year.

Paul Thomas would have given us more this year than Dempsey, but in the end you have to delist players in order to get more young talent into the club.

Yeah, you keep saying....

I do, but you're welcome to believe what you want. It is possible to have respect for a bloke and at the same time beleive he is a trade option. I respect him for his work ethic and his ability to get the most out of himself. It's a simple case of the greater good above the individual.

If our midfield structure were to change in personnel, theres no reason why Peverill's role couldnt evolve into something that would benefit the team. I would LOVE to know what the heirachy think after his month of GREAT footy.

I suspect they also see him as a chance to move on. Pev's greatest asset was always his ability to take out an opposition player, his disposal has never been great and it still isn't.

Yet on Friday night, Jolley and Heff along with MJ on Buckley, were all given defensive jobs before him. Pev was asked to play a running/link style game, something that he was able to do effectively because Collingwood, like St Kilda and a couple others didn't have the ability to expose Pev's weaknesses. His lack of pace and ball skills, yet he still turned it over 5 times against the Pies and 7 times against St Kilda.

We actually have to rid our list of some players, and going forward Pev offers us very little unfortunately.

 

[Crave]

Pev isn't in our best side though and that makes him less valuable than Slattery and Jolley because Pev won't improve.

Slattery and Jolley can and most likely will. We have to make at least three list changes, at an absolute minimum. The strength of the draft dictates we will make more than that. And that puts Pev in the firing line.

I think he's good to go for another season at least whilst the kids continue to mature IMO


Winderlich is ahead of Pev IMO. Right now and next year aren't the only points of consideration when choosing who stays on our list. The future also takes consideration. If we have to removed 7-8 players from our list, Pev is more likely than Winderlich and Dempsey because they are going to be more valuable for the footy club going forward.

And there is no reason Dempsey, with a solid pre-season couldn't replace Pev next year.


Dempsey is only a slight frame of a kid, listed at 69kgs in fact...would have to add at least 8 to merely compete with other midfield types and challenge in the contests.

Paul Thomas would have given us more this year than Dempsey, but in the end you have to delist players in order to get more young talent into the club.




I do, but you're welcome to believe what you want. It is possible to have respect for a bloke and at the same time beleive he is a trade option. I respect him for his work ethic and his ability to get the most out of himself. It's a simple case of the greater good above the individual.




I suspect they also see him as a chance to move on. Pev's greatest asset was always his ability to take out an opposition player, his disposal has never been great and it still isn't.

Theres always room for a player that can take out an opposition player, and in the age of going after midfielders who possess all the ball getting abilities...there STILL needs to be those that can negate a dangerous opposing player. A player that can shut down his opponent, yet get possessions of his own is highly valuable in any contest.

Yet on Friday night, Jolley and Heff along with MJ on Buckley, were all given defensive jobs before him. Pev was asked to play a running/link style game, something that he was able to do effectively because Collingwood, like St Kilda and a couple others didn't have the ability to expose Pev's weaknesses. His lack of pace and ball skills, yet he still turned it over 5 times against the Pies and 7 times against St Kilda.

We actually have to rid our list of some players, and going forward Pev offers us very little unfortunately.

We're not going to make massive inroads next year that I can forsee...maybe challenge for a top 8 spot at best while in this transitional stage...palming Pev off isnt going to solve anything while the kids need time to mature physically and mentally. He has the battle scars and still gives it his all...Id much rather have that right now, than wait on a few kids to develop.

Not sure why it included my opinions inside your quote so excuse that one

 

[Longy413]

So if we aren't going to make in-roads next year, why not get rid of a bloke that has been dropped three times this season, played about four good games and doesn't have a weapon.

Pev doesn't shut down his opponents anymore, Slattery and Heff do that better.

He doesn't use the ball very well (he does find it), and he doesn't play within his limits. The amount of times he fails to give the ball to a player in a better position or the player with better foot skills is frustrating. Again, Winderlich, Dyson, Nash can do that sort of job better.

If we are going to be a top four side in the future, Pev (like Bolton) won't be in that side. Why tred water when we can make room for a youngster in the draft?

