Food, Drink & Dining Out I regularly defend Perth, but ???????

[Contra Mundum]

It's certainly not a bad place for older people and those who like to turn in early... And it does have nice weather for 6 or so months ...

It also has rules for everything and a sterility that would make most hospitals proud.

It's a soulless over-regulated expensive suburban hell but yes, there are some decent places to eat out, a couple of decent pubs and it's sunny ... And your dad lives here ... Can't expect more than that from a city of 2 million people ...

I think the suburban thing has an upside - people tend to get up to debauchery in the confines of their own homes. People seem to have more dinner party socialising in Perth but if you want to sit in an interesting bar with your mates and talk shit on a night on the piss- options are limited.

I went to a wedding in Peppy Grove recently (made a mistake being a Plaintiff lawyer) it was great to be at a place where everyone knows you - a thing I used to hate and one of the reasons I left

I confess I am pushing fifty!

 

[Silent Alarm]

My suspect practices in seedy bars and side streets?

Perth IS a place of dull suburbia. It just is. I've lived there longer than you and I currently get the perfect contrast between it and more alive locations by coming there every month. Currently in Perth and it remains what it is. There isn't a sufficient mass of people who want to live outside the suburban fog to create the critical mass needed for a genuine urban lifestyle... There just isn't...

It's not about hedonism and seediness it's about an attitude and a lifestyle that interacts differently than Perths does. The reality is you can stick a cool bar in Perth and it's still a bit meh because (a) most people don't go and (b) the ones that do are very cliche about it - look I'm a hipster, look I'm young and hot, look I'm whatever .... by contrast stick an ordinary bar in some cities and it becomes "cool" simply because of the variety of people that go there ...

Perth is a suburban backwater in its attitude and you may well be different but in Perth that makes you an outrider not anything close to the norm. It's a conservative place for middle aged accountants or cashed up bogans comparing house sizes and the type of car they have... Which is obviously not true of all but that's the suffocating demeanor of it all ...

And as a result of this monolithic group mindset they take criticism pretty poorly and tend to tell those they disagree with to "**** off then" or that they must be seedy bastards engaging in suspect practices ....

A proper city lets people live, exactly the way they want to within some very basic guidelines for general order ...

Perth is run by a bunch of middle aged prudish housewives by comparison ... and they know what's best for us ...

Exactly this.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Exactly this.

Yeh the materialism is a bit much amongst the wrong people. I am just not interested in it anymore -anyway I don't know the names of any of the suburbs - Booragoon was new to me when I left

 

[nicky]

It's not about the bloody bar scene!

It has no heart, no soul and no substance. It's a lovely natural climate (if you don't mind cold mornings for several months). It's fine for those who buy into the suburban stereotype of born, school, job, marry, kids, die.... If you want the 4 bed house and the boring suburban life it's fine. Lots of people do. That said, it's now an expensive version of that lifestyle without any of the cultural benefits (in the broadest sense of that word) of a "real" city and it's isolated as hell. Which helps create the insular small minded attitude...

It's a decent place to raise kids if you are prepared to give up on your own interests in that period and it's a decent enough place to retire in. But even those two are now caveated by the fact that you need decent money to do those 2 things in Perth in comfort.

Its a city without heart that has 2 or 3 anaemic cultural hearts and a very rigid social structure. It doesn't cater for or to anyone who chooses to live outside the "norm".

It could be so much more but people here fear change. Badly. It's slagged off because many who live in it genuinely think it's a city. It's a bigger version of Bunbury - and viewed from that perspective it's decent enough.

But when compared with proper cities it comes up short and apparently saying that suggests some form of heresy ...

EDIT: I have a place in Subi and I spend a week or so each month there. I can have a decent time in Perth. But living in Perth is just a horrible thought. Visiting allows one to pick the good bits and avoid the rest. Living in Perth, especially out in the burbs requires a form of social lobotomy (or a strong will) to get by IMO...

