How will Crows shape up

[ok.crows]

Looking at possible placings-

Backline: Shirley, Bassett, Hart - this line is going to be stretched by a tall marking forward line. It is a bit of a weak link. I can't think of a reasonable means to bolster this line without compromising elsewhere.

Half back: Goodwin, Hewitt, Massie - would have been in trouble if Carey & Grant were peaking, but with Tredrea really the only really damaging CHF, this line could be OK. Apparently Massie has some work to do.

Centre: Stenglein, McLeod, Johnson - no problems here.

Half Forward: Perrie, Stevens, Burton - having trouble with the forward flanks here. Any suggestions? If Stevens can play CHF should be OK.

Forwards: Welsh, Fitzgerald, Smart - also having trouble with one forward pocket, need a crumbing forward but I am reluctant to opt for Bode. I've picked Smart as he is elusive and a difficult matchup.

Ruck: Clarke, Ricciuto, Edwards - picks itself.

Interchange: Gallagher, Bickley, Biglands, Crowell - with possible appearances from Marsh, McGregor, Bode, Johncock, Angwin and maybe even Schell - depending if any of them hit some form.

Other areas-

Goalkicking: perhaps Jarman coaching can straighten them up a bit.

Kick-ins: why not just go with the consensus and throw out the huddle?

Confidence: Crows have a run of 7 winnable games starting at round 11. If they can win a few early ones and string together a nice run here Crows might be in a position to build confidence & momentum for the run home.

Predictions for our 2002 season anybody?

 

[Damp Squarie]

I Predict

Im only willing to put my chock on the block and say 7th...at this stage.
Anything can happen

As for possible lineups....hmmm

Backline: Shirley appears as the weak link here;Id swap with Crowell if height was tested early
Half back: Goodwin, Hewitt, Bickley ..................> Miss Massie
Centre: Stenglein, McLeod, Johnson
Half Forward: Bienke, Stevens, Burton
Forwards: Welsh, Fitzgerald, Smart {Bode?}

Ruck: Clarke, Ricciuto, Edwards - picks itself.

Interchange: Perrie,Gallagher,Biglands,Bode

Emerg: Nelson,Massie,Schell - depending if any of them hit some form.

Other areas- Cool heads needed in the Coaches Box!!
Play the likes of Nelson, Angwin, Doughty and Massie on form, but dont chop and change.

Good Start- We havent had one yet; should win 4 of first 5.
Coupled with your 7.....

 

[Garth]

Hmm. Whatever happened to McGregor at CHB like he was at the start of last season? I thought he did pretty well, at least as well as Hewitt...
At the very least he is another tall option for the backline.

As for how we will go. I'd say pretty similar to this year, maybe a game more or less. Should make the finals though, and hopefully will do better than against Carlton this year.

Garth

 

[ant]

Pretty good summary there crows.ok

The backline as you said will be susceptible to a taller forward line but overall it should stand up, as long as the midfield can hold its own. I think Smart should play down back, maybe it's my memory but I can't remember the last time he was really effective up forward. Give him a role defensively and I think he will once again be an asset to the side.

I think either Bode or Ladhams should get that forward crumbing role. Due to injury and the side's form, Bode didn't get much of a chance this year, many people don't think he can play....we did use a first round pick on Matty so I reckon we should give him a decent run in the team and find out conclusively whether he's of any value.

It's very early on to be making predictions for 2002, though I'm reasonably confident, all things being equal, that with a better start, a positive gameplan, a good injury run and some improvement from the second-tier players/younger brigade, we can at least contend for a top 8 spot once more.

Here's hoping.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Hope is not a process

We need a process to the gameplan! - And I thought that Ayres showed last year that the huddle, the cool defence, does work well enough to get the ball in there but weve gotta have a target up forward.

Im a bit with you though on Smart; hence my

Forwards: Welsh, Fitzgerald, Smart {Bode?}

The enigmatic SMART....hmmm!

It would be nice if he could have a rip roarer of a season - a bit like the veteran Bickley. Theyve both been great adversaries for the club and this year is the year where they can show the younger men whats required.

Give them a vision of -top four playoffs

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Pretty difficult to pick the starting line-up, but much will depend on the opponent, weather conditions, etc. My line up would be something along the following lines & granted is pretty similar to what has been mentioned:

FB: Shirley - Bassett - Hart
HB: Massie - Hewitt - Bickley
C: Burton - Johnson - Stenglein
HF: Riccuito - Stevens - Welsh
FF: Perrie - Fitzgerald - Edwards
R: Clarke - Goodwin - McLeod
I: Biglands - Smart - Beinke - Gallagher
E: Angwin - Johncock - Bode

A few points worth mentioning:

1. topjars - Shirley never really let us down last year. I like his determined style (in the mould of Bickley) to tag a good opposition player. Hopefully he do a few skills sessions with Jars & improve his skill level.