 

[go_the_bombers]

So if we aren't going to make in-roads next year, why not get rid of a bloke that has been dropped three times this season, played about four good games and doesn't have a weapon.

Pev doesn't shut down his opponents anymore, Slattery and Heff do that better.

He doesn't use the ball very well (he does find it), and he doesn't play within his limits. The amount of times he fails to give the ball to a player in a better position or the player with better foot skills is frustrating. Again, Winderlich, Dyson, Nash can do that sort of job better.

If we are going to be a top four side in the future, Pev (like Bolton) won't be in that side. Why tred water when we can make room for a youngster in the draft?[/QUOTE]

Well put Longy! Whats the Min number of players you have to delist each year?

 

[Longy413]

Well put Longy! Whats the Min number of players you have to delist each year?

Three, but we'd be wanting more than three picks in this draft. Plus a pick in the PSD.

 

[go_the_bombers]

Three, but we'd be wanting more than three picks in this draft. Plus a pick in the PSD.

Thanks for that Longy

 

[Crave]

So if we aren't going to make in-roads next year, why not get rid of a bloke that has been dropped three times this season, played about four good games and doesn't have a weapon.

Pev doesn't shut down his opponents anymore, Slattery and Heff do that better.

He doesn't use the ball very well (he does find it), and he doesn't play within his limits. The amount of times he fails to give the ball to a player in a better position or the player with better foot skills is frustrating. Again, Winderlich, Dyson, Nash can do that sort of job better.

If we are going to be a top four side in the future, Pev (like Bolton) won't be in that side. Why tred water when we can make room for a youngster in the draft?

Heff certainly doesnt shut down his opponents. What is HIS weapon...bringing the ball to ground and dishing it off at best? He played his best game on Friday night in almost 3-4 years. Hardly warrants any accolades against a guy who's put in an entire month of good hard football. Slattery has been dropped often enough also if that comes in to the equation.
If we're going to go the way of some prolific ball getters, there STILL needs to be that element of grunt in our side or we run the risk of becoming soft again, just like we did in 98. At our best around 95/96, we had the likes of Barnard and Young who not only could wrestle possession of the ball, but also physically intimidate the oppostion. If Solomon doesnt improve or at least match his best in the coming seasons...our physicaly strength will diminish without the likes of Peverill right now.

 

[Longy413]

I'm not sure Slattery has been dropped at all, I stand to be corrected but I'm pretty sure each time he has gone out of the side is because of injury.

Heff does minimise the effectiveness of his opponents, he is a brilliant tackler and he uses the ball better than Pev. Heff is one of the few midfielders we have that shows composure with the footy. He's not a high possession getter, never has been. But 15 disposals from Heff is better than 25 from Pev.

Pev doesn't play a physical style of footy, he runs to space to get the ball. I'm not really sure why you would bring that arguement to the table, because whilst Pev does have a strong body I've never seen him use it.

If you want to talk grunt, we still have the Johnsons, McVeigh and Slattery is not only physically strong but also likes to hurt the opposition. Watson is another strong body and we also drafted Lonergan to play that role in the future.

 

[Crave]

I'm not sure Slattery has been dropped at all, I stand to be corrected but I'm pretty sure each time he has gone out of the side is because of injury.

Heff does minimise the effectiveness of his opponents, he is a brilliant tackler and he uses the ball better than Pev. Heff is one of the few midfielders we have that shows composure with the footy. He's not a high possession getter, never has been. But 15 disposals from Heff is better than 25 from Pev.

Pev doesn't play a physical style of footy, he runs to space to get the ball. I'm not really sure why you would bring that arguement to the table, because whilst Pev does have a strong body I've never seen him use it.

If you want to talk grunt, we still have the Johnsons, McVeigh and Slattery is not only physically strong but also likes to hurt the opposition. Watson is another strong body and we also drafted Lonergan to play that role in the future.

If im not mistaken...he earnt the nickname 'the human glove' in his rookie year (01) shutting down big name players whilst Misiti was out for 9 games.