I agree with this - it's not about the lack of bar scene but the fact it has no heart and soul. I lived in perth for a few months in my early twenties and have visited over half a dozen times. I've been underwhelmed by the restaurants and the general attitude of people, including my life long friends (conservative, narrow minded and a tad racist).

 

[JimDocker]

It's not about the bloody bar scene!

It has no heart, no soul and no substance. It's a lovely natural climate (if you don't mind cold mornings for several months). It's fine for those who buy into the suburban stereotype of born, school, job, marry, kids, die.... If you want the 4 bed house and the boring suburban life it's fine. Lots of people do. That said, it's now an expensive version of that lifestyle without any of the cultural benefits (in the broadest sense of that word) of a "real" city and it's isolated as hell. Which helps create the insular small minded attitude...

It's a decent place to raise kids if you are prepared to give up on your own interests in that period and it's a decent enough place to retire in. But even those two are now caveated by the fact that you need decent money to do those 2 things in Perth in comfort.

Its a city without heart that has 2 or 3 anaemic cultural hearts and a very rigid social structure. It doesn't cater for or to anyone who chooses to live outside the "norm".

It could be so much more but people here fear change. Badly. It's slagged off because many who live in it genuinely think it's a city. It's a bigger version of Bunbury - and viewed from that perspective it's decent enough.

But when compared with proper cities it comes up short and apparently saying that suggests some form of heresy ...

EDIT: I have a place in Subi and I spend a week or so each month there. I can have a decent time in Perth. But living in Perth is just a horrible thought. Visiting allows one to pick the good bits and avoid the rest. Living in Perth, especially out in the burbs requires a form of social lobotomy (or a strong will) to get by IMO...

The suspect practises comment was a bit low. My apologies.

As for your bolded bit, Most people do raise kids and good parents do give up their own interests for a while. That is a compromise that people make in their lives.

What does living outside the norm mean? I have many many friends who would be considered by many to be bohemians. They live essentially in suburbia but do not sit in every night watching ACA or TT.

Your hatred of suburbia is partly understood, but I think it is almost obsessive. I went and had dinner at my in laws last night. Chilli mussells, grilled fish, all the trimmings and quality wine with good conversation. I actually call that a good night. The night before, I stayed home and watched Game of Thrones on tele. Another good night .

Also, I do not sit in a small bar congratulating myself on my sophistication. I enjoy them as an alternative to pubs, which I actually enjoy. My love of Clancy's in Fremantle is well known.

I acknowledge Perth's problems. Indeed, I started the thread to point out an issue, but I think a glass half full person such as myself will look for positives whereas you look for negatives.

I imagine you in Paris complaining about the shops closing early instead of going to a cafe for a coffee and a croissant and walking to see the Eiffel Tower.

Nicky, I have no racist friends. The most conservative person that I would call a friend is Lach72 !!!! You need new friends

 

[JimDocker]

Anyway, I am knocking off for the day now.

Gonna head to Mt Lawley for a quick catch up and a beer with a mate, then home to take my son to his swimming lessons. Staying home tonight because my wife is going to the Perth Comedy Festival and we are out of external babysitting credits.

 

[FootyJunkie]

From Perth originally, left when I was 7 and lived in Melbourne and the U.S. Did not go back to visit Perth until I was 22 and have gone back to visit a further 3 times.

I love Perth, but I must admit a lot has to do with nostalgia... passing through my old neighborhood makes me feel like 5 years old every time. Love the beach and peacefulness and I find the isolated tag to be exotic.

I think young people from Perth really have to leave early and live elsewhere for a substantial amount of time to really appreciate the city when they do go back. I think living and growing up in Perth during one's formative years will generate some of the negative comments that have been thrown out in this thread. In a nut shell, Perth isn't for young people.

One gripe is obviously how expensive it is there now, with the resource boom and miners flying out west and the city growing like a beast, its like its giving the impression that people are walking over eachother to move there.... yet folks on the eastern seaboard have not changed their impressions of Perth that it is too far away to be considered relevant to them.

