Improvements in 2010

[tigris]

Have just watched my 3rd game so far in 2010 and I know it's only nab cup/challenge, but it's fairly obvious we are sticking with the same general game plan as we had last year. With the loss of Fevola, people ask where are goals will come from, some reply with stuff like "hey the bulldogs never had a key forward and they go alright". But we haven't changed our game plan at all, we are just trying to replace him with setanta or lachie.

So I guess, if that is the deal, if we are just trying to replace the key position forward and stick to the same plan, I ask you; looking at our best 22 side by side with last years best 22, where have we improved?

Has the back 6 improved? If Waite plays down there, then definitely. Bower and Jamo will be better than last year, not much but better.

Has the midfield improved? Lost Stevo, gained McLean and Lucas (who might not play yet). Mitch has improved, Murph has had surgery could take a while to get back to form. Tough to say whether this years midfield is an improvement on last years or not.

Has the forward line improved? Lost Fev, gained Lachie. Yarran should hopefully play more games. Hopefully can move Waite down. No change in game plan coming inside 50 and I would suggest there is definitely no improvement here.

Had a long time to think about it all on the way home tonight, and I just wonder what everyone else's thoughts are on any improvements across the board? Cos I don't see any and it's very disappointing. Please prove me wrong though, pretty please.

 

[KOUTA 43]

Too early to say yet.

I was at the game too.

My only concern is coaching. I don't think Ratten is getting the most out of this list. With his matchday tactics/gameplan.

Our list on paper is a definite top 8. Time will tell.

 

[juddsentant517]

Have just watched my 3rd game so far in 2010 and I know it's only nab cup/challenge, but it's fairly obvious we are sticking with the same general game plan as we had last year. With the loss of ******o, people ask where are goals will come from, some reply with stuff like "hey the bulldogs never had a key forward and they go alright". But we haven't changed our game plan at all, we are just trying to replace him with setanta or lachie.

So I guess, if that is the deal, if we are just trying to replace the key position forward and stick to the same plan, I ask you; looking at our best 22 side by side with last years best 22, where have we improved?

Has the back 6 improved? If Waite plays down there, then definitely. Bower and Jamo will be better than last year, not much but better.

Has the midfield improved? Lost Stevo, gained McLean and Lucas (who might not play yet). Mitch has improved, Murph has had surgery could take a while to get back to form. Tough to say whether this years midfield is an improvement on last years or not.

Has the forward line improved? Lost Fev, gained Lachie. Yarran should hopefully play more games. Hopefully can move Waite down. No change in game plan coming inside 50 and I would suggest there is definitely no improvement here.

Had a long time to think about it all on the way home tonight, and I just wonder what everyone else's thoughts are on any improvements across the board? Cos I don't see any and it's very disappointing. Please prove me wrong though, pretty please.

I don't think its that simple mate. For starters, Challenge matches/Nab Cup matches should only be focused on two things IMO, player development and fitness. I honestly believe,the only thing that the practise matches have an effect on, is the fringe/new players, trying to make a name for themselves. Game Plans and overall team analysis isn;t really relevant. The last time we presented our full game plan in the NAB cup, we were worked out by round 1. So to be honest, i don;t think the coaching staff has pulled out all the stops yet.

 

[KOUTA 43]

Fair point. Only question is: if you have a 'tweaked' gameplan when do you bring it out? When can you see if it works? If you don't in an intraclub or a NAB Challenge?.. Leave it to round 1? Pretty risky.

 

[GoBlues!]

Have just watched my 3rd game so far in 2010 and I know it's only nab cup/challenge, but it's fairly obvious we are sticking with the same general game plan as we had last year. With the loss of ******o, people ask where are goals will come from, some reply with stuff like "hey the bulldogs never had a key forward and they go alright". But we haven't changed our game plan at all, we are just trying to replace him with setanta or lachie.

Has the forward line improved? Lost Fev, gained Lachie. Yarran should hopefully play more games. Hopefully can move Waite down. No change in game plan coming inside 50 and I would suggest there is definitely no improvement here.

Had a long time to think about it all on the way home tonight, and I just wonder what everyone else's thoughts are on any improvements across the board? Cos I don't see any and it's very disappointing. Please prove me wrong though, pretty please.

After playing with a dominant Key FF for 6 or so years, it will take some time for the team to adjust playing with a different fwd set up. I was talking to a keen StKilda supporter who said that after Lockett left the Saints it took them about a half a season for the team to readjust their mindset/gameplan.