I agree wth the players you mention as strong able bodied players, but with Lonergan....the future is still a while away and Ive been consistently arguing that RIGHT NOW in our rebuilding phase....Pev should be retained to allow for the young kids to develop. They're all on the park right now, and we still sit at the bottom of the competition, so it couldnt do any worse in keeping him.

 

[Longy413]

If im not mistaken...he earnt the nickname 'the human glove' in his rookie year (01) shutting down big name players whilst Misiti was out for 9 games.

I think it was actually The Unit, and that was a long time ago. He doesn't do that anymore, he hasn't for three years.
And he didn't physically intimidate the opposition like the examples you used in Barnard and Young. He doesn't fit that role. A young bloke named Slattery does though.

I agree wth the players you mention as strong able bodied players, but with Lonergan....the future is still a while away and Ive been consistently arguing that RIGHT NOW in our rebuilding phase....Pev should be retained to allow for the young kids to develop. They're all on the park right now, and we still sit at the bottom of the competition, so it couldnt do any worse in keeping him.

And players need to make way for those that need to develop. Pev is one.

Your arguement contradicts itself. Part of rebuilding includes getting kids into the club and playing them. Part of the reason we are on the bottom of the ladder is because Pev isn't good enough to be an effective midfielder over a complete season.

How are we rebuilding if we are keeping a player on the list that has proven over three or so years that he is a sub-par footballer at the expense of getting another kid into the footy club and having him keep someone like Slattery out of the side?

And Lonergan is physically ready RIGHT NOW.

 

[go_the_bombers]

If im not mistaken...he earnt the nickname 'the human glove' in his rookie year (01) shutting down big name players whilst Misiti was out for 9 games.

I agree wth the players you mention as strong able bodied players, but with Lonergan....the future is still a while away and Ive been consistently arguing that RIGHT NOW in our rebuilding phase....Pev should be retained to allow for the young kids to develop. They're all on the park right now, and we still sit at the bottom of the competition, so it couldnt do any worse in keeping him.

The last couple of years he hasnt been able to shut down his opponent

 

[Crave]

The last couple of years he hasnt been able to shut down his opponent

I think that has already been mentioned several times, champ!

 

[go_the_bombers]

I think that has already been mentioned several times, champ!

Just makin sure you don't forget

 

[Crave]

I think it was actually The Unit, and that was a long time ago. He doesn't do that anymore, he hasn't for three years.
And he didn't physically intimidate the opposition like the examples you used in Barnard and Young. He doesn't fit that role. A young bloke named Slattery does though.



And players need to make way for those that need to develop. Pev is one.

Your arguement contradicts itself. Part of rebuilding includes getting kids into the club and playing them. Part of the reason we are on the bottom of the ladder is because Pev isn't good enough to be an effective midfielder over a complete season.

How are we rebuilding if we are keeping a player on the list that has proven over three or so years that he is a sub-par footballer at the expense of getting another kid into the footy club and having him keep someone like Slattery out of the side?

We have worse on our list that could go well before Peverill should be mentioned.

And by the way, my argument only contradicts itself to your argument...not mine.

And Lonergan is physically ready RIGHT NOW.

SO, Lonergan was playing on the weekend at Bendigo because.......not to mention hasnt returned yet either.

 

[Longy413]

SO, Lonergan was playing on the weekend at Bendigo because......

Because someone like Pev who doesn't actually improve those around him is keeping him out.

How does that rebuilding thing go again?

 

[Crave]

Because someone like Pev who doesn't actually improve those around him is keeping him out.

How does that rebuilding thing go again?

Well, it doesnt include turning over players at a rate of knots. We only need to look at Hawthorn and the Doggies as to where they ended up for extensive periods at a time due to getting rid of players prematurely. Rome wasnt built in one day.

We can argue this point till the cows come home. You think he'll move on, I dont. Simple as that! I think a player that has played 2 less games than Heffernan for example, yet averages more disposals and marks still has something to offer us for another season. How is that so hard to understand as opposed to what you think? Are you giving me anything to sway my opnion?? NO!
Am I giving you anything to sway yours? NO!

 

[Crave]

Because someone like Pev who doesn't actually improve those around him is keeping him out.

How does that rebuilding thing go again?