2. ok.crows - you make a fair point about being stretched by a really tall opposition forward. I think either Hewitt could take the tall & Hart/Massie are capable of playing CHF. Alternatively, Biglands could be developed to play a Pitman like defensive role.

3. Garth - no way in hell McGregor should start @ CHB - if you saw him being cut up by the likes of Chris Grant, you may wish to change your opinion. Once Hewitt was given confidence by the coaching staff to play CHB, he never let us down on the likes of Big Red. McGregor may have great hands, but falls over too much to play CHB (or CHF) - hence I call him "humpty dumpty". Not convinced this kid is good enough, but could possibly play FF if Fitzy has injury problems, as he can lead, mark & kick a good goal.

4. I would prefer to see our key midfielders (ie. McLeod, Roo, Goody, Edwards, Johnson & Birdman) rotating through the forward line & not the backline, as we also need them to contribute goals in 2002. We have the negating types (ie. Shirley, Bickley, Stenglein & Nelson) who should be playing back or taking a run-with role.

5. We should blood a couple of youngsters next year in Johncock & Angwin. Johncock should be developed into the pacy backman we have been missing (without sending Edwards back) & Angwin could be another Ottens should he stay incident free.

6. Smart is a bit of an enigma. If he is to start, I agree with Ant that he must start back, as he rarely plays well starting as a forward. If he is to play a full game, I believe he must be given a key opposition player (eg. Kouta), as he goes missing on lesser-name players. I would play him off the bench, as a burst type player & he can be thrown forward during a game if we are struggling for goals.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Pretty difficult to pick the starting line-up, but much will depend on the opponent, weather conditions, etc. My line up would be something along the following lines & granted is pretty similar to what has been mentioned:

FB: Shirley - Bassett - Hart
HB: Massie - Hewitt - Bickley
C: Burton - Johnson - Stenglein
HF: Riccuito - Stevens - Welsh
FF: Perrie - Fitzgerald - Edwards
R: Clarke - Goodwin - McLeod
I: Biglands - Smart - Beinke - Gallagher
E: Angwin - Johncock - Bode

A few points worth mentioning:

1. topjars - Shirley never really let us down last year. I like his determined style (in the mould of Bickley) to tag a good opposition player. Hopefully he do a few skills sessions with Jars & improve his skill level.

2. ok.crows - you make a fair point about being stretched by a really tall opposition forward. I think either Hewitt could take the tall & Hart/Massie are capable of playing CHF. Alternatively, Biglands could be developed to play a Pitman like defensive role.

3. Garth - no way in hell McGregor should start @ CHB - if you saw him being cut up by the likes of Chris Grant, you may wish to change your opinion. Once Hewitt was given confidence by the coaching staff to play CHB, he never let us down on the likes of Big Red. McGregor may have great hands, but falls over too much to play CHB (or CHF) - hence I call him "humpty dumpty". Not convinced this kid is good enough, but could possibly play FF if Fitzy has injury problems, as he can lead, mark & kick a good goal.

4. I would prefer to see our key midfielders (ie. McLeod, Roo, Goody, Edwards, Johnson & Birdman) rotating through the forward line & not the backline, as we also need them to contribute goals in 2002. We have the negating types (ie. Shirley, Bickley, Stenglein & Nelson) who should be playing back or taking a run-with role.

5. We should blood a couple of youngsters next year in Johncock & Angwin. Johncock should be developed into the pacy backman we have been missing (without sending Edwards back) & Angwin could be another Ottens should he stay incident free.

6. Smart is a bit of an enigma. If he is to start, I agree with Ant that he must start back, as he rarely plays well starting as a forward. If he is to play a full game, I believe he must be given a key opposition player (eg. Kouta), as he goes missing on lesser-name players. I would play him off the bench, as a burst type player & he can be thrown forward during a game if we are struggling for goals.

re Shirley -No, I agree with you ( hence Crowell if tall was needed}

Hart a CHF, theres a novel thougt!

Why cant Crowell be the pacy backman we've been missing

 

[ok.crows]

Personally, I'm hoping for another slow & steady improvement from Shirley this year, and given that Bickley is getting on, I can see a back pocket rotation happening between these two similar to Bickley & Johnson this year.