Been to Perth every other year since 2004, so I'm due this year... doubt I'll make it this time though.

Would love to end up there in my twilight years, making it all come full circle.... but not right now.

 

[Papa G]

Anyway, I am knocking off for the day now.

Gonna head to Mt Lawley for a quick catch up and a beer with a mate, then home to take my son to his swimming lessons. Staying home tonight because my wife is going to the Perth Comedy Festival and we are out of external babysitting credits.

So from Eagle87's description your night will look something like this?

 

[Contra Mundum]

From Perth originally, left when I was 7 and lived in Melbourne and the U.S. Did not go back to visit Perth until I was 22 and have gone back to visit a further 3 times.

I love Perth, but I must admit a lot has to do with nostalgia... passing through my old neighborhood makes me feel like 5 years old every time. Love the beach and peacefulness and I find the isolated tag to be exotic.

I think young people from Perth really have to leave early and live elsewhere for a substantial amount of time to really appreciate the city when they do go back. I think living and growing up in Perth during one's formative years will generate some of the negative comments that have been thrown out in this thread. In a nut shell, Perth isn't for young people.

One gripe is obviously how expensive it is there now, with the resource boom and miners flying out west and the city growing like a beast, its like its giving the impression that people are walking over eachother to move there.... yet folks on the eastern seaboard have not changed their impressions of Perth that it is too far away to be considered relevant to them.

Been to Perth every other year since 2004, so I'm due this year... doubt I'll make it this time though.

Would love to end up there in my twilight years, making it all come full circle.... but not right now.

South Perth has been totally destroyed - all those beautiful fifties houses with nice gardens and quarter acre blocks. Now you have the tuscan villa, next to a tudor mansion, next to a wedding cake monstrosity all with temples in which to house the expensive car. It's sad - the idea of "streetscape amenity" is lost on the criminals they have in the Council there

 

[Scotland]

Nah, Perth's just a conservative state ten years in the past.

Perth's a city, not a state, and you've barely spent more than 5 minutes here.

We won't have a decent stadium for 15 years, and we won't have any cultural attractions for 20. I'm leaving the place because it's a waste of my young adult life: Paying $10 for a pint and going to average clubs and pubs doesn't make for a great lifestyle.

You're leaving the place because you're a run of the mill 'hip' teenager who thinks they are too cool for school and wants to live in Melbourne or London or wherever the latest trendy location of the day is because 'it's really more me' rolleyes.

Inevitably your type always return after 'finding yourself' in whichever cliched 'real city' you've based yourself in with an even greater sense of self importance but in reality generally less open minded and cultured than the locals you talked down to. Yawn.

RE: Perth, the problem isn't that it's shit. The problem is that it reaches about 10% of its potential.

We have weather that most cities in Europe would dream of. We have a coastline littered with sandy beaches that most people in the World would have to fly to on their yearly holiday to see. We have a (relatively) clean river running through the city. We have industry attracting people to work here. We are right on Asia's doorstep (think travel in/out, import/export etc.).

What do we do with it? Not much. Again, the problems aren't so much specifically that that the airport is shit or there aren't enough pubs or the shops aren't open after sunset etc. but that trying to do anything to change any of these things is astronomically more difficult than it should be. Resistance to change from the general population + excessive regulation is a poor combination and one that is hard to influence.

Buggered if I'd open a restaurant or bar any time soon, the number of hoops you have to jump through are a joke - assuming you're actually allowed to proceed. I'm hesitant about putting up a new carport out the front of my house - day or two worth of 6 but months on end dealing with the council to do so.

 

[Silent Alarm]

You're leaving the place because you're a run of the mill 'hip' teenager who thinks they are too cool for school and wants to live in Melbourne or London or wherever the latest trendy location of the day is because 'it's really more me' rolleyes.

Inevitably your type always return after 'finding yourself' in whichever cliched 'real city' you've based yourself in with an even greater sense of self importance but in reality generally less open minded and cultured than the locals you talked down to. Yawn.