There are positive signs. Henderson is very mobile across the HF line and will get better. We should leave Setanta at FF and allow him to build his confidence - he needs to see himself as a key forward and back himself to shoot for goal and not play on everytime.

As for Waite, I think we need to be patient whether he plays forward or back. Most players coming back from serious injury take a bit of time to get back to their best.

I think we may slip back a bit particularly in the first half of the year and then hopefully improve in the second half of the year.

 

[thylacine60]

Too early to say yet.

I was at the game too.

My only concern is coaching. I don't think Ratten is getting the most out of this list. With his matchday tactics/gameplan.

Our list on paper is a definite top 8. Time will tell.

Dis.

 

[tigris]

As for Waite, I think we need to be patient whether he plays forward or back. Most players coming back from serious injury take a bit of time to get back to their best.

I normally watch knee reco returners pretty closely, to see if they a) lose confidence in their mobilty or b) end up even more tentative when hitting a contest. I saw Waite hit at least 3 packs harder than anyone today, and chased down to spoil from about 20 meters with amazing closing speed. Personally I've not seen anyone so confident when coming back from a knee as he looks... Watch Raines play for a quarter and you'll know exactly what I mean.

 

[thylacine60]

I normally watch knee reco returners pretty closely, to see if they a) lose confidence in their mobilty or b) end up even more tentative when hitting a contest. I saw Waite hit at least 3 packs harder than anyone today, and chased down to spoil from about 20 meters with amazing closing speed. Personally I've not seen anyone so confident when coming back from a knee as he looks... Watch Raines play for a quarter and you'll know exactly what I mean.

Maybe Hird, but great point. Fab to see him still able to lift off unlike say Kouta. He makes such a difference The Swingman.

 

[tigris]

Maybe Hird, but great point. Fab to see him still able to lift off unlike say Kouta. He makes such a difference The Swingman.

I wasn't aware Hird had a knee reco? He certainly had a face reco, but that certainly wouldnt affect mobility or confidence.... on the field anyway

 

[Stig O'Hara]

All is good.

 

[starchamber]

Have just watched my 3rd game so far in 2010 and I know it's only nab cup/challenge, but it's fairly obvious we are sticking with the same general game plan as we had last year. With the loss of Fevola, people ask where are goals will come from, some reply with stuff like "hey the bulldogs never had a key forward and they go alright". But we haven't changed our game plan at all, we are just trying to replace him with setanta or lachie.

So I guess, if that is the deal, if we are just trying to replace the key position forward and stick to the same plan, I ask you; looking at our best 22 side by side with last years best 22, where have we improved?

Has the back 6 improved? If Waite plays down there, then definitely. Bower and Jamo will be better than last year, not much but better.

Has the midfield improved? Lost Stevo, gained McLean and Lucas (who might not play yet). Mitch has improved, Murph has had surgery could take a while to get back to form. Tough to say whether this years midfield is an improvement on last years or not.

Has the forward line improved? Lost Fev, gained Lachie. Yarran should hopefully play more games. Hopefully can move Waite down. No change in game plan coming inside 50 and I would suggest there is definitely no improvement here.

Had a long time to think about it all on the way home tonight, and I just wonder what everyone else's thoughts are on any improvements across the board? Cos I don't see any and it's very disappointing. Please prove me wrong though, pretty please.

Our Ruck and defense will improve depending whose the back 6.The midfield will be either a little weaker without Stevens or same while the forward line will be weaker.

 

[Weiterbot23]

We will struggle to get past adelaide under Ratten, they are too well drilled, our unaccountable fast style game (which is great to watch) just won't cut it.

WTF was with putting numbers behind the ball when we had a gale at AMMI last year. It was almost asif Ratten sent his ******ed twin brother to coach.

 

[Alice]

Too early to say yet.

I was at the game too.

My only concern is coaching. I don't think Ratten is getting the most out of this list. With his matchday tactics/gameplan.

Our list on paper is a definite top 8. Time will tell.

Why is it??
I think this is the problem a lot of Carlton supporters have - they see our list as top 8 or top 4. Our list has to be compared (honestly) with the other teams and based on what the players HAVE achieved, not on what we'd like them to achieve.
Everyone wants to rate our midfielders yet only Judd would get a game for the premiers. People rate Simpson and talk of him as Judd's replacement as captain for the first 3 games yet he's inconsistent at best and has glaring disposal issues. Murphy and Gibbs are developing yet have not really hit the upper echelon of AFL. Have a look at the teams people have selected for rd 1 or the best team for 2010 - most have Mclean in the centre. What is this based on apart from wishing him to be that good??
I see each year as a building year and wait hoping to see growth in the players that takes them to the next level. I think "we're coming", but we're not there yet. BTW - i'm not convinced Ratts is the answer but he's only working with what he's got!!