I'm hoping that Johnson won't need rotation this year, he seems to have improved in terms of not needing to protect him as much from injury.

Crows need a good consistent year from Burton. They haven't really got value from this player yet - he has the ability to be an important player, even a matchwinner sometimes - yet Crows only seem to get a handful of such games out of him each year. A few more like that please Mr Burton.

I am more than hopeful that Crows will get a better return from Roo next year than this.

I also hope that Stevens can play the whole year at CHF - he was very productive when he went there and it made a great deal of difference. Crows actually started to win games by respectable margins with hime there.

Maybe Crows can get something out of the likes of Bode, Angwin, Johncock and others, there is certainly that potential. Bonus if we do.

Thinking about it, I agree, Crowell is a candidate to bolster the defense height when we come up against one of those tall teams.

And finally, to correct myself, Brown of Brisbane is another CHF who threatens our backline.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

topjars - you picked me up on a typo, as you can probably gather I meant to say that Hart & Massie were capable of holding down CHB given the right opponent. However, Benny has kicked a few crucial goals in his time, & perhaps could be swung up forward if we are struggling for goals (but I wouldn't make it a regular thing, as he is one of the most under-rated defenders in the business).

Also, agree with you about using Crowell as a tall back pocket type, because he is a great athelete for his size. I think his main problem in 2001 was that he was used as a spare parts player. The coaching staff need to settle him down in the 1 role in 2002.

ok.crows - Birdman is crucial to us. He is one of our few genuine match winners, as the guy can do anything. His goal against Richmond @ the G where he ran from the backlines was a magical passage of play. The checkside from 50m+ against the Roos wasn't a bad effort either. Now that Jars has retired, both him & McLeod would have to be the players I enjoy watching most live.

Also, Stevo must play CHF all year if we are to make the 8, because in addition to playing well himself, he brings the other forwards (eg. Perrie) into the game. Another very under-rated player.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Hart

Hart has always been my favourite.
Jarman and Bickley not far behind him.

This player will keep on keeping on. Time and again we've seen him get to a contest negating attacks with good reading of the ball; and then setting up down field.

BIG BEN is not only shrewd but a rated player who has beaten the best of 'em. He'd be hard to replace in the Back half.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Topjars - I'm also a big fan of Hart. I still believe his most valuable game was in the 1st half of the '98 grand final when he kept us in the game when the Kangaroos were pumping the ball continously into their forward line. I lost count the number of times he beat Sholl one on one. He was my selection for BOG, as the game would of been out of our reach at half time if it wasn't for his efforts.

 

[Jars458]

F: Welsh Schell Perrie
HF: Edwards Fitzgerald Burton
C: Johnson Ricciutio Gallagher
HB Smart Stevens Goodwin
b Hart Bassett Bickley

Ruck: Clarke Stenglein McLeod

I/C: Biglands Johncock Massie Hewitt

others: Bode Ladhams Angwin Crowell


I think Stevens is best at Centre Half Back and though he was great forward for us I think that's why Fitzy has been recruited

In a perfect world Schell will develop after casting aside the losing mentality at Fremantle. If not through Perrie to full forward and Bode or Ladhams into a pocket.

Although Smart can start the year I think Massie is a ready made replacement

Gallagher did enough to get a go on the wing I think

I really like Burton up forward as he causes huge headches to get someone good enough to run with him, beat him in the air and be fit enough

If Brett gets a full pre-season he will be our secret weapon

I don't rate Shirley at AFL level even though I am an Eagles supporter - he is too slow and his disposal is poor and does not penetrate.

McLeod will have his best year yet and win the Brownlow

All our key players are in the prime of their careers and we SHOULD improve again.

My tip is 5th -7th depending on injuries.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Macca and Burton

Geez I hope your right about McLeod.
Burton has been inconsistent eh; but IF he can stay fit he will be a secret weapon that will hold a good matchup.

How will Bode go?
What I did see last year I liked. James Gallagher has proven to him that you dont have tobe tall to cement your spot.
I hope HE also stays injury free.

One injury with such few options can really flick you up

 

[ok.crows]

Jars458, you are right in that Stevens does a good job at CHB. He also did an excellent job at CHF, in fact as good a job as any other CHF in the league.

Crows have at least one other option at CHB - Hewitt did quite OK there. And when Hewitt was at CHB, and Stevens was at CHF, Crows produced their only really decent wins (in terms of large margins) of this year.