Well, he seems to be keeping him out, so the match committee obviously sees it differently to you, my friend.

 

[Longy413]

I'm not trying to sway your opinion, I'm just providing mine. I care very little whether people agree with me or not.

I'm also not making a prediction on whether or not he'll move on, I'm stating that in my opinion he is one player that could make way. IMO we should be moving looking to have five picks in the ND, one in the PSD and promote Jolley. That makes for seven delistings. Pev is uncontracted and others can play his role, that puts him in danger of being elsewhere next season.

The Heff example is also a poor one, my critisism of Pev is he doesn't shut down his opponent nor does he use the ball well. How many times he gets it compared to Heff is redundant because Heff uses it better and his man gets less of it.

Heff tackles, blocks and chases better than Pev. That was part of the reason we got him back.

Pev doesn't actually improve us as a side. He actually plays more like Brent Stanton these days as a running link man. If Pev is on the list next year and keeps the likes of Winderlich, Slattery and Lonergan from getting games, we are actually going backwards as a footy club. Because he doesn't use the ball well, he rarely kicks goals and he gets exploited for pace.

 

[Longy413]

Well, he seems to be keeping him out, so the match committee obviously sees it differently to you, my friend.

Didn't you want to rebuild?
Lonergan will be a better footballer than Pev, he's physically ready. He kicks goals, he tackles well, he works hard. He has everything that you suggested makes Pev valuable.

You want to rebuilt, yet you want to keep a bloke who has obvious flaws in his game and isn't going to improve.

It simply doesn't make sense.

We're a poor side because players like Mark Bolton and Pev are getting a game every week. We aren't going to improve until we can get quality young players to replace them.

 

[go_the_bombers]

Didn't you want to rebuild?
Lonergan will be a better footballer than Pev, he's physically ready. He kicks goals, he tackles well, he works hard. He has everything that you suggested makes Pev valuable.

You want to rebuilt, yet you want to keep a bloke who has obvious flaws in his game and isn't going to improve.

It simply doesn't make sense.

We're a poor side because players like Mark Bolton and Pev are getting a game every week. We aren't going to improve until we can get quality young players to replace them.

Hard to disagree with that Crave

 

[Crave]

Heffs also been dropped incidently. 3 matches he's missed through omission, so the same argument would apply to him whether he would be in our best 22.
I would imagine it would take one developed kid to push him out also.

 

[Crave]

Didn't you want to rebuild?
Lonergan will be a better footballer than Pev, he's physically ready. He kicks goals, he tackles well, he works hard. He has everything that you suggested makes Pev valuable.

You want to rebuilt, yet you want to keep a bloke who has obvious flaws in his game and isn't going to improve.

It simply doesn't make sense.

We're a poor side because players like Mark Bolton and Pev are getting a game every week. We aren't going to improve until we can get quality young players to replace them.[/QUOTE]

Ok, freeze that right there. Sure, he's physically ready...has a few games, perhaps gets beaten as he's learning...needs to be dropped back to gain touch n confidence again...you're going to need a player like Peverill who can slot straight in WHILST Lonergan develops and matures further.
Who did you have in mind as his replacement in that scenario?

Now, UNTIL we get those quality young players...which is measureable at this point, you dont think its common sense to retain a player that can STILL play footy and has the runs on the board experience-wise?

We retained many veterans in 93 whilst our baby bombers were developing. If I recall, we brought in Ezard, T Daniher and one other against Carlton in that loss by 2pts. Imagine if they'd have been delisted due to having Fletcher coming along so quickly. He wasnt available in that game, so we had to bring in a replacement quickly.

Peverill adds depth while we have to wait n see if these kids have what it takes.

 

[Longy413]

Ok, freeze that right there. Sure, he's physically ready...has a few games, perhaps gets beaten as he's learning...needs to be dropped back to gain touch n confidence again...you're going to need a player like Peverill who can slot straight in WHILST Lonergan develops and matures further.
Who did you have in mind as his replacement in that scenario?

Slattery, Dempsey, Jolley, Winderlich, Cole.

Monfries steps up to take more responsibility in the midfield.
If we draft Gibbs, who's spot does he take?