 

[Sublime]

I find it interesting so many people saying our midfield will be weaker with Stevens not there anymore considering how much shit he copped last season. So many people wanted him dropped for lack of accountability and whatnot, he's been replaced by a more accountable player in McLean, yet we're weaker? What we lose from Stevens in one area, i think we gain in another, so i'd call it a push for now.

 

[The Toad]

I find it interesting so many people saying our midfield will be weaker with Stevens not there anymore considering how much shit he copped last season. So many people wanted him dropped for lack of accountability and whatnot, he's been replaced by a more accountable player in McLean, yet we're weaker? What we lose from Stevens in one area, i think we gain in another, so i'd call it a push for now.

Nice post Suby. Like it.

 

[DarkTint]

Natural progression in the list will mean we won't have a 'shocking' year.

First few rounds are very vital for us this year. Not so much win/loss but we face some decent competition. Will be no better test for our new game plan/structures than against top 4 calibre teams for 4 premiership points.

Still not panicking yet. We had more scoring shots than the crows yesterday.
Fair they were missing a fair few blokes but half the list seems to be on the interchange for these nab games so I doubt most if any of our top 22 blokes played 100% game time yesterday. (Unless was required fitness wise).

 

[son of dominator]

was at the game yesterday and one thing I didn't see (but hope to see in the home and away season) is our hard running when we transistion from defence to attack. There were a few times yesterday when we had a fast break opportunity from defence and instead of running hard to provide targets up forward we all seem to bunch up around 70 meters out the player with the ball had to stop and hold play up. This happened often last year and if we are to improve this year without Fev we need to get the ball into the forward line fast through accurate passing and really hard gut running

 

[Dude Lebowski]

Trouble is, you can't lose arguable your most important player and expect to bounce back straight away. Last year we were a kick off playing the Bullies who we had the wood on and who knows. This year if we still had said player, then I would be expecting top four. As it is, I'm very much doubting we'll make top eight.

Sure improvement should come from the midfield with Gibbs, Murph and a few of the others stepping up with more experience. Thought our back line was underrated last year, when we leaked goals it was more to do with lack of midfield pressure. The back line should be a little more settled with Jamo back for the whole season. Also Geelong, Bulldogs and to a lesser extent St Kilda all have sublime skills, we are very woeful in this regard. Unless some of our players improve over night, I doubt this will change.

Forward line will be a different story altogether, everyone is pinning their hopes on a recruit who's played a handful of games, a guy who's just had a knee reco, an Irishmen lol and a few short people. Yeah we may be able to hang in there in a few low scoring slogs, but doubt will struggle be to kick goals in a hurry if needed.

Of course we will be more unpredictable, that's only because our players will have no idea what we are doing, not just the opposition. People also talk about these teams with no distinct forward, Geelong are and will always be the exception, they are just a gun team all round. Every team that challenge this year will have a Franklin, Reiwolt etc, etc. That's why I have never understood the St. Kilda analogy. Yeah the adjusted after Lockett left, but they were just a good team anyway. To this day, I still have no doubt they would have won the premiership had he still been playing for them. As it turns out, they won stuff all and faded away as quickly as they came and he went to Sydney and elevated their team to much more than they were capable of.

Hopefully I'm wrong and we come out and surprise everyone, but I very much doubt it.

 

[Carlton_Fullstop]

Why is it??
I think this is the problem a lot of Carlton supporters have - they see our list as top 8 or top 4. Our list has to be compared (honestly) with the other teams and based on what the players HAVE achieved, not on what we'd like them to achieve.
Everyone wants to rate our midfielders yet only Judd would get a game for the premiers. People rate Simpson and talk of him as Judd's replacement as captain for the first 3 games yet he's inconsistent at best and has glaring disposal issues. Murphy and Gibbs are developing yet have not really hit the upper echelon of AFL. Have a look at the teams people have selected for rd 1 or the best team for 2010 - most have Mclean in the centre. What is this based on apart from wishing him to be that good??
I see each year as a building year and wait hoping to see growth in the players that takes them to the next level. I think "we're coming", but we're not there yet. BTW - i'm not convinced Ratts is the answer but he's only working with what he's got!!