We didn't do nearly as well when Hewitt was at CHF and Stevens was at CHB.

Because we have alternatives for CHB but not CHF, which has always been a problem for Crows, and because Stevens was a godsend solution there, this indicates to me that Crows should try their very hardest to keep Stevens at CHF. In my view this is on of the few really critical placings we have.

Also in my view Schell has a long way to go yet to make the team. He may prove this view to be entirely unjustified but at the moment I'f rather see McGregor or Hewitt on the ground rather than Schell.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

OK.Crows - I completely agree with your theory on Stevens. Whilst he is clearly our best CHB, he is really our only decent option @ CHF (& Hewitt can more than adequately cover CHB). As I have stated before, it is no coincidence the Crows played their best brand of footy when Stevo moved up forward, as he also brings others into the game. I would go as far as saying, I reckon the Crows can only make the eight if Stevo plays CHF for most of 2002.

I also agree that Schell is not yet AFL standard. As FF options I would prefer Fitzgerald, Angwin, Beinke, Welsh, Marsh & even McGreggor (& that is saying something).

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You can probably tell I was a little bored, so I thought I would go over the possible starting line-up for 2002. What I have attempted to do is determine the side based on the thoughts of all those below who have posted to this topic. The side would look something like as follows:

FB: Shirley (2/0), Bassett (4), Hart (4)
HB: Goodwin (3/1), Hewitt (3/1), Bickley (2/2)
C: Stenglein (3/1), McLeod (2/2), Johnson (3/1)
HF: Perrie (1/3), Stevens (3/1), Burton (3/1)
FF: Welsh (3/1), Fitzgerald (3/1), Smart (2/2)
R: Clarke (4/0), Riccuito (2/2), Edwards (2/2)
I (from): Massie (1/2), Crowell (1/1), Beinke (1/1), Schell (0/1), Biglands (4/0), Gallagher (3/1), Bode (1/0), Johncock (1/0)

The brackets indicate how many of us named the player in that set position & in another position(s). eg. Stevens (3/1) - 3 of us named him @ CHF, whilst 1 of us, Jars458, named him elsewhere @ CHF. Other Crows supporters please feel free to add your starting line-ups to add more weight to the analysis.

Analysis: No suprise that we all agree on the positioning of Bassett, Hart & Clarke. McLeod, Riccuito, Edwards, Stenglein, Johnson, Burton, Goodwin & Bickley we all couldn't agree a 'set' position as they will be rotating through the midfield, forward & back flanks - much will depend on opposition match-ups. Shirley would appear to be competing with the likes of Massie, Crowell & even Johncock for his place. Most of us agree that Welsh, Burton & Perrie should spend most of their time on the forward flanks, but what about Smart's forward pocket - he is likely to be competing with the like of Beinke, Bode & Schell. In fact where should Smart be playing next year?

Overall the team look pretty good in my biased opinion!

Teams used:

ok.crows
FB: Shirley, Bassett, Hart
HB: Goodwin, Hewitt, Massie
C: Stenglein, McLeod, Johnson
HF: Perrie, Stevens, Burton
FF: Welsh, Fitzgerald, Smart
R: Clarke, Ricciuto, Edwards
I: Gallagher, Bickley, Biglands, Crowell
E: Marsh, McGregor, Bode, Johncock, Angwin, Schell

topjars
FB: Crowell, Bassett, Hart
HB: Goodwin, Hewitt, Bickley
C: Stenglein, McLeod, Johnson
HF: Bienke, Stevens, Burton
FF: Welsh, Fitzgerald, Smart
R: Clarke, Ricciuto, Edwards
I: Perrie,Gallagher,Biglands,Bode
E: Nelson,Massie,Schell

Kane McGoodwin
FB: Shirley, Bassett, Hart
HB: Massie, Hewitt, Bickley
C: Burton, Johnson, Stenglein
HF: Riccuito, Stevens, Welsh
FF: Perrie, Fitzgerald, Edwards
R: Clarke, Goodwin, McLeod
I: Biglands, Smart, Beinke, Gallagher
E: Angwin, Johncock, Bode

Jars458
FB: Hart, Bassett, Bickley
HB Smart, Stevens, Goodwin
C: Johnson, Ricciutio, Gallagher
HF: Edwards, Fitzgerald, Burton
F: Welsh, Schell, Perrie
R: Clarke, Stenglein, McLeod
I: Biglands, Johncock, Massie, Hewitt
E: Bode Ladhams Angwin Crowell