Spoken like a true Perth-ite.

My uncle moved to Melbourne in his early twenties, after spending his life in south Perth and Fremantle. Has lived there ever since. Over 15 of his friends from his 20s still live in inner Melbourne as well. So I guess "my type" actually stay there sometimes...

Also, hating people for being hip (and I'm not a hipster) or into culture is kind of... lame. How can you resent someone for wanting to live somewhere new and experience something different? Who wants to live their entire life in one city? Especially a city so culturally bland as Perth.

 

[The_Reaper]

I for one can honestly say that I hope to live my whole life in Perth.

 

[Scotland]

Spoken like a true Perth-ite.

Again, you've spent 5 minutes in Perth so you don't really know shit from clay when it comes to 'true Perth-ites', among other things.

My uncle moved to Melbourne in his early twenties, after spending his life in south Perth and Fremantle. Has lived there ever since. Over 15 of his friends from his 20s still live in inner Melbourne as well. So I guess "my type" actually stay there sometimes...

Good for him. Plenty of people move between cities...

Also, hating people for being hip (and I'm not a hipster) or into culture is kind of... lame. How can you resent someone for wanting to live somewhere new and experience something different? Who wants to live their entire life in one city? Especially a city so culturally bland as Perth.

18 year olds who say they are 'into' culture tend to be insufferable w***ers who are into surrounding themselves with other insufferable w***ers so that they can act like pretentious twats together.

Once again, you have no idea. Your average bogan that's been to Bali and done a 2 week Contiki tour of Western Europe has more to offer a cultural debate than you do.

I don't resent anyone for wanting to move cities, visit new places, experience new cultures etc. but I don't rate the opinion of an 18 year old (from Albany) who thinks Perth is 'culturally bland' and a 'waste of his young adult life'.

 

[Eagle87]

The suspect practises comment was a bit low. My apologies.

As for your bolded bit, Most people do raise kids and good parents do give up their own interests for a while. That is a compromise that people make in their lives.

In Perth it's a bigger sacrifice than elsewhere...

What does living outside the norm mean? I have many many friends who would be considered by many to be bohemians. They live essentially in suburbia but do not sit in every night watching ACA or TT.

It probably means living ... As opposed to what most in Perth do ...

Your hatred of suburbia is partly understood, but I think it is almost obsessive. I went and had dinner at my in laws last night. Chilli mussells, grilled fish, all the trimmings and quality wine with good conversation. I actually call that a good night. The night before, I stayed home and watched Game of Thrones on tele. Another good night .

It's not hatred. It's also not obsessive. It's, similar to what Scotland opines, just the gap between potential and possibility.

You love terms like "quality" and "all the trimmings" and even "good conversation", I had all the same last evening latest night with relatives - but so what? We should have been able to go somewhere instead of camping out in the mansion, but it's Perth, so we didn't - and good on conversation is problematic in a place full of small minded, conservatives with a limited world view .... Perhaps you just "fit" that group better...

Also, I do not sit in a small bar congratulating myself on my sophistication. I enjoy them as an alternative to pubs, which I actually enjoy. My love of Clancy's in Fremantle is well known.

And?

I acknowledge Perth's problems. Indeed, I started the thread to point out an issue, but I think a glass half full person such as myself will look for positives whereas you look for negatives.

Yes, I'm negative because I don't see things your way. I occasionally choose to comment on the clouds rather than the silver lining. It's folk like me, who are prepared to state the truth who effect change.

I imagine you in Paris complaining about the shops closing early instead of going to a cafe for a coffee and a croissant and walking to see the Eiffel Tower.

Yes, that's it. Isn't it possible that Perths just, relatively speaking, shit and could be a whole lot better?

 

[placebo]

I gotta say, I used to be one of those defenders of Perth, but after traveling earlier in the year overseas for the first time in years, the problems here are abundantly clear. There is a great deal of potential, and not much is made of it.