Total player votes, 3 2 1
Gary Ablett (Geel) 8 1 4 30
Chris Judd (Ca) 5 2 3 22
Lenny Hayes (StK) 6 - 2 20
Simon Black (BL) 5 1 2 19
Jonathan Brown (BL) 3 4 2 19
Nick Dal Santo (StK) 4 2 1 17
Adam Goodes (Syd) 3 3 2 17
Joel Selwood (Geel) 3 2 3 16
Bryce Gibbs (Ca) 3 2 2 15
Marc Murphy (Ca) 3 1 4 15
Nick Riewoldt (StK) 1 4 4 15
Matthew Boyd (WB) 3 2 1 14
Brendon Goddard (StK) 4 - 2 14

 

[HARKER]

Interestingly that after only a few practice games, and we are already questioning Ratten.
Fair or unfair?

Firstly, I must announce that I love Ratten the man.
Secondly, I hope to god his tactics or lack of them have been built up on from last year.
Let's let this last few weeks slide, but you'd want to think we have developed some ways of combating respective opponents, hidden away in the closet, waiting to be unleashed.

I attest to only having seen one of the NAB cup/challenge matches but some common threads are becoming quite resounding through many posts here.
I do believe we have a back six that will repel plenty of opponents forward forays (preferably with Gibbs one of that six, but let's put that away for now), but we must see a quick run and carry game emanating from CHB line through to our forwards.
The kick in from defence MUST be thought out better than from what we hear occurring regularly already this year and witnessed on too many occasions last year, and taken by a kicker that can do the job on a regular and confident basis (Gibbs?)

Conversely to some, I'm not concerned about any perceived lack of personnel we have, but I am concerned to think we don't give the blokes on the park the license to back themselves and take the game on.

I won't shed tears for losses due to us running forward of centre, but I will lose my TV set, if we have to witness chipping in the back line resulting in goals to the opposition.

Come on Ratts: Go, "All in"

 

[mediumsizered]

I don't think its that simple mate. For starters, Challenge matches/Nab Cup matches should only be focused on two things IMO, player development and fitness. I honestly believe,the only thing that the practise matches have an effect on, is the fringe/new players, trying to make a name for themselves. Game Plans and overall team analysis isn;t really relevant. The last time we presented our full game plan in the NAB cup, we were worked out by round 1. So to be honest, i don;t think the coaching staff has pulled out all the stops yet.

Spot on. Yesterday's game was probably a good example of this with a number of Adelaide's lesser lights having good games. As a result of injury Adelaide will have places up for grab in their Round 1 team, meaning there is a number of the younger players vying for positions in the 22. As a contrast, our 22 for Round 1 is mostly set in concrete, hence the less opportunities given to our younger players this pre-season.

There has been some experimentation with those who are vying for the limited spots in the team eg the 4 rucks getting a run & Anderson & Browne perhaps competing for Army's spot should he not be match ready for Round 1, but realistically our pre-season games have been about match time for the players that need it most & doing the best we can to steer clear of injuries.

 

[Alice]

Total player votes, 3 2 1
Gary Ablett (Geel) 8 1 4 30
Chris Judd (Ca) 5 2 3 22
Lenny Hayes (StK) 6 - 2 20
Simon Black (BL) 5 1 2 19
Jonathan Brown (BL) 3 4 2 19
Nick Dal Santo (StK) 4 2 1 17
Adam Goodes (Syd) 3 3 2 17
Joel Selwood (Geel) 3 2 3 16
Bryce Gibbs (Ca) 3 2 2 15
Marc Murphy (Ca) 3 1 4 15
Nick Riewoldt (StK) 1 4 4 15
Matthew Boyd (WB) 3 2 1 14
Brendon Goddard (StK) 4 - 2 14

Congrats Champ, I feel sorry for you!

 

[BlueTongue]

I won't shed tears for losses due to us running forward of centre, but I will lose my TV set, if we have to witness chipping in the back line resulting in goals to the opposition.

Come on Ratts: Go, "All in"

I'm so glad someone else shares my pain.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Interestingly that after only a few practice games, and we are already questioning Ratten.
Fair or unfair?

Come on Ratts: Go, "All in"

At Leederville Oval I looked at the papers in Ratt's hand and one definately was titled "plan B" so I think Ratts knows what he is up to contrary to what BF believes.

 

[HBF]

Watching the game at PP on Friday afternoon, someone made a very good point. Having Fev in the side certainly straightened us up, meaning we didn't go via the cape to get the ball inside 50, which is what we did on Friday. Perhaps that was more to do with Adelaide's rolling zone, than our "game plan".

We just seem to be making silly mistakes, and until we can reduce these errors, we are constantly going to make mistakes that really, a good side doesn't.