 

[Jerome]

F Ladhams, Fitzgerald, Perrie
HF Edwards, Stevens, Gallagher
C Burton, Ricciuto, Johnson
HB Stenglien, Hewitt, Smart
B Bickley, Bassett, Hart
R Clarke, McLeod, Goodwin
Int Marsh, Massie, Welsh, Shirley or Johncock

I'd always start with Smart in defence - the Smart/Hart team works very well. However, I'd never play them in the key positions. The side is still fairly flexible, I'd leave Ladhams as our main crumbing forward and give Gallager and Edwards spells at half forward and on the ball, changing with Bickley, Welsh, McLeod etc. Welsh had better do something this year too.

Jerome

 

[Damp Squarie]

Apart from Welsh Id like to see Ben Marsh extract the finger!!
Needs to be a bit harder I reckon.
Hes the type of bloke who will probably end up going to another club and then burn us (with his better performances) in the process

Beinke doesnt seem too favourable with you all.
I hope he gets a good run this year. Still think he is a good option up forward with his telescopic arms.

Goalscorers are the key to not only our chances but also a settled lineup.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by topjars
Apart from Welsh Id like to see Ben Marsh extract the finger!!
Needs to be a bit harder I reckon.
Hes the type of bloke who will probably end up going to another club and then burn us (with his better performances) in the process

Beinke doesnt seem too favourable with you all.
I hope he gets a good run this year. Still think he is a good option up forward with his telescopic arms.

Goalscorers are the key to not only our chances but also a settled lineup.

I agree, Marsh really does need to shine this year. As for Beinke, he really has'nt been given a fair go. If Welsh is still only managing 1 or 2 goals a game by Round 4 (Welsh very rarely gets 3-5 goals a match), bring in Beinke.

Jerome

 

[Damp Squarie]

Gee; by round 4 we should be 3 zip

Catch the dogs nappin at Colonial - A happy hunting ground for Adelaide;in a do or die first up game {If Ayres hasnt got the Crows ready to run through brickwalls Ill be p!ssed!) =1

Topple the Cats in a low scoring night game at the Park =2

Hammer a lethargic Sydney who have got thier frequent flyer points up and two consecutive hammerings. =3

Geez I cant wait.... Go Crows

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Jerome / Topjars - totally agree that Marsh is the Crow who really needs to pull his finger out. Has the ability, but seems a mentally piss weak. Someone should give him angry pills before the game.

Reckon you guys are a little tough on Welshy though, as he was being played out of position & on/off the bench for much of 2001. He looked much better later in the year when he played as half-forward who floated further up the ground. He should rarely be used at FF.

Also, completely agree with Beinke. He never really seems to let us down & kicked some critical goals for us this year when we really needed them (eg. vs Freo @ FP). But he seems the first player benched or dropped when thing are not going well. Also, Beinke could be used @ FF depending on the opposition. Both Welsh & Beinke should get more 2002 game time with no Jars & Vardy.

PS Topjars - wouldn't get too excited about the doggies in Round 1, as we have an ordinary home & away record against them (particularly in round 1). I saw 1st hand the belting they handed us @ Colonial in 1999 (when Jars was a late withdrawal). Finals is a another matter though!

 

[Damp Squarie]

Yeah I know... they seem to like playing us eh
BUT,it would be good......We must break the hoodoo sooner or later.
Maybe Chris Grant will break a leg in the trial game(sic
I seen him cream us last year at footy park; he has a lot of CHF savvy. I think it was Smart who finally shackled him but by then the horse had bolted.
Ayres ought to be firin' up Smart about this impending battle. As we've stated on earlier threads>>Smarty likes to be given THE job on some key opposition players.

How do you rate Smart out of 10?
Will he have a big final last year?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

TopJars - If Grant plays CHF, I would probably give Hewitt 1st crack at him, with a view to moving Smart on to him if Grant starts to fire-up. I would prefer Smarty starting off the HB flank to double-team Grant where necessary. The other guy from the Bullies who always seems to play well against us is Croft.

I agree Smart needs to be given a challenge though, otherwise his mind is likely to go walkabouts in the himilayas somewhere. I find it hard to rate him out of 10. At his best, he can be unbelievable, providing us with so much run from the backline (remember how opposition coaches used to tag him in the backline). But he has become less consistent with poor performances becoming more frequent. Let's hope his mind is on the job in 2002, as he can still be a damaging player. I reckon he should be used off the bench &/or given a run up forward more, if he is having a poor game,