High prices, over-regulation, backwards laws and I have to agree with the claim that we lack 'heart and soul'. There's no 'oomf' in Perth, no 'feel'. It's the epitome of an average city. It's not bad, it's liveable and comfortable...it's also just not very good. But it could be.

There's also little in the world more horrifying then driving out to certain suburbs only to be greeted with a 1000 homes looking the same. You can almost picture the short haircut of the father, the frumpy flowery dress of the early 30's wife, the snot nosed bastard children, the 2 cars, the pristine little lawn with one shitty tree and a few flowers. And everything has a feeling of 'grey'.

Still, I'm young, the potential is there, I hope like hell it's realised in the coming years.

 

[bunsen burner]

I went to a wedding in Peppy Grove recently (made a mistake being a Plaintiff lawyer) it was great to be at a place where everyone knows you - a thing I used to hate and one of the reasons I left

Welcome to the western suburbs of perth. I've never seen snobbery as bad as this anywhere else.

 

[bunsen burner]

It seems to have a decent number of good restaurants and bars, even if they are overpriced and the staff leave a bit to be desired. It has a nice outdoors lifestyle in summer. My father lives in West Perth, short walk from the CBD and Subiaco, and he seems to find plenty of options for dining out and cultural activities (WASO, etc).

Not really a great place to go clubbing, and the trading hours rules are a bit backward, but aside from that it seems fine.

I'm not into clubbing but those trading hours and lack of being able to find 30 bars in Subi open until 3 am is a major turn off.

If I lived in Subi I would want 30 bars/pubs, 10 of them not haunts of under 30s to just be able to nip up to with a mate and have 10 beers and go home.

Nothing doing. Just full of ****wits who think they are entitled.

 

[Lach72]

The suspect practises comment was a bit low. My apologies.

As for your bolded bit, Most people do raise kids and good parents do give up their own interests for a while. That is a compromise that people make in their lives.

What does living outside the norm mean? I have many many friends who would be considered by many to be bohemians. They live essentially in suburbia but do not sit in every night watching ACA or TT.

Your hatred of suburbia is partly understood, but I think it is almost obsessive. I went and had dinner at my in laws last night. Chilli mussells, grilled fish, all the trimmings and quality wine with good conversation. I actually call that a good night. The night before, I stayed home and watched Game of Thrones on tele. Another good night .

Also, I do not sit in a small bar congratulating myself on my sophistication. I enjoy them as an alternative to pubs, which I actually enjoy. My love of Clancy's in Fremantle is well known.

I acknowledge Perth's problems. Indeed, I started the thread to point out an issue, but I think a glass half full person such as myself will look for positives whereas you look for negatives.

I imagine you in Paris complaining about the shops closing early instead of going to a cafe for a coffee and a croissant and walking to see the Eiffel Tower.

Nicky, I have no racist friends. The most conservative person that I would call a friend is Lach72 !!!! You need new friends

Conservative my arse Jimbo

 

[JimDocker]

Conservative my arse Jimbo

That was my point Lachlan. You are a lefty and a progressive. I was just pointing out to Nicky that she needs to get better friends if all of her Perth friends are conservative racists !

 

[Gabbie]

Try living in Nth Qld. The Qld booze laws are a shocker, can't even buy booze in a supermarket YET.

 

[nicky]

That was my point Lachlan. You are a lefty and a progressive. I was just pointing out to Nicky that she needs to get better friends if all of her Perth friends are conservative racists !

No doubt there are exceptions to the rule but I'm confident in saying perthites are generally more conservative than say, melbournians.

 

[JimDocker]

I make a point of not spending time with people I want to. So I hang out with progressive, arty, bohemian type people .

Pretty sure that if I was to live in Melbourne, it would be in Fitzroy where similar people are to be found.

I generally do not socialise with any conservative people.

A guy I used to go to school with asked me to add him on FB recently. Reluctantly, I did as he was ok from what I remember then the day before Anzac Day, he put up a **** off we're full post on his page !!!!

I reckon Melbourne is the best city in Australia. I love it to bits and have as a regret the fact that I did not live there for a while when I was younger, so I have no issue with people spouting it's good points. When I was there 2 weeks ago, and was out on the town on Friday and Saturday nights, there were plenty of bogans and anti social activity. The thing is, I concentrated on going out and having a great time rather than worrying about it.

That is what I do in Perth too. I am not oblivious to negatives. I would just not rather dwell on them.

Question for E87. Do you ever go to gigs, festivals, comedy shows, plays etc when you are in Perth? This is a serious question and not a dig because as somebody that regularly goes out to acts of many types, I generally run out of babysitting credits or money quicker than I run out of things to do in Perth.

 

[JimDocker]

I guess I owe you another pint now Lachlan ?

 

[Eagle87]

I make a point of not spending time with people I want to. So I hang out with progressive, arty, bohemian type people .

Pretty sure that if I was to live in Melbourne, it would be in Fitzroy where similar people are to be found.

I generally do not socialise with any conservative people.

A guy I used to go to school with asked me to add him on FB recently. Reluctantly, I did as he was ok from what I remember then the day before Anzac Day, he put up a **** off we're full post on his page !!!!

I reckon Melbourne is the best city in Australia. I love it to bits and have as a regret the fact that I did not live there for a while when I was younger, so I have no issue with people spouting it's good points. When I was there 2 weeks ago, and was out on the town on Friday and Saturday nights, there were plenty of bogans and anti social activity. The thing is, I concentrated on going out and having a great time rather than worrying about it.

That is what I do in Perth too. I am not oblivious to negatives. I would just not rather dwell on them.

Question for E87. Do you ever go to gigs, festivals, comedy shows, plays etc when you are in Perth? This is a serious question and not a dig because as somebody that regularly goes out to acts of many types, I generally run out of babysitting credits or money quicker than I run out of things to do in Perth.

Yes, although I'm not in Perth often when the ones I might attend are on.

Again though you miss the point. Perth tries to do these things, as does Bunbury but it's not that one can't have a decent night, it's that the place is soulless and dead. I can walk around in mid-afternoon in some cities and they are just alive... Perth isn't... That flows through to everything it does ...

I can and do have good nights out all over the place, recently had a good night out in Barnsley (which as a Doncaster fan you should know)... Perth is a tougher place than most to find that good night out but that's only part of my issue. Your OP gave examples of the mentality that causes Perth to be what it is... Conservative, dead, soulless and a bit backward ... You seem to be saying "well yeah, but I can still have a good time here", mate people have been having good times, against the odds, in places like Myanmar and Zimbabwe, because we are people and we like good times with friends - that doesnt mean it cancels out criticism of the shittier places!

I'm simply pointing out that Perth is pretty ordinary as cities go. Your argument that it has the odd good pub, the odd decent show or that you can eat well and converse with good people - at your in-laws, doesn't address the general shitness of the city compared to (a) what it could be and (b) to genuinely interesting cities ....

 

[Silent Alarm]

18 year olds who say they are 'into' culture tend to be insufferable w***ers who are into surrounding themselves with other insufferable w***ers so that they can act like pretentious twats together.

Once again, you have no idea. Your average bogan that's been to Bali and done a 2 week Contiki tour of Western Europe has more to offer a cultural debate than you do.

I don't resent anyone for wanting to move cities, visit new places, experience new cultures etc. but I don't rate the opinion of an 18 year old (from Albany) who thinks Perth is 'culturally bland' and a 'waste of his young adult life'.

I'd love to see what you're like in real life. Honestly.

Continually acting dismissive just paints you as a nagging, typical Perth-ite. You'd sooner complain about something than accept it. Melbourne, admittedly, is full of w***ers. But I'd rather the pretentious pricks of London and New York to the boring white collars and FIFOs of Perth.

Do you honestly think Perth is a good place to live as a 22-year old? I'd be severely disappointed to be